rmsmith 1
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QuoteQuoteThat "dumbed down" version has survived 2 audits with the Feds. and 1 with the State.
It will hold up until the employee/contractor become injured or causes injury while on the job leaving the state to pay the expenses. Usually a claim will be made against the employer's insurance company.
The pizza delivery kids driving their own car fall into this trap when they cause a wreck and substantial damage to another person's car. The kid's insurance, if he has any at all, isn't for commercial deliveries, and the employer's blanket policy ends up with the bill.
The government knows this scam, the big auto insurers know this scam, but the problem of the lack of proper coverage is simply passed along to those in the lower ranks of society. In the end though, the kid never gets his car repaired; he ends up the real loser. Unofficially: "There's more where they came from."
As an independent contractor if I am injured I cannot file against my customers insurance. They do not carry me on the workmens comp. I must carry my own insurance. That is part of the price of being an independent contractor. In most cases the DZO's are the scam on both to their staff and the IRS. The avoid withholding hasseles and other employee problems. Most DZ staff are just not contractors.
Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals
rmsmith 1
QuoteAs an independent contractor if I am injured I cannot file against my customers insurance. They do not carry me on the workmens comp. I must carry my own insurance. That is part of the price of being an independent contractor. In most cases the DZO's are the scam on both to their staff and the IRS. The avoid withholding hasseles and other employee problems. Most DZ staff are just not contractors.
Sparky
As long as you are the only one losing-out, things will continue unabated. When the third party gets screwed, the ultimate employer and their insurance carrier will see the claim unless of course you have something to lose.
QuoteQuoteAs an independent contractor if I am injured I cannot file against my customers insurance. They do not carry me on the workmens comp. I must carry my own insurance. That is part of the price of being an independent contractor. In most cases the DZO's are the scam on both to their staff and the IRS. The avoid withholding hasseles and other employee problems. Most DZ staff are just not contractors.
Sparky
As long as you are the only one losing-out, things will continue unabated. When the third party gets screwed, the ultimate employer and their insurance carrier will see the claim unless of course you have something to lose.
You keep saying employer, they are clients or customers. Big difference
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals
rmsmith 1
QuoteYou keep saying employer, they are clients or customers. Big difference
You're right, I am confused. As a contractor, what service are you providing to your clients? Do your clients ride up in your airplane? Did they arrive at the airport as a result of your advertising?
QuoteQuoteYou keep saying employer, they are clients or customers. Big difference
You're right, I am confused. As a contractor, what service are you providing to your clients? Do your clients ride up in your airplane? Did they arrive at the airport as a result of your advertising?
I do testing, developyment and demos. Do not work with students. If I did, I would be an employee of some DZO.
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals
rmsmith 1
QuoteI do testing, developyment and demos. Do not work with students. If I did, I would be an employee of some DZO.
OK, I understand your position now.
Paige,
When I was living in Florida I was a Union Insulator in Local 60. We had less than 500 members and we had our own retirement plan within the Union. Everyone paid dues and they contracted with the different companies to pay a certain amount per hour into the Union Pension Plan for the union employees. The Union local has an elected group in charge and as of 97 when I left the union they had well over 8 million in the fund.
I see no reason why we could not do the same thing with the USPA. It will take a while to get it done but we could make it happen. There is a wide range of expertise within our ever expanding community.
I guess all I am saying is I agree with you
.
Damn I am a long winded SOB.
When I was living in Florida I was a Union Insulator in Local 60. We had less than 500 members and we had our own retirement plan within the Union. Everyone paid dues and they contracted with the different companies to pay a certain amount per hour into the Union Pension Plan for the union employees. The Union local has an elected group in charge and as of 97 when I left the union they had well over 8 million in the fund.
I see no reason why we could not do the same thing with the USPA. It will take a while to get it done but we could make it happen. There is a wide range of expertise within our ever expanding community.
I guess all I am saying is I agree with you
. Damn I am a long winded SOB.
Paige 0
QuotePaige,
When I was living in Florida I was a Union Insulator in Local 60. We had less than 500 members and we had our own retirement plan within the Union. Everyone paid dues and they contracted with the different companies to pay a certain amount per hour into the Union Pension Plan for the union employees. The Union local has an elected group in charge and as of 97 when I left the union they had well over 8 million in the fund.
