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airtwardo

USPA Member ??? READ THIS !!!

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Maybe the USPA should ditch the museum that no one seems to want and work on getting insurance?

Why have a museum for the USPA when the USPA will disapear if the insurance is no longer offered?



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Ron-

Hey, these are genuine concerns!

Make you voice be heard,
address questions and opinions like that
both to your Regional Director,
and The Board of Directors At The USPA.

It's YOUR organization!

Let them know what you think,
ask questions.

Get involved!

This is an issue that could conceivably affect
the way the whole industry does business.

The organization management should be made well aware
exactly what out concerns and priorities are...

It might be interesting to review a spreadsheet of the
general accounting and expenditures...

Possibly there are some areas
(such as you mentioned)
that aren't as high on the list of the
general members priorities,
as those making the spending decisions
believe them to be.

Don't criticize them, they're doing what they
think best for the organization...

...and they for the most part,
get very limited input from
'us in the field'

Heck...
they couldn't even get people to respond to
the proxy issue...

There are a whole lot of smart, talented people out here...
If you have questions...ask them!

If you are not happy with the way things are being done,
work to change them!

Write...Call...VOTE!










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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I have given up on the USPA.

They ignore issues all to often.
And ignore input from people and do what they want.
No one wanted the museum. Only the board did.

They are lazy, and I am looking forward to the day I don't have to be a member to jump at some of my favorite DZ's.

I will send my money to the AOPA to have a lobist in DC, and I'll but Skydiving to get real news, not politicly correct agenda spurting crap.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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I have given up on the USPA.

They ignore issues all to often.
And ignore input from people and do what they want.
No one wanted the museum. Only the board did.

They are lazy, and I am looking forward to the day I don't have to be a member to jump at some of my favorite DZ's.

I will send my money to the AOPA to have a lobist in DC, and I'll but Skydiving to get real news, not politicly correct agenda spurting crap.



***

Don't sugar coat it Ron!

How do you REALLY feel!! ;)










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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Fellow jumpers,
For those who follow demo post like I do, this is not just about dues and raising the bar for the PRO rating. If something doesn't happen soon, skydiving in general as we know it will forever be changed. I fully believe we are facing a major crisis! Just take a look at the events of 9/11. Boeing and the owners of the World Trade Centers are now being sued for causing 9/11. Does that make any sense? If USPA doesn't realize soon what they are facing, they will wake-up one day and say, what the heck happened! Where did all of our members go? No insurance, no members! That's how most jumpers feel. If there is no insurance, why pay the dues. If DZ's no longer can afford the insurance, it want stop me from jumping. I have a place to jump besides the DZ, but most people don't have that luxury. Without DZ's, the gear manufacturers will go away, etc., etc., etc. Guys, this is serious business! If we start now, we may be able to save our sport. Some will think I am crying wolf and over reacting. Some have already, like myself, seen the light, no light in this case, at the end of the tunnel!

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If something doesn't happen soon, skydiving in general as we know it will forever be changed.


If the USPA membership demonstrates the ability to pay ever increasing insurance premiums there will be no problem. However, we live in a world of limits, and the tort system has been pushing each and every industry toward their limits. At some point the USPA membership will have to say enough is enough.

Today, the Trial Lawyers Association are one of the largest contributers to the Democratic party, and their position is to keep our evil corporations (your 401k plan) "in-check" through large punitive and suffering awards. The insurance industry is simply responding to the courts. And I wouldn't count on anything from the courts since these are the same folks who will quietly give the nod for a single mother of three kids to forfeit her home because the teenage son had a couple of pot plants in his bedroom closet.

The current USPA dues are roughly the same price as a "pay-per-view" boxing match. Personally, I would expect annual dues climb to at least several hundred dollars if they are to continue their third party insurance program.

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What exactly is a "Demo jumper"? I am a young guy, don't know much about insurance policies, I don't know much about law. What I do know is I love skydiving, I am completely addicted and don't know what I would do without it. What does all this mean to a person like me? More money to be able to jump paid to USPA? No more jumping? I do understand some of whats being said but whats it all boiling down to? :|:|

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Re-reading the essay by Glenn Bangs in the Sept. Parchutist, one thing that is key in it is that the Board asking for input from the membership for solutions. They've stated the circumstances and possible consequences. I don't know much about selling insurance, but one thing sticks out like a sore thumb:
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Unfortunately, whenever a claim is submitted to USPAs provider under the demo insurance program, USPA loses all control over that claim. Regardless of circumstances, the insurance company often pays the claim, rather than refuting it in court, preferring to cut its losses and pass the costs back to its customer (USPA) in the form of higher premiums.



This sounds a lot like what is going on with California's workman's comp problem. The system is designed to just payout to the claimant, versus impose limits and checkpoints against fraud and abuse.

