Blahr 0 #1 December 28, 2003 The subject says it all. For my size I weigh a ton. I'm 5' 10 1/2 ", 32 inch waist, and I weigh about 210 lbs. This is due to body building. So, my mass:volume ratio is far higher than average and most of that mass is in my chest, arms, shoulders, upper back, so I'm seriously top heavy to boot. I weigh about 245 lbs out the door while presenting about the same surface area to the wind as someone far lighter. The result is that (according to a protrack) my average speed in a belly to earth position is something like 135 mph. This is with a fairly wingy poly cotton jumpsuit too. The next result is that I try so hard to slow down when jumping with others that I'm on the edge of stability and fly like shit. Realistically, this will make me the guy that nobody wants to jump with pretty quickly. I know that a bigger jumpsuit can help somewhat, but I'm interested in hearing any and all other suggestions. Before anyone suggests it, losing weight is not an option. I dont have a lot of fat to shed and I've worked too hard to gain the muscle. Cheers, Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 December 28, 2003 I'm in your same boat (although I'm sure I'm not nearly as lean as you are), but I'm an avid weight lifter (and beer drinker), thus out the door I'm 280-285 and am 6'1" tall. I can still get down and average 115mph on a dive, though. How did I do it? Dress for success, you need to get a jumpsuit that will help you. I for one went with OUT swoop cords, but I had all the other tricks added to my RW suit to go slow. What else helped? I got a Skydive U coach to teach me how to slow down. So, try finding a RW suit that will help you (search for my thread on my BevSuit) and get some good high-end coaching. Hell, I'd really suggest going through Skydive U if you can, it'll only help. Oh, if I'm not wearing my RW suit, my belly to earth speed is 125-135mph (125 if I'm fighting to go slow, even in my FF suit).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #3 December 28, 2003 Dave, Looking at the pictures of your Bev suit. Are those things on the shins actual pockets that open up and catch air like some Freefly tops I've seen? Sounds like suit mods can definitely help. My suit isnt snug but its not particularly baggy either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hazarrd 1 #4 December 28, 2003 Quote Realistically, this will make me the guy that nobody wants to jump with pretty quickly. You already are the guy that nobody wants to jump with! just kidding Chris Lemme know when you're heading back to Keys. We'll make some more jumps. .-. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #5 December 28, 2003 QuoteYou already are the guy that nobody wants to jump with! GAH!!! I'll be laid up in bed for a day or two after that cut! I get paid on Wednesday so I'll be going over there on Thursday Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #6 December 28, 2003 I'm not real sure how much they help with general fall rate, but I know they help a lot if I get low and am trying to get back up. Since in my normal body position they don't really catch that much air, but if I have my legs out trying to pop up, they catch. They're pretty cool when tracking too. Beyond that the suit is double lines on the torso, baggy arms, the right kind of material (slow, can't remember the actual material) and such. Besides that, the biggest thing that really helped me was getting some good coaching. Good luck and keep us informed of what you do and how it works.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2Fall 0 #7 December 28, 2003 Hybrid jumps! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #8 December 28, 2003 Feel your pain dude, I'm 5'08" 200 and I fall like a brick! When I do RW I'm almost always in the base or the low guy everyone goes for! "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #9 December 28, 2003 QuoteBesides that, the biggest thing that really helped me was getting some good coaching. ***That is the most important part...as Dave says! I'm 6'4" and 270 out the door... I jump a fairly tight Tony Suit... After trying all kinds of 'magic' suit fixes... I got some technique critique from and actual 'skygod' that changed everything... It wasn't WHAT i was flying, but HOW! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites atsaubrey 0 #10 December 29, 2003 finally someone i can fly with!!! I feel your pain..im working on the suit thing too. I'll let ya know how i turn out"GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NZL60 0 #11 December 29, 2003 wooo.. I see a big way team forming here for us fast fallers.. we'll need a heat shield ! I too have the baggy suit thing going but I have to go with AggieD's advise as it wasn't until I started receiving specific coaching recently that I noticed a real difference. I still have a long way to go but maybe Aggie might impart some more words of wisdom for us newbies.....? Who said Kiwis can't fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites robskydiv 0 #12 December 29, 2003 Hi Blahr. You should jump with me. I can really smoke through the sky too. I have found swoop cords to be very useful in staying "up" with the light people. Afterburners rock also. Harry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rdesilets 0 #13 December 29, 2003 As you can see from the other posts.. you are not alone.. I am also a bodybuilder, 5' 9", 195. I have about 700 jumps, with the last 150 or so formation stuff (20-way -> 100-way). Prior to the formation stuff I did primarily 4-6 way so fall rate was not a much of an issue as it is now.. Tell me if this sounds familiar: As I approach the formation I would think 'oh shit... I am going to go low'... when though I put on the brakes in plenty of time. Then I stop just in time to not go low (or sometimes I do go low and its over) and spend the rest of the dive as flat as a sheet of plywood praying that I don't bust and go low... but since I am as flat as a board, I can't fly for beans so making the easiest