peek 20 #1 January 28, 2004 I'm absolutely sure this one won't be controversial or cause a flame war... Yeh, right. This is a question about your preference as to when you dirt dive when you are jumping with a load organizer. This question is oriented to those of you who jump with a group and have someone "organize" it. It is not to ask those who are load organizers how they do it. (I'm not ignoring those of you who do, but I'm looking for the regular jumper's opinion of how they prefer to be "handled".) Method A, let's call this the more traditional way. 1. Tell everyone to meet for the dirt dive with jumpsuits. 2. Dirt dive. 3. Tell everyone to meet back with gear on XX minutes before final call to go over it again with gear on. 4. Go to the boarding area. Method B. My thoughts are that it is easier and more efficient to meet _once_ before going to the boarding area, that way both the LO and the prompt jumpers don't have to wait for stragglers _twice_. 1. Meet xx minutes before the final call with gear completely on. 2. Dirt dive. 3. Go to the boarding area. (Method B assumes the LO knows how long it will take to dirt dive considering the complexity and size of the skydive.) Other notes: I use Method A at the WFFC because it seems to work OK there. Most people I jump with there are eager to crank the jumps out, and they don't usually mess around. Not so at the local DZ. It seems like there are always stragglers no matter how you do it. I'm just trying to figure out how to minimize their effect without being a dictator and scolding those who are not prompt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #2 January 28, 2004 I'd prefer method A. If its a complicated dive, it gives a bit of time in bteween dirt dives for it to sink in during persoanl time, and if you still have an issue, or remembered something incoreclty, there is still a opportunity to fix it...Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #3 January 28, 2004 Well, first off, I am not part of organized skydives, so my opinion isn't what you're looking for, but i'm giving it anyhow... Method "B" is probably what i'd choose. Gives more time for socializing and screwing off But, like I said, I am not part of organized skydives, so I really have no idea what kind of planning it takes to make it work out. Good luck with whatever your goal is. Lighten up a bit If your jumps aren't working due to a couple people not getting there on time to dirt dive, just let them know that even though you like jumping with them, if they aren't able to make the dirt dive(s?), you'll have to plan the jump without them on it. Simple as that. Some people just aren't as serious as others... maybe they'll form their own group,... or become freeflyers jmo fwiw ymmv Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #4 January 28, 2004 I like method "A." It allows everybody to think through the skydive, then forget pieces, then get those pieces back in their brains. I've also found that when I'm jumping with a group that first dirt dive brings us together, then we sort of hang out for the 10-30 minutes before the loading call. That's not to say we ALL hang out together EVERY time, but rather that the first dirt dive gives the players a focus and 'sense of being' as a group. I agree it's tough to keep a large group together between the first and second dirt dive, and there are always stragglers. I wouldn't suggest yelling, but perhaps mentioning to the offenders quietly that the group was waiting. If the same people keep missing the dirt dives then try placing them in non-critical positions, or dirt dive without them and then say...sorry, maybe next time. If I'm being organized, or doing the organizing, it always helps to leave the first dirt dive with a rough idea of when we will meet again. It also helps to have a group name such as "Gary's Big Way." While you are at it, make sure the manifest calls can be heard at all points on the DZ. Tom BuchananTom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigM 2 #5 January 28, 2004 "A" for me too, please. Unless EVERYONE on the load is HIGHLY skilled, and/or is familiar with jumping with all others on the group, a second run thru always helps. Also, if there is an issue and someone decides to stand down for that jump, or the planned jump evolves into something a little different that what was originally planned, then you still have time to recruit another jumper. Blue 111- Jeff "When I die, I want to go like my grandmother, who died peacefully in her sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in her car." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydvrz 0 #6 January 28, 2004 I do a lot of jumps with organizers - I much prefer method A, even if *I* don't need a refresher, it helps keep the jump fresh in everyone elses mind. Doing a final runthrough in jumpsuits and rigs helps a lot when jumping with strangers. It would be a lot harder finding my slot without. ---------------------- I'll think of a really cool and witty signature later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #7 January 28, 2004 Method "A" is preferred and what I've experienced. Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eeneR 1 #8 January 28, 2004 Definatly "A"She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway." eeneR TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WILDBILLAQR 0 #9 January 28, 2004 Method "A" works best for me. It also helps newer jumpers learn what they need to be doing, starting in the door though break-off.