I see no reason why we could not do the same thing with the USPA. It will take a while to get it done but we could make it happen. There is a wide range of expertise within our ever expanding community.
I guess all I am saying is I agree with you
Damn I am a long winded SOB.
But I hate unions
sorry Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com
kallend 1,623
Quote
But I hate unions
Interesting. Sometime when you have a moment to spare, check up on working conditions of trhe average American in the mid to late 19th Century. Compare them to now. Unions are responsible for pretty much all of the improvements that we enjoy. That includes you, unless you don't have to work for a living.
I am not a union member, but I certainly acknowledge the contribution they have made to making all of our lives better. Are unions perfect? No, but that doesn't make them worthy of hatred.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Paige 0
Family business has never had unions and our workers conditions are far superior to most union environments and our benefit plans kick their ass. Some of us do it right from the get go. Unions are loosing steam because more people are taking the initiative to do it on their own to keep the unions out. Spent all quarter learning about the decline going on today and why.
Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com
benny 0
QuoteQuote
But I hate unions
Interesting. Sometime when you have a moment to spare, check up on working conditions of trhe average American in the mid to late 19th Century. Compare them to now. Unions are responsible for pretty much all of the improvements that we enjoy. That includes you, unless you don't have to work for a living.
I am not a union member, but I certainly acknowledge the contribution they have made to making all of our lives better. Are unions perfect? No, but that doesn't make them worthy of hatred.
My question is, though this is probably more appropriate for talk back, why is it the you "hate" unions Paige? Some union guys kick your best friends ass or something? I just don't see what possible reason a college girl should have developed such an intense emotion as hatred towards unions. I mean, we seem to have almost no problem with horizontal integration of business in this country, but damn, labor tries to collectively bargain and that's just evil? What gives?
Never go to a DZ strip show.
rmsmith 1
QuoteSpent all quarter learning about the decline going on today and why.
So a college professor was telling you all about how great it is to be independent in a family business, right?
I have a friend who is a software consultant. He has a wife and two kids. His health care policy costs $1,065.00 per month, and that only helps him if expenses run over $5,000.00 out of pocket. So when he has a runny nose, he has to pay out of pocket in addition to the monthly plan. He and his family eat properly and watch their weight and don't smoke. Unfortunately, he pays for a socialist medical system that pays for losers and your college professor, yet he doesn't qualify!
BTW, he lives in the United States.
I beg to differ..Doc!
I've been a Teamster, as well as a member of various
other unions from labor to auto industry to aerospace industry..
You're correct in the assessment that 'at one time'
unions were a benefit to the 'common working man'
but those days are LONG gone.
OSHA now covers the safety aspects much
better than unions once did...
And as far as pay and benefits...
unions (IMO) only serve to stifle the
capitalist / free market ideals this country
claims to pride itself on.
As a 'worker bee' I always 'sold' my services
to the highest bidder,
Taking into consideration the $ and benefits...
In the manufacturing arena,
I was good at what I did and moved around
to better, more lucrative positions constantly.
My personal greed kept me continuing my education
and training to make myself not only competitive in
the job market, but continually recruited.
The only thing any unions I belonged to ever did was
take my money,
and make things more difficult for me to advance
myself upward at a given company,
"protecting" people less qualified and motivated.
In several instances, a good company lost a highly
productive asset to a competitor...
BECAUSE of the antiquated union policies they were
FORCED to abide to.
They are merely parasites that must create unrest
to survive,
sucking the life blood from business that sometimes
cannot survive their often unrealistic demands.
One prime example is the negative effect ALPA
is currently having upon the entire Airline Industry.
Now-
As a business operator,
I know that I must be competitive in my salary
and benefits packages in order to be competitive
with quality workers in the marketplace.
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
I've been a Teamster, as well as a member of various
other unions from labor to auto industry to aerospace industry..
You're correct in the assessment that 'at one time'
unions were a benefit to the 'common working man'
but those days are LONG gone.
OSHA now covers the safety aspects much
better than unions once did...
And as far as pay and benefits...
unions (IMO) only serve to stifle the
capitalist / free market ideals this country
claims to pride itself on.
As a 'worker bee' I always 'sold' my services
to the highest bidder,
Taking into consideration the $ and benefits...
In the manufacturing arena,
I was good at what I did and moved around
to better, more lucrative positions constantly.
