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Mirage63

What's the largest completed RW formation You've been on?

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When the 300 way was done, I thought that it would stand for years. Being new to big ways maybe some one could post a time line of new records.

Also, does anyone know how many people who were on the current record were ALSO on the 300 way record?

Rainy day questions................

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When the 300 way was done, I thought that it would stand for years. Being new to big ways maybe some one could post a time line of new records.

Also, does anyone know how many people who were on the current record were ALSO on the 300 way record? ***

I know a couple of people from Alabama (my home state) were on the 300 way in AZ - former shuttle astronaut Fred Leslie and his wife Kathy. Not sure if they were on the 357 way, but my friend Hiro Masuda, who is deaf, from Japan was on that one closing the 3rd from last grip.

I was an original member of the 300 way attempts at Skydive Chicago in 1998, then broke my arm a month before that and had to give up my slot. Oh well.
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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When the 300 way was done, I thought that it would stand for years. Being new to big ways maybe some one could post a time line of new records. ***

I can't be sure of the exact years, but the first 100 way was done sometime in the early to mid 1980's. Actually I don't even know what year, but it was in that decade. There was a 144 way done at Quincy in the mid to late 80's, though I may be wrong. In 1992 or thereabouts, the 200 way was completed in Myrtle Beach, SC. In 1994 I think they got an unofficial 216 way in Bratislava, (country?) that had one wrong grip. In 1996 (I think), saw a 300 way attempt build to 297 in Anapa, Russia. I know there was a world record attempt at Lake Wales before that, by Roger Nelson, but I can't recall the date or year. Then there was the 246 way world record at Chicago (the one I was supposed to be on) in 1998. There was another one at Chicago in 2000 I think, that didn't succeed. The 246 way was then eclipsed by a 282 way in Thailand, which was beaten by the 300 way in Eloy, and now the 357 way in Thailand recently.

It was slow going in the early years as talent and experience were sparse, and dive engineering in those sizes were being tweaked again and again to find something that worked. Finally, at Anapa, they employed the weedwacker layout used on every record attempt ever since, for the outer parts that proved easier and quicker to build and hold and less susceptible to pulling and pushing stresses. It was also an easy formation to add and subtract jumpers.

I predict we'll see a 400 way in a few years, which was unthinkable just 5 years ago. Before the 200 way was done, a 300 way was believed unattainable.

Amazing, huh?
Blue Skies
Billy
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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I predict we'll see a 400 way in a few years, which was unthinkable just 5 years ago. Before the 200 way was done, a 300 way was believed unattainable.

Amazing, huh?


If you think about it, adding just one more row of wackers to the 357 way would take it to well above 400 people.

As for me, I dunno, maybe about 15. My most memorable "big ways" though are some multipoint 8 ways out of C-182s.

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When the 300 way was done, I thought that it would stand for years. Being new to big ways maybe some one could post a time line of new records.



See http://www.theworldteam.com/Mhistory.htm for a timeline. I, too, thought at the time it might last a while, but within just a few days of the 300-way, I heard about the plans for the larger way, and I'm not even in the loop!

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Also, does anyone know how many people who were on the current record were ALSO on the 300 way record?



I do not have the numbers, but both rosters are available online (hmm -- the 300-way.com site is gone, but google still has the cached pages) and an enterprising person could match 'em up. I'd take a swag at 50% overlap, extrapolated from who I saw at Eloy but not in Thailand, and vice-versa. There were reportedly ~70% veterans from WT99.

I've no doubt that 400 way is close at hand. The biggest problems going bigger seem to be finding qualified people who will try, can spend the significant time and money required, and obtaining a reliable source of aircraft and dz operations. The Royal Thai Air Force was absolutely superb in this regard.

Is 500 doable? Yes, but. I think the organizational logistics would be the problem, not the formation: find em, transport em, house em, feed em, herd em, communicate with em; and that's just the surface view of the problems. As I complimented the RTAF, I extend the same courtesy to the WT04 organizers and support staff: a first-rate job guys and gals!

-- Dave

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Not sure if they were on the 357 way, but my friend Hiro Masuda, who is deaf, from Japan was on that one closing the 3rd from last grip.



Hiro is an amazing jumper. I did an Airspeed camp with him in Nov 2002, and have bumped into him several times since, including the 357 way. I have not met many people who try harder or have a more pleasant personality. You're indeed fortunate to count him as a friend.

-- Dave

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Many small planes setup:
-Less comfortable
-Longer climb
-More O2 problems
-Easier to tweak aircraft positions

Four big planes:
-Greater risk of collision/shoulder dislocation on exit
-Fewer stable exits due to congestion and high speed exits
-More traffic issues

Reliability was about the same. We had 3 aircraft problems with the Hercs, 3 problems with one of the 14 smaller aircraft.

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I was in the whiner's corner in otter I (slot I-3b) third from lead, right side) in Eloy, middle of the first wacker in sector 4, and in the last row of divers from the lead Herc in Thailand, next to outside of wacker 4 in sector 10.

Obviously, the dive was far steeper from the Hercs, and was much flatter from the Otters. The Hercs exited 4 abreast, 20-25 lines deep, with a faster airspeed and a tailgate vs the slower Otter, single file diving from the side door maybe 10 people deep (at the end). I thought the exit from the Herc was *much* easier - and certainly more fun - than the Otter, especially from the whiner's corner.

The aircraft formation for both events spread out to give people the straightest shot to the skydiving formation. Both dives were well planned, and neither had lingering traffic problems, once everybody understood their job and flew it.

The ride to altitude was much more comfortable in the Herc, both because it was warmer (did I mention I was in the whiner's corner in the Otter?) and it was a bit less cramped in the Herc. It was more difficult identifying your own O2 hose in the Herc, but the hoses were less of an issue during exit. We exited higher in Thailand (23,500') than in Eloy (21,000'), and a couple of times it felt like we were at altitude a long time in Thailand.

I suspect the Eloy lineup will not scale appreciably further than the 14 aircraft used. I'd have to imagine than aircraft logistics would become a significant factor with 20 or more aircraft in formation (mechanical problems, coordination, safety) than with 5 C-130s. Both events had aircraft mechanical problems, and both were overcome.

Is this about what you wanted to know? I'd do either event again, but my preference is for the C-130s, and I believe they, or something similar, will be required for 400+ way formations.

-- Dave

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