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funks

Would this piss you off?

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This is starting to sound like high school and we can analyse this to hell and back, now we have the "failure to communicate"excuse which BTW always reminds me of the Wardens statement in the Cool Hand Luke movie.


A long time ago someone wrote a letter to the editor in Parachutist that basically said if you don't like whats going on at the DZ don't continue coming back and bitch and whine. If your not happy just stay home!

That kind of a response tells me that the law of supply and demand is in that DZO's favor. Just look at the level of customer service the Tandems and AFF customers get.

IMO the purpose of Mr funks message has been achieved.

R.I.P.

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Dan..question for you...if you would have landed way off do you think a lot of people would have gone out looking for you? I have a feeling the answer would be YES. In my mind that is wrong. Just because that is your home DZ but not mine does that justify that fact...Not to me it doesnt.



I really don't know what you're expecting.

In my 4 years of jumping, I have NEVER had "lot" of people come get find me. Usualy just one. The only time I've ever seen more then one car leave to get someone, is when a LOT of people land off. Odd how it works that way.

If you ever make up to my DZ, and you land off... Somebody will probably come get you. I really hope you don't complain about it when it happens.

_Am
__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

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funks said:

What if my buddy did not go looking for me? I may be wrong but I have a very strong feeling no one would have. Dan..question for you...if you would have landed way off do you think a lot of people would have gone out looking for you? I have a feeling the answer would be YES. In my mind that is wrong. Just because that is your home DZ but not mine does that justify that fact...Not to me it doesnt. I never expected the plane to shut down..and you say "everything that happened was essetially my own fault" Sorry dude, but thats a pretty poor attitude...Hey, next time I see someone femur themself I will be sure to take the same attitude.***

Last reply, then I'm done.

Dude, someone DID come looking for you. And yes, if when I asked if someone had gone looking for you the reply I got was, "no," then I would have tried to find you.

I don't think I need to reply to the part about someone femuring in. It doesn't even make sense.

- Dan G

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What if my buddy did not go looking for me?



But he did, therefore, no need for anyone else to.

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you say "everything that happened was essetially my own fault" Sorry dude, but thats a pretty poor attitude...Hey, next time I see someone femur themself I will be sure to take the same attitude.



If someone femurs it is their own fault. If you decide to jump out of an airplane anything and everything that occurs after that point is your own responsibility. If you can't accept that, then don't jump out of a plane. The majority of jumpers have this attitude and I respect them for it because of it's contrast to the rest of society.

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>Ever hear of the "don't borrow gear" rule in skydiving?

Actually its "Don't borrow different gear". Changing one thing per jump is'nt a big deal, change 2 things and its worse, change 3 or more and you might want to rethink the jump. BOC vs pull out is one change, different canopy could be another and first camera jump all in the same jump for instance would be bad. Its perfectly safe to borrow others gear provided its only minor differences compared to yor rig. Different canopy? No problem.

>If the spot sucks FOR ANY REASON!, hit the switch and do another pass. It's your money, you shouldn't have to pull at 6K to get back to the DZ.

Not all DZ's will do second passes, and even then some of them will only do it if more then a certian % of the load is yet to jump. "Hit the Switch" at WFFC and prepare to ride the plane down since those planes are'nt about to try and do a go around. Last solo out the door and the spot is just a little too long and there are plenty of outs? Open high and deal with it. If you are the second group out and the spot sucks, then call go around... but use common sense and work with the pilot/DZ to minimize extra go arounds.

Jumping in the midwest spoiled me. Look around and there are very few places that are not outs in one way or another. I'll take just about any spot that I can make it back to the DZ on since if I see I'll be short I've got tons of landing area anyways.

>You were open at 13K!!? and you didn't have enough altitude to get back to the DZ under a 280 SQ ft canopy?!!

I think it could be read better as since he opened at 13k he got blown past the DZ. Normally for CRW/ Clear and pulls in 25-30 knot uppers I'll take the spot about 3 miles out. Stronger uppers means an even longer spot. A few weeks ago with extremely strong 55-60 knot uppers they took the spot over 9 miles out and did a cross country and made it back to the DZ.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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I gotta agree with Quade on this one. Take a breather and chalk it up to an experience.



Maybe I am spoiled then. At my home DZ, whenever ANYBODY landed off, it was a priority to find them no matter what. I have gone out looking for people that i had never spoken word one too. I think it is pretty sad that some peoples attitudes are "just deal with it" Sorry to say but that is how people get hurt. It is one thing if someone lands 100 yards off. But for a jumper to land 2 1/2 miles off and not one person be concerned is pretty pathetic in my mind.



Simple then. Take your business elsewhere.