corrections is very difficult.. I have a poly cotton suit, booties, etc, etc.. -- Ok, now for my solution: I just got back from a big way camp in perris. On the first few 20 ways I was back in the same situation (above). I did not want to spend the whole camp dealing with this. So, on the advise of Tony Domenico and Kate Cooper I put on a HUGE sweatshirt. The next dive it was like the mysteries of the universe were solved. I was flying my slot, popping up, sinking down, side to side, and overall chillin' in my slot. I thought "Oh my.. I am on the outside of a 20-way and just chillin' here with no problems..." So, advise #1 is to do the same. On your next skydive, put on a huge sweatshirt (thick cotton, pretty big on you). Of course, make sure everything is tucked in (e.g. the bottom is under your leg straps, etc) and your handles are visible. Your world will change. Advise #2, you need to get another suite. As AggieDave said "Dress for Success".. I talked with Tony afterwards and ordered a new Tony suit. I also wrote on the order form (well, Tony at Sq1 did) to make it EXTRA big using the heaviest material they had. It's a lot easier to take the suit in a little if its too big, however, if its too small thats $350 down the tubes.. Let me know if I can help anymore.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites elfanie 0 #14 December 29, 2003 Quotewooo.. I see a big way team forming here for us fast fallers.. we'll need a heat shield ! there was a thread a while back with the subject "Anvils"...try looking that up. My husband is one of the Anvils. he's 6'2" and his exit weight is around 285 or so. I think it would be cool to get a big team together...ya'll can call yourself the "Falling Anvils". -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Blahr 0 #15 December 29, 2003 I'm in! Only thing is that all of you will have to move here close to Cross Keys. If we are all on the same load though, the Otter might not be able to get off the runway Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #16 December 29, 2003 I have jumped with guys your size and bigger. One as big as 350, we called him Big Pat for the obvious reason. He had a panel sewn in between his thighs and a full wing suit. Not much forward/backward motion, but good turns. Two things. Suit and training. However, I will say this first - you must have an average fallrate in a relaxed position. Your relaxed position is in the middle of your range. Training will help you go faster/slower, but that is your reserve. For swooping, you must slow down on approach. In the base, you must speed sometimes to counter lift or push. Dress for success. My average fallrate is 110-112. Pick a speed. Get a suit that puts you there. That way you will have range. I have a weight belt for extra speed. 4 extra lbs is 120 mph. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites atsaubrey 0 #17 December 29, 2003 what exactly are afterburners?"GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beej 0 #18 December 29, 2003 I would imagine thats slang for booties... ---------------------------------------------------- If the shit fits - wear it (blues brothers)-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #19 December 29, 2003 QuoteI would imagine thats slang for booties... Maybe. However, the "pockets" on my lower legs above the booties are also called "Afterburners" so it could be that as well. (If you search, you'll find a pic of my suit and see what I'm talking about...its a BevSuit btw).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beej 0 #20 December 29, 2003 actually dave i noticed your suit post earlier today..but i couldnt find that bevsuit piccy..would love to see it.. ---------------------------------------------------- If the shit fits - wear it (blues brothers)-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shaggydog 0 #21 December 29, 2003 what are "Swoop Cords"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #22 December 29, 2003 Here ya go. Look at the shins, you'll see the pockets.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #23 December 29, 2003 Thin straps attached inside your suit at the waist area. They run up your suit and out the sleeve. A loop goes around your finger/hand. When you extend your arms, they tighten and expand your suit to add a little wing. It slows you down. These are used for braking at the end of a swoop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beej 0 #24 December 29, 2003 Thanks...looks like a good idea.. I once thought of sewing in a 7"x7" triangle shaped piece of material under the armpits and one in the crotch to cause drag, any experienced jumpers got any thoughts on this? ---------------------------------------------------- If the shit fits - wear it (blues brothers)-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,620 #25 December 30, 2003 QuoteThanks...looks like a good idea.. I once thought of sewing in a 7"x7" triangle shaped piece of material under the armpits and one in the crotch to cause drag, any experienced jumpers got any thoughts on this? I think it would hurt unless you had a local anaesthetic.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. 