0
murphyka

My first Cut Away!

Recommended Posts

[***
There is a huge difference between being supportive and re-enforcing improper procedures or actions. A buddy will tell you if your doing something wrong even if it hurts your feelings or pisses you off.



I understand completely. There were many experienced jumpers watching from the ground that offered tips and alternatives of what to do in the situation that I was in.

Hopefully, after a little more experience and learning more and more about the performance of my canopy, if I run into this situation again I won't be so quick to chop. AND hopefully I won't be in as much of a panic mode and be a little more aware.

Thanks for the tips, they are appreciated.

Blue Skies,
Kim
Blue Skies!!!
Kimmy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"I grabbed my rear risers to prepare to kick out the line twist"

Can anyone tell me why it's necessary to grab onto one's rear risers before kicking out of a twist?

Also, I keep seeing posts where jumpers go into a spin after deployment, due to one break being unstowed. Why should this be? Surely when breaks are unstowed, they just hang loose, not tight, thus there shouldn't be any flare on that particular side of the canopy?

Or am I missing something?



"Into the dangerous world I leapt..." William Blake, Songs of Experience

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Yes cutting away and deploying your reserve is more right than spiraling into the ground but, it wasn't the right thing and you should recognize that.



I hesitated responding to comments like these when this thread was first posted, but I think we need to clear the air for all you folks WHO WERE NOT THERE AND HAVE NOT JUMPED AT SPACELAND!

Kim was in a 4-way. Although the day was sunny and clear, the uppers were 60-80 knots out of the West. That's right they were screaming. Only Stevie from Anomaly landed on the DZ from the first load.

Due West of the DZ is a very large wooded swamp that is full of 4-10 ft briar and very thick brush and trees.

We broke the 4-way at 4500. Normal deployement was probable around 3500 for Kim. Unfortunately for her her track was to the North which took her further into the swamp toward a large lake and away from the dz. As she stated, (1)she knew where she was relative to the dz, (2) what her altitude was, and (3) which direction the wind was blowing.

She was in a spin due to a released toggle and felt she was going into line twists and made a decision based on ALL THE FACTS that the cutaway was her best decision.

It doesn't matter that she did or didn't know the spin was due to a released toggle because, as she stated she knew she was close to her decision altitude and was finally deployed under her reserve at 1500. Had it taken any time at all for her identify and resolve the problem before she turned back toward the dz she could have been in much worse trouble because there are no outs where she was.

This would have dictated her landing in the swamp which is something no one who is familiar with Spaceland would ever do willingly. We have a Deguello canopy out there that we could see from the air, but could never get to after chopping away at the briar for an afternoon.

I have had a released toggle on a Sabre2 which spun me onto my back so fast I couldn't believe it. I made at least one full revolution and probably most of a second before I saw the yellow flash of the released toggle and in those few seconds I lost 1000 feet.

In the best of circumstances with deployment at 3500, a normal Sabre2 snivel and two revolutions she couldn't have been any higher than 1500 even if she had instantly recognized and released the other toggle. Any lower than that and she would have been in serious trouble due to her location even under her main.

As JumperConway posted earlier, I also think she made the correct decision based on the actual situation she faced.

Had she been over the dz she would have had a few extra seconds to identify and resolve the problem. But she wasn't.

Jim

Blue skies,

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

"I grabbed my rear risers to prepare to kick out the line twist"

Can anyone tell me why it's necessary to grab onto one's rear risers before kicking out of a twist?

Also, I keep seeing posts where jumpers go into a spin after deployment, due to one break being unstowed. Why should this be? Surely when breaks are unstowed, they just hang loose, not tight, thus there shouldn't be any flare on that particular side of the canopy?

Quote


Think about the position that your toggles are in when you make a turn...one is up and the other down. That is the situation when you have a brake release...one toggle is still stowed and is in tension (as if you were pulling down on it) and the other is released (as if you were letting it fly). The longer the toggles stay in that position, the faster you spin.

I was taught that when you had a line twist, hold on to your rear risers and kick your legs in the opposite direction of the twist. I think that holding on to your risers gives you a little more stability and resistence to kick in the opposite direction. I don't know for sure that it is a necessity to hold onto them. Maybe someone else can shed some light on that one.

Blue Skies!!!
Kimmy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Hmmm...very interesting.

I know that there were a couple of things that I could have done to fix the problem. I did think to unstow my brakes and try to get out of the spin, BUT I didn't feel at that split second that I had enough time. Maybe that will come with experience.

Keep in mind that you have over 3,000 jumps and I only have 50. I would think that you would realize that if you are put in that situation with very low jump numbers that you would be a little less likely to work on the problem than to just focus on saving your life. I was already approaching my hard deck altitude and did not know for sure how much altitude fixing the problem would have taken.

You also have to keep in mind that I was over a field that is nothing but trees and brush as well power lines. I wanted to be under a functional canopy at a safe altitude to be able to make it back to the dropzone. Last time anyone landed there, the outcome ended in a fatality.

I'm sorry that you think that it might be shallow for me to post about having survived a very scary situation for me. I was not fishing for pats on the back. My post was merely to inform newbies of an experience that could happen to them and maybe fish for some advice from more experienced jumpers of what I could have done to prevent or fix the malfunction. You did just that. Too bad you had to be an ass about it. Thanks any way.