My personal greed kept me continuing my education
and training to make myself not only competitive in
the job market, but continually recruited.
The only thing any unions I belonged to ever did was
take my money,
and make things more difficult for me to advance
myself upward at a given company,
"protecting" people less qualified and motivated.
In several instances, a good company lost a highly
productive asset to a competitor...
BECAUSE of the antiquated union policies they were
FORCED to abide to.
They are merely parasites that must create unrest
to survive,
sucking the life blood from business that sometimes
cannot survive their often unrealistic demands.
One prime example is the negative effect ALPA
is currently having upon the entire Airline Industry.
Now-
As a business operator,
I know that I must be competitive in my salary
and benefits packages in order to be competitive
with quality workers in the marketplace.
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
skypuppy 1
Family business has never had unions and our workers conditions are far superior to most union environments and our benefit plans kick their ass. Some of us do it right from the get go. Unions are loosing steam because more people are taking the initiative to do it on their own to keep the unions out. Spent all quarter learning about the decline going on today and why.
__________________________________________________
In other words if there were no unions your company would go right back to paying the least amount it could for as much as it could get for it? Your college professor have tenure?
I have some problems with unions and the way they're run, but they've certainly helped me get past the 'old boy's club' in the past...
__________________________________________________
In other words if there were no unions your company would go right back to paying the least amount it could for as much as it could get for it? Your college professor have tenure?
I have some problems with unions and the way they're run, but they've certainly helped me get past the 'old boy's club' in the past...
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone
Paige 0
QuoteIn other words if there were no unions your company would go right back to paying the least amount it could for as much as it could get for it? Your college professor have tenure?
Quote
You couldn't be further from the truth. My father and uncle took huge pay cuts just so they wouldn't have to lay anyone off. So why would they make the working conditions unsafe? They also got X-mas bonuses when the company was in the red, just because the way my family is with the business. So how is that treating employees like dirt?
The professor isn't 10yrd, not even close, and there are books upon books and articles showing the sharp decrease of unions recently. Statistics don't lie.Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com
Paige 0
You were totally off base with the comment. Not even in the same ballpark.
The professor was only discussing the decline of unions. My family has owned and operated a multi million dollar business for over the past 30 years. Health care is the most crippling part of our expenses as well, we all share your friends pain, it sucks.
The professor was only discussing the decline of unions. My family has owned and operated a multi million dollar business for over the past 30 years. Health care is the most crippling part of our expenses as well, we all share your friends pain, it sucks.
Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com
rmsmith 1
QuoteYou were totally off base with the comment. Not even in the same ballpark.
Yes, a family business to me is a video store, restaurant, professional consultant, father & son window cleaners, etc., a vast difference from a family owned corporation with workers that you have in mind. The definition of a small business varies greatly depending on the industry.
Paige 0
QuoteQuoteYou were totally off base with the comment. Not even in the same ballpark.
Yes, a family business to me is a video store, restaurant, professional consultant, father & son window cleaners, etc., a vast difference from a family owned corporation with workers that you have in mind. The definition of a small business varies greatly depending on the industry.
We are not a corporation. We have 20 employees.
Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com
kallend 1,623
QuoteI beg to differ..Doc!
I've been a Teamster, as well as a member of various
other unions from labor to auto industry to aerospace industry..
You're correct in the assessment that 'at one time'
unions were a benefit to the 'common working man'
but those days are LONG gone.
OSHA now covers the safety aspects much
better than unions once did...
And as far as pay and benefits...
unions (IMO) only serve to stifle the
capitalist / free market ideals this country
claims to pride itself on.
.
Do you really think we'd have OSHA if it weren't for unions prodding the governement? Really?
Collective bargaining is a free market process. It ceases to be a free market process when the government steps in with a "cooling off period" or mandatory arbitration.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteQuoteI beg to differ..Doc!
I've been a Teamster, as well as a member of various
other unions from labor to auto industry to aerospace industry..
You're correct in the assessment that 'at one time'
unions were a benefit to the 'common working man'
but those days are LONG gone.
OSHA now covers the safety aspects much
better than unions once did...
And as far as pay and benefits...
unions (IMO) only serve to stifle the
capitalist / free market ideals this country
claims to pride itself on.
.
Do you really think we'd have OSHA if it weren't for unions prodding the governement? Really?
Collective bargaining is a free market process. It ceases to be a free market process when the government steps in with a "cooling off period" or mandatory arbitration.