There, see how easy that was ?

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Simple then. Take your business elsewhere.

There, see how easy that was ?



Yep, Screw it, if a DZ doesnt do something right, fuck em. Go somewhere else. I am sure all the DZO's in the world would really love it if that is how everyone decided to act. I guess the underlying message here is DO NOT EXPECT ANYTHING FROM ANY DZ UNLESS IT IS YOUR HOME DZ AND YOU KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT.

Sad, but appears to be True.

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Your post pisses me off.

Most of the hangar watched your descent behind a tree line into what looked like farmer McNasty's and a car was sent (not sure if this was your friend or not) but came back later saying they couldn't find you, moments later some one said they had spotted you walking back adjacent to the hangar.

Manifest was notified that you had landed off, we knew the general vicinity were you landed, someone went to go find you. As far I can tell the DZ is not at fault.

In my opinion your own actions flag safety concerns.

-The instructor told me you did not want to go over emergency procedures in the training harness.

-When you left your goggles on the first ride up you told the instructor you wanted to jump anyway.

-On the second ride up I heard your 2nd instructor of the day ask you how stable your sit was you said "very stable". I watched you exit and then immediately cork.

-You made no effort to speed up your rate of decent when under canopy (and the Hop and Pop at 13k behind us did not report any problems with high winds)

The only thing you should be faulting the DZ for is letting you freefly that P.O.S. Vector with the pinflap that doesn't fully close. Why you decided that that rig was freefly friendly is beyond me.

I'm sorry you had a miserable experience but suggest you look to youself before you try to justify the cause of your frustrations on my DZ.

-PvtPyle

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Took 45 minutes due to winds...couldnt spiral down because the spot wasnt that hot and I wanted every chance to make it back to the DZ



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The spot was not that bad. If I was under my 170 it would not have been an issue. However, as everyone knows, the winds at 13K are a hell of a lot stronger than at 2500...the second I was open I had the wind slowly pushing me back.



If you are backing up in high winds, flying into them is not going to help. Front risers or spiral to get out of the high winds. Kallend did some calculations in the swooping and cc forum that you might find helpful.

Sounds like the DZ did send a car to go after you and you weren’t aware that it did. Chalk it up to a simple misunderstanding and move on.

Derek

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Hey there,

First off, I am curious as to why you waited a week and a half to discuss this subject. Anyway...

I was on the sunset load. As we were waiting for the otter to come down, I distinctly remember hearing quite a buzz about the "guy who had to ride the plane down because he forgot his goggles" (lack of goggles is just a good reason to lead a tracking dive, btw.;)) who had a premature opening at 13k. As I recall, the otter pilot was taking a lot of extra time coming down because you were open so high. There were people who were watching out for you, including the entire load that went up after yours. Most of the dz was well aware of what you did and was keeping track of what you were doing. You were under canopy for 25 minutes, at most.

Did the toggles not work? Could you not spiral through the faster moving air at altitude to get to the lower, slower stuff? I know that I personally wouldn't want--with loads going up every 20 minutes or so--to be hanging out under canopy, especially around opening altitudes on a big, ass canopy.

I find your some of your later statements to be completely unfounded and nearly slanderous. I am out at that dz almost every weekend. My truck has picked up probably around 50 off-field jumpers in the last two years. I don't care who the fuck they are or where they normally jump. If I see a canopy which isn't gonna make it back, I am notifying manifest of my intentions on my way to the truck. I am just one of many who do this. Thanks to some very heads-up skywatchers out there, I have been able to get out early enough to meet people at their out as they land.

I remember an off landing at sunset several months back by a jumper who had never been to this dz before. The jumper landed on the other side of the highway behind a treeline in an area with few outs. We had six or seven vehicles of people with cell phones and walkie-talkies out looking and yelling for her, well into dark. As it turned out, the jumper landed safely, but didn't go to the road. Instead, she beelined through the woods toward the dz. Point being, nobody knew where she was gonna end up so we coordinated a larger "search" party.

People saw where you were going. An adequate number of people went out to get you. They assumed the responsibility of getting you without knowledge of what they were getting into in order to get to where you were landing. If they didn't feel they could handle it without resorting to walking, they should not have volunteered to be your pickup and let someone else go. Being on the load, I don't know where you landed, but from the descriptions here, I gather you landed at McNasty's about one mile or so away from the dz. McNasty's farm is gated and fenced. The pickup point is generally known to be up the driveway to the road. (I think I recall something in the SIM about heading toward roads if you land off????) Going through the fields to get there, while lots of fun in 4-wd, is a waste of energy.