---------------------------------------------- "Thats not smoke, thats BUCKEYE!!" AQR#3,CWR#49 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #10 January 28, 2004 I guess it depends on what the skill/confidence level of your group is. I am one of those people that would be MORE than happy with plan "B" beause I don't really need to waste my time talking a lot about a less-than-extremely-technical skydive. Show me my slot and I will be there....period. Still, everyone on your skydive is not going to have my 23 years experience, so you can really only advance as fast as your slowest learner. If you are working around a slower learner, then option "A" is your best bet. Rushing someone in a plan "B" scenario is just begging for a brainlock-infested zoo dive. That said, if I prefer to start out with a new group at the beginning of the day in mode "A", then, if the talent is there and people are getting pissed at un-needed delays, simply switch to mode "B". Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #11 January 28, 2004 Method A allows stragglers fewer excuses. However, if we are on a short call, I am quite happy with method B. Just tell me my slot and I will be there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmpnkramer 0 #12 January 28, 2004 Method "A" is definitely better. It gives the organizer time to evaluate the individuals and ask people their preference on exit. Then the dive can be built for success. You are always going to have slackers. You just have to tell the the deal. Hell I have been guilty of it myself. QuoteSome people just aren't as serious as others... maybe they'll form their own group,... or become freeflyers Yeah because freeflyers don't organize anything. Just look at the center of parachutist 'January' That did not require any organization at all. Oh yeah you have to be a certain skill level to be on an organized dive. Laters, .The REAL KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER! "HESITATION CAUSES DEATH!!!" "Be Slow to Fall into Friendship; but when Thou Art in, Continue Firm & Constant." - SOCRATES Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #13 January 28, 2004 Method A. If they don't want to show up for the dirt dive, then cut them off that skydive. It is the only way people will learn. It is very inconsiderate to the rest of the group to be late to a dirt dive. If you use method B you have to be certain everyone will actually show up for the dirt dive with enough time to get though it and through it well JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmpnkramer 0 #14 January 28, 2004 I would have to agree since I have been on several organized loads where much of the time is wasted with Diarrhea of the Mouth instead of the actual planning of the dive. When the experience is there then Plan "B" should be easily acceptable for a working skydive. Tell me where I need to be and I will be there. Line it up and Go! Laters, .The REAL KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER! "HESITATION CAUSES DEATH!!!" "Be Slow to Fall into Friendship; but when Thou Art in, Continue Firm & Constant." - SOCRATES Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #15 January 28, 2004 If it's cool weather, don't care. If it's hot weather I prefer "A" since it minimizes the time I'm out in the sun in gear. I like LOs who find shady places for dirt dives.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmpnkramer 0 #16 January 28, 2004 Hey Kallend it must be hot over there in Thailand. You would prefere "B" in hot weather. How is it going over there? Laters, .The REAL KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER! "HESITATION CAUSES DEATH!!!" "Be Slow to Fall into Friendship; but when Thou Art in, Continue Firm & Constant." - SOCRATES Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #17 January 28, 2004 In Florida, it is too hot to dirt dive with gear on. A friend of mine wears 17 lbs of weight on her 105 lb frame. She couldn't do a dirt dive with 2 practice runouts in that heat. Definitely, "A". It also allows the LO to give some tips and "secret stuff". I like the extra time to go over special techniques for exit, approach, and docking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #18 January 28, 2004 Method A at boogies Method B when jumping with the usual suspects. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #19 January 28, 2004 QuoteYeah because freeflyers don't organize anything. Just look at the center of parachutist 'January' That did not require any organization at all. Oh yeah you have to be a certain skill level to be on an organized dive. calm down there, dude. Like I said, I am not on organized skydives. People can be freeflyers without being on organized skydives... I doubt bellyflying would be fun with just two people, which was kinda my logic in saying if people aren't keeping up and don't like dirtdiving, maybe they'll become freeflyers or form their own unorganized rw flail group. Lighten up a bit Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cruzit 0 #20 January 28, 2004 QuoteMethod A at boogies Method B when jumping with the usual suspects. Pretty much what I would say. Method A if you are jumping with a group of varying degrees of experience or a group who doesn't jump together very much. Method B if I'm comfortable with the skill level and generally know who I'm flying with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #21 January 28, 2004 QuoteHey Kallend it must be hot over there in Thailand. You would prefere "B" in hot weather. How is it going over there? Laters, . Beats me - I'm in Chicago!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamsville 0 #22 January 28, 2004 But John, aren't you flattered that they thought you were in on the 372 way? |I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #23 January 29, 2004 Method A is my preference. I believe that the more you practice it on the ground, the more likely the planned dive is to succeed.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