Have you ever belonged to a union or are you speaking from a academic point of view?
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals
kallend 1,623
QuoteQuoteQuoteI beg to differ..Doc!
I've been a Teamster, as well as a member of various
other unions from labor to auto industry to aerospace industry..
You're correct in the assessment that 'at one time'
unions were a benefit to the 'common working man'
but those days are LONG gone.
OSHA now covers the safety aspects much
better than unions once did...
And as far as pay and benefits...
unions (IMO) only serve to stifle the
capitalist / free market ideals this country
claims to pride itself on.
.
Do you really think we'd have OSHA if it weren't for unions prodding the governement? Really?
Collective bargaining is a free market process. It ceases to be a free market process when the government steps in with a "cooling off period" or mandatory arbitration.
Have you ever belonged to a union or are you speaking from a academic point of view?
I belonged to a union for a short time some 30 years ago. It was not a requirement of my job. On the whole I thought it did a good job of representing the interests of its members.
There's a lot of not so good stuff about unions but IMO all workers owe some gratitude to the unions of 100+ years ago who brought about huge improvements in working conditions. And sometimes under very difficult circumstances.
In Chicago, for example, the police had been bought off by the stockyard employers and were openly hostile to unions. Later we had the Haymarket incident:
www.graveyards.com/foresthome/hmarket.html
The US Army was called out 4 times between 1850 and 1890 to deal with worker unrest in Chicago.
There were similar incidents in other US cities in the early days of the labor movement. In all cases the authorities sided with employers and cracked down on the workers.
I have no strong feelings on the labor movement as it is today. Maybe it has outgrown its usefulness. I just think someone who says they "hate unions" is showing considerable indifference to history.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
skypuppy 1
The professor isn't 10yrd, not even close, and there are books upon books and articles showing the sharp decrease of unions recently. Statistics don't lie.
__________________________________________________
I didn't argue that unions weren't losing ground in these days of global competition and instant international money movement, what I said was that they did (and still do, to a certain extent) serve a purpose.
__________________________________________________
Unions are loosing steam because more people are taking the initiative to do it on their own to keep the unions out.
__________________________________________________
So, in other words, if there were no more unions, then company's wouldn't feel they have to pay so much... Unions aren't necessarily the greatest, but I've been screwed over enough by big international companies to know that without a union you're squat.
My last big employer screwed me and some 500 other employees out of an average $30,000 in severance (mine would have been more - I eventually ended up getting about $900) by declaring bankruptcy with no notice. Then left the country owing millions (after using bogus ways to move money out of the country to its various other international divisions... Left the pension underfunded, sold their assets at firesale prices (often to other branches of their own company) and sure paid the plant manager a bunch to screw us that way.
If we hadn't had some sort of union we'd have been even worse off.
__________________________________________________
I didn't argue that unions weren't losing ground in these days of global competition and instant international money movement, what I said was that they did (and still do, to a certain extent) serve a purpose.
__________________________________________________
Unions are loosing steam because more people are taking the initiative to do it on their own to keep the unions out.
__________________________________________________
So, in other words, if there were no more unions, then company's wouldn't feel they have to pay so much... Unions aren't necessarily the greatest, but I've been screwed over enough by big international companies to know that without a union you're squat.
My last big employer screwed me and some 500 other employees out of an average $30,000 in severance (mine would have been more - I eventually ended up getting about $900) by declaring bankruptcy with no notice. Then left the country owing millions (after using bogus ways to move money out of the country to its various other international divisions... Left the pension underfunded, sold their assets at firesale prices (often to other branches of their own company) and sure paid the plant manager a bunch to screw us that way.
If we hadn't had some sort of union we'd have been even worse off.
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone
It will hold up until the employee/contractor become injured or causes injury while on the job leaving the state to pay the expenses. Usually a claim will be made against the employer's insurance company.
The pizza delivery kids driving their own car fall into this trap when they cause a wreck and substantial damage to another person's car. The kid's insurance, if he has any at all, isn't for commercial deliveries, and the employer's blanket policy ends up with the bill.
The government knows this scam, the big auto insurers know this scam, but the problem of the lack of proper coverage is simply passed along to those in the lower ranks of society. In the end though, the kid never gets his car repaired; he ends up the real loser. Unofficially: "There's more where they came from."
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