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atsaubrey 0 #10 December 29, 2003 finally someone i can fly with!!! I feel your pain..im working on the suit thing too. I'll let ya know how i turn out"GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZL60 0 #11 December 29, 2003 wooo.. I see a big way team forming here for us fast fallers.. we'll need a heat shield ! I too have the baggy suit thing going but I have to go with AggieD's advise as it wasn't until I started receiving specific coaching recently that I noticed a real difference. I still have a long way to go but maybe Aggie might impart some more words of wisdom for us newbies.....? Who said Kiwis can't fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robskydiv 0 #12 December 29, 2003 Hi Blahr. You should jump with me. I can really smoke through the sky too. I have found swoop cords to be very useful in staying "up" with the light people. Afterburners rock also. Harry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rdesilets 0 #13 December 29, 2003 As you can see from the other posts.. you are not alone.. I am also a bodybuilder, 5' 9", 195. I have about 700 jumps, with the last 150 or so formation stuff (20-way -> 100-way). Prior to the formation stuff I did primarily 4-6 way so fall rate was not a much of an issue as it is now.. Tell me if this sounds familiar: As I approach the formation I would think 'oh shit... I am going to go low'... when though I put on the brakes in plenty of time. Then I stop just in time to not go low (or sometimes I do go low and its over) and spend the rest of the dive as flat as a sheet of plywood praying that I don't bust and go low... but since I am as flat as a board, I can't fly for beans so making the easiest corrections is very difficult.. I have a poly cotton suit, booties, etc, etc.. -- Ok, now for my solution: I just got back from a big way camp in perris. On the first few 20 ways I was back in the same situation (above). I did not want to spend the whole camp dealing with this. So, on the advise of Tony Domenico and Kate Cooper I put on a HUGE sweatshirt. The next dive it was like the mysteries of the universe were solved. I was flying my slot, popping up, sinking down, side to side, and overall chillin' in my slot. I thought "Oh my.. I am on the outside of a 20-way and just chillin' here with no problems..." So, advise #1 is to do the same. On your next skydive, put on a huge sweatshirt (thick cotton, pretty big on you). Of course, make sure everything is tucked in (e.g. the bottom is under your leg straps, etc) and your handles are visible. Your world will change. Advise #2, you need to get another suite. As AggieDave said "Dress for Success".. I talked with Tony afterwards and ordered a new Tony suit. I also wrote on the order form (well, Tony at Sq1 did) to make it EXTRA big using the heaviest material they had. It's a lot easier to take the suit in a little if its too big, however, if its too small thats $350 down the tubes.. Let me know if I can help anymore.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elfanie 0 #14 December 29, 2003 Quotewooo.. I see a big way team forming here for us fast fallers.. we'll need a heat shield ! there was a thread a while back with the subject "Anvils"...try looking that up. My husband is one of the Anvils. he's 6'2" and his exit weight is around 285 or so. I think it would be cool to get a big team together...ya'll can call yourself the "Falling Anvils". -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #15 December 29, 2003 I'm in! Only thing is that all of you will have to move here close to Cross Keys. If we are all on the same load though, the Otter might not be able to get off the runway Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #16 December 29, 2003 I have jumped with guys your size and bigger. One as big as 350, we called him Big Pat for the obvious reason. He had a panel sewn in between his thighs and a full wing suit. Not much forward/backward motion, but good turns. Two things. Suit and training. However, I will say this first - you must have an average fallrate in a relaxed position. Your relaxed position is in the middle of your range. Training will help you go faster/slower, but that is your reserve. For swooping, you must slow down on approach. In the base, you must speed sometimes to counter lift or push. Dress for success. My average fallrate is 110-112. Pick a speed. Get a suit that puts you there. That way you will have range. I have a weight belt for extra speed. 4 extra lbs is 120 mph. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atsaubrey 0 #17 December 29, 2003 what exactly are afterburners?"GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beej 0 #18 December 29, 2003 I would imagine thats slang for booties... ---------------------------------------------------- If the shit fits - wear it (blues brothers)-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #19 December 29, 2003 QuoteI would imagine thats slang for booties... Maybe. However, the "pockets" on my lower legs above the booties are also called "Afterburners" so it could be that as well. (If you search, you'll find a pic of my suit and see what I'm talking about...its a BevSuit btw).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beej 0 #20 December 29, 2003 actually dave i noticed your suit post earlier today..but i couldnt find that bevsuit piccy..would love to see it.. ---------------------------------------------------- If the shit fits - wear it (blues brothers)-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shaggydog 0 #21 December 29, 2003 what are "Swoop Cords"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #22 December 29, 2003 Here ya go. Look at the shins, you'll see the pockets.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #23 December 29, 2003 Thin straps attached inside your suit at the waist area. They run up your suit and out the sleeve. A loop goes around your finger/hand. When you extend your arms, they tighten and expand your suit to add a little wing. It slows you down. These are used for braking at the end of a swoop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beej 0 #24 December 29, 2003 Thanks...looks like a good idea.. I once thought of sewing in a 7"x7" triangle shaped piece of material under the armpits and one in the crotch to cause drag, any experienced jumpers got any thoughts on this? ---------------------------------------------------- If the shit fits - wear it (blues brothers)-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #25 December 30, 2003 QuoteThanks...looks like a good idea.. I once thought of sewing in a 7"x7" triangle shaped piece of material under the armpits and one in the crotch to cause drag, any experienced jumpers got any thoughts on this? I think it would hurt unless you had a local anaesthetic.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