Blue Skies,
Kim



Kim,
I don't care if you were fishing for compliments or something -- you DESERVE them. What you did would scare the piss out of many many people, and you did it in a way that saved your very life. It may be true that cutting away may not have been 100% necessary, particularly to a seasoned skydiver, but you are not yet one of those, but you've lived to keep working at it. :P

IT FEELS GOOD to recognize, and have others recognize, that you kept your head in a threatening situation. A human being does need approbation and stroking, and you would probably have felt bottled up until you got your story told to some people who weren't there. It's part of the psychological release.

BTW, if your lines had already twisted, isn't it possible that unstowing the other brake may have failed to counter the turn caused by the unstowing of the first brake, because of the twist itself? So maybe you really DID have no choice at that point but to cut away.

I myself very nearly used my reserve on two occasions. Once was on my very first release dive in AFP (which happened to be my first dive after my two tandems). I simply did not feel the handle (BOC) on my first grab. I went for grab #2 and didn't feel it. I knew that if I didn't get it that time, I was pulling the two other handles, so I kept my hand there a moment, told my brain to remind my hand what it was feeling for, and a moment later I had the handle and pulled it. Whew.
The second time was much more recent (like jump 48 out of my 54, or so). I had my opening, looked up and saw what I'm pretty sure was a right side lineover. Apparently it was already working itself out as I unstowed and pumped the brakes, and the lines got right. I was a shy moment away from cutting away, and I felt pride in the fact that I was not frozen up, that I knew exactly what my next step was going to be. I actually felt a little rush from thinking that I was about to get my first reserve ride out of the way. (We'd had a nice spot and I had no issue with making it back to the DZ.) A little less than half of me was disappointed that I hadn't actually had to cut away! The rest realized that it is just fine to have a perfectly functional main al the way to the ground! LOL!

Talk about your experience with your instructors, and others as well, to see all sides of it and to learn from it. It will serve you well in the future, I'm sure.

Peace,
---Jeffrey
-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Can anyone tell me why it's necessary to grab onto one's rear risers before kicking out of a twist?

Also, I keep seeing posts where jumpers go into a spin after deployment, due to one break being unstowed. Why should this be? Surely when breaks are unstowed, they just hang loose, not tight, thus there shouldn't be any flare on that particular side of the canopy?


Grabbing the rear risers and spreading them apart helps stop the momentum of the lines twisting and aids in getting them to untwist. Think of two strings twisted together and pull the ends of the strings away from each other, the strings untwist. Also, when in line twists you don't want to use toggles to steer as releasing a toggle in line twists can cause knots and an unrecoverable situation. Hence, use rear risers in line twists. Not just grab, grab and hold apart.

As far as why a canopy spins when one brake is released it's as simple as one toggle is pulled down (stowed) and the other releases to full flight. It's like pulling a toggle for a turn. Try releasing only one toggle up high under canopy and you'll see it. Just understand that you will start turning. Be ready to recover it, i.e., have your hand on the other toggle too. Under certain conditions, one brake coming unstowed during deployment can cause line twists causing violent spins, i.e., body position, wind, forward movement, etc. It happens.
Blues

Nathan
Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Eh? How can a stowed brake have the same tension as a pulled brake? A stowed brake is higher up than a released brake, surely?



When you stow the brakes, you pull down on the line...
that's why you "release your brakes"..and you should notice that your canopy speeds up when you do that. That's because you stow your brakes sort of in "half brakes", when your canopy opens it's in partial brakes. It's you grabbing the toggles and releasing them that allows your canopy full flight.

If one toggle comes unstowed, then you have one half-brake toggle and one full flight toggle...ie. a spin.

--------------------------------------------
Elfanie
My Skydiving Page
Fly Safe - Soft Landings

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I say good job Elfanie! I had my first reserve ride in much the same way you did. With one exception, I jacked with mine way to long and almost killed myself, under reserve 700ft. I have had 4 reserve rides in my 1200 jumps. At your level of experience your reaction is more than acceptable. Besides, the first reserve ride tells the story........you will pull the handles if you need to.

Bill

"The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one" - rehmwa


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I had pretty much the same problem a couple weeks back with my 190 Spectre. basically, I SCREWED UP stowing my right brake above the ring and not below it. The opening was a magnificent spinner and a blown out elastic toggle keeper. I was able to cure the situation by simply pulling both toggles down, and once the left brake was released, everything was fine. However, this was on my 602nd jump. And even though I toss it out around 2800'ish, I was below 2 grand when it cleared.

Yes, a spinner is something an EXPERIENCED jumper can mess around with for a very short time and hopefully clear with a few tricks like staying loose and pulling the toggles down. But even an experienced jumper doesn't have much time for fooling around with it. There are too many experienced jumpers who spiral in and bounce because they failed to cuataway, or did so too low to do any good.

So this was your 50th jump ? I'd say you did the right thing. It was YOUR CALL. You made the decision, you acted, and you lived (ain't it great to be alive ?). Now next time you'll know, you'll think "but wait, I'll try pulling my toggles down first, and if that don't work, I go for the handles". Believe me, that's what I was thinking.

But you did just fine. Congratulations and don't take any crap about it from anyone!

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0