I guess you feel slighted. Sorry for that. Next time, we'll shut down the DZ and ALL come looking for YOU. We'll call the fire department and put the cessna up. I got a friend with some good hunting dogs too, so next time yer down, lemme know so I can pick a few up.;) Do you need anything else? Warm towels? Kleenex?:P

l8r,

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

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OMG! Your post is great! I think I peed I laughed so hard. Remind me not to land off around you if we ever jump together. I do not want some Red-tick barking after me chasing me through the woods;).

You could however leave the warm towels out and just bring me coffee. Lots of milk and sugar. Better yet, a margarita. Or even a senorita.:P

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Just wanted to add that I was just told you landed about two or three minutes before we, on the sunset load, landed. There was a two-wheel drive truck with people (including a TM) and radios en route to pick you up before you were below the other side of the treeline. I cannot say why they did not make it to you. You'd have to ask them. Further, you were not in the air for 45 minutes. You were in the air for 20 minutes, at most. Then again, what would any story be without some embellishment?;)

I am sure there'll be lots of folks at the dz this weekend who'd love to talk to you, if you wanna discuss your grievances further. You might be surprised how friendly the folks there actually are, being the place is a club, not a DZO op. Maybe, just maybe, we can all learn some lessons from your experience. Otherwise, like Freaky said, be happy you get to jump another day. It's totally your choice where you do it...

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

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--Jumping a Goliath-378 (student gear at my DZ as I hadn't bought my own gear yet).
--~my 30th jump

Why were you jumpin' a tandem canopy?:ph34r:



'Cause I like the purdy light blue, sky blue color they came in. :P

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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Yep, Screw it, if a DZ doesnt do something right, fuck em. Go somewhere else. I am sure all the DZO's in the world would really love it if that is how everyone decided to act. I guess the underlying message here is DO NOT EXPECT ANYTHING FROM ANY DZ UNLESS IT IS YOUR HOME DZ AND YOU KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT.

Sad, but appears to be True.


***

Hummm...
Could it be they're trying to tell YOU something?! :ph34r:











~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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yes, it was a 45 minute ride because it was a student 288....did i say i was pissed about landing off? No. I brought up the issue of no one coming out to look for me. That is a pure safety issue...what if I was in a tree with a broken back? What if i was in a field unconcious?



I have done a C&P from 22,000 with a 370 sq. ft. canopy and it did not take me 45 min. to land. Do you think your anger might have distorted your time reference?
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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C&P at 22k? Did you have bail out oxygen? That sounds like one hullava ride. :)

I do just want to say this to the general thread. I think this thread has run it's course, and prety much anything that can be said has been said. I'd just hope people won't keep beating a dead horse, this whole thread kinda has a weird vibe to it now. Just disecting this more won't really fix anything.

All this frightens and confuses me. Can't we all just get along?:| :P

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The one and only time I landed off was my own fault. After a nice training jump with my very cute JM, this was about my level 7, I pulled low and immediately realized I was not going to make it back. As per my training, I found a spot and stuck to it. The midwest is a wonderful place. I still had a one way radio and heard one of the JMs say "come back fast J". I knew someone saw me and knew I was o.k. While this situation differs from yours (I knew they knew I was o.k), no one came for me. After the first row of corn, I was a little less pissed. Why? Because I had a nice long walk back to the dz to think about what had just happened, how I reacted to it, and other possible outcomes. I wish you would have taken that time to reflect, be grateful, and learn. While being pissed off, one rarely learns anything. Be good and learn:ph34r:

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This was recent I take it. In many parts of the counrty it is extremly cold. 45 minutes suspended under a canopy and land 2.5 out on a frozen or marshy type field. Your situation has improven minimally. I'd be pissed, and be grateful I am alive unhurt and have all my digits. Talking to the S&TA and the DZO might help them realize some issues that need to be brought up. However with that said, If i came out to jump all weekend, and some yahoo comes out and lands out then it is NOT my responsibility to look for them. But that would make me not a nice person and I would go look for him. Knowing that my car is probably going to be warmer that the hanger ;)!

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Yes that would piss me off. I am usually one of many that go looking for people. One hand washes the other right?

Well here is one for you....I was out looking for someone who landed about 2 miles out after tracking away during a 16 way. I had a radio from the DZ and my cell phone. I was racing through the trails in my truck pinned into a dead end that I had to back out about 100 yards....I was out for a good 20-30 minutes when I finally called the DZ on cell phone since no one was answering the radio, to tell them that I just can't find him. They proceeded to laugh and say that the guy got back a while ago. >:( I did not particularly think that was cool. I laughed about it later but at the time I was steamed. At least I got to do some off roading in an area that I would not have been allowed into any other time. B|

Blue Skies

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