jumpingjoe 0 #1 March 1, 2004 Finally had a great weekend of jumping here in the Northeast. But towards the end of last year, there was a woman skydiver who obtained her C license before the September change and after taking over 30 jumps to get off of AFF (last year) and feels (believes) that she is all knowing in the skydiving world. She was in my opinion a reckless skydiver and has been talked to. Well yesterday a full caravan load was out and everyone was under canopy and I noticed this woman flying toward me with her head completely turned the other way and down flying toward the landing pattern and more importantly towards me. I banked a hard right and spiraled down a bit to clear the air. I figured that it might just look closer. Until I got to the ground and a guy that I jumped with said nice response that I had to reacting the oblivious canopy pilot. So my question is...this person is very difficult to talk to and thinks that she is the best of the best. How should I approach this. After a few issues last year and now this, I am at a point of not wanting to be in the air with her. The DZ is not full staffed yet so I am not sure what to do. The last time I spoke to her about an issue the response I got was and I quote: "How many jumps do you have? I have more then you so until you get to these numbers you don't have a right to criticize." That attitude pisses me off. Help!!! Thanks in advance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 March 1, 2004 QuoteHow should I approach this You shouldn't. The S&TA should. Talk to the S&TA, have him/her talk to the other jumper. If not, then talk to the head instructor, any instructor or even the DZO. If there is a problem, then other people have probably already noticed as well, trust me.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowhook 0 #3 March 1, 2004 I'd ask Aggie Dave to address this. He knows everything and likes to talk a lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JayFitz164 0 #4 March 1, 2004 Joe, Shoot me a pm with your email address. While I was jumping at a different dz yesterday and did not see the event, I am fairly confident I know who it is you are speaking of. I may be able to give you a few ideas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdweller 0 #5 March 1, 2004 Make it a point to not jump on the same loads as her. > "How many jumps do you have? I have more then you so until you get to these numbers you don't have a right to criticize." < This is a very dangerous attitude that IMHO can get her and other people hurt.------------------------------------------------------ "From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabr190 0 #6 March 1, 2004 Take her out back and beat the crap out of her!!!! JUST kidding, I think the S/TA should take her out back and beat the crap outa her Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueSBDeath 2 #7 March 1, 2004 You should try to jump with her, become a friend, and teach her the art of accepting constructive criticisum. Good luck!!!BSBD...........Its all about Respect, USPA#-7062, FB-2197, Outlaw 499 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DShiznit 0 #8 March 1, 2004 As Maddox would say........ 5 across the eye is a very handy (no pun intended) maneuver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwindray 0 #9 March 1, 2004 Joe, As a jumper at the DZ in question I feel we (meaning all of the regular jumpers who are there everyweek) should sit her down and talk with her, along with the entire staff. Not being on the same load may keep you and I safer but we need to keep everyone safe. I will personally assist you with this task. And yes I have been on a load with this person and and it has come to mind about being in the air with her. I know we and the staff have tried this before but the season in the Northeast will be starting soon. No more B.