Certainly that are other companies which provide this type of coverage, but with greater cost controls, which assure coverage, but ensure there is less waste, or extraneous payouts?


As for me, I'm still wondering how a lack of coverage would affect me. I've made sure that my health coverage and life policies are up to the task, but I don't have my own liability to cover third-party damages if I were to find myself needing it.

So, let's say winds screw with me, and I end up damaging someone's private property, technically, I don't think the DZ could be held in any liability, but I could, for certain.

Based on 150 jumps per year, and year round jumping, this sport costs me (this is off the cuff):
  $49.00 USPA

$3000.00 Jumps
$180.00 Reserve I/R
$30.00 Misc (rubber bands, etc.)
$500.00 Other fees (competitions, slot fills)
$3759.00 Total/Year


Buying any kind of personal liability is going to add a significant percentage to the bottom line? What might it cost...$250/year? So, $4000+ per year and up as inflation continues and costs for the DZ rise. Add 4% per year...$4160, $4326, $4499... and that's being kind. Depending on how this shakes out, I'm young enough in the sport that it may nudge me out of it.

I don't have a PRO Rating so I can't even imagine everything you guys go through sometimes.

I'm not good enough at math to figure out a solution to USPAs problem here, but it has to be mathmatically possible, and thus economically possible. Risk managers...step up!!

I remember Needles' article last year about this, I just didn't recall that Demo was a rider on the general policy. Now the impact will kill both.

Perhaps USPA can get the general coverage as a rider on something with AOPA?
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

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Kind of like a 'Biker' but with teeth!

Still kind of in the dark as to what a demo jumper is. After I find out I am sure that line will be clear to me ;)

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Depending on how this shakes out, I'm young enough in the sport that it may nudge me out of it.



I to am young in the sport but I CANT be nudged out. I must continue this and will no matter what find a way. I hope they figure something out [:/]

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Still kind of in the dark as to what a demo jumper is. After I find out I am sure that line will be clear to me ;)



I didn't get the joke behind the line either, but one area for demo jumpers are skydivers flying in to sporting events and public venues.
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

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As for me, I'm still wondering how a lack of coverage would affect me. I've made sure that my health coverage and life policies are up to the task, but I don't have my own liability to cover third-party damages if I were to find myself needing it.

So, let's say winds screw with me, and I end up damaging someone's private property, technically, I don't think the DZ could be held in any liability, but I could, for certain.

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That's why we should 'first kill all the lawyers'
If you caused the damage...but didn't have any coverage or assets to correct your injured parties loss, that party would understandably go after anyone and everyone that he might recover payment from.
And the most obvious party would be the dropzone, which means that their cost for liability coverage would skyrocket as would jump tickets...(as an example)

Now there was a recent claim from a 'novice' jumper that landed out...
canopy went over some power lines and shut of an area of town, including the air-conditioning at a 'chicken farm' causing 35,000 dollars plus in dead fowl.
The general membership insurance covered the loss without question...

Without that coverage in place who would cover it?


Buying any kind of personal liability is going to add a significant percentage to the bottom line? What might it cost...$250/year


Well...
you may want to check with your insurance broker, I've been doing a little research on this and the personal liability policy
programs I've been able to check out are worded as such that I don't believe that 'chicken farm' losses would be covered.










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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Buying any kind of personal liability is going to add a significant percentage to the bottom line? What might it cost...$250/year

Well...
you may want to check with your insurance broker, I've been doing a little research on this and the personal liability policy
programs I've been able to check out are worded as such that I don't believe that 'chicken farm' losses would be covered.



This could be the next insurance segment...we have life insurance, auto insurance, now...personal liability insurance, use it the same way that people use auto insurance, sans the "health" insurance factor.

How does FAI or CSPA handle this?
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

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What exactly is a "Demo jumper"?



***

Kind of like a 'Biker' but with teeth! :|



We don't all have teeth. Some of us played hockey...
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

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Yeah, I had a similar discussion some time back...

Ask him another hypothetical concerning
parachute activities and demonstration jumping...

It's whole different can 'o worms...

If said thrown football were tossed by someone
being paid to do so...a performance so to speak.

The insurer may have a slightly different opinion
on whether they would pay.










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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Yeah, I already had that discussion. If it's done for fun, it's covered. Competition isn't.

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But how about if it's done for money?

If you are being paid as a 'professional performer'
and someone should be inadvertently injured
as a result of your performance....

I'm doubtful homeowners / renters liability would cover you.











~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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Right, it won't. Paid = same as competition = not "just for fun."



***

I do see your point!:)
And it does raise an interesting question...

I wonder if and for how much a person might actually be covered in a real world situation,
by such a 'personal policy' if he were jumping
demos for charity events and such...? :)
I'll ask the lawyer on our team for an opinion... B|

Creative thought process there! B|
Keep those ideas coming!! ;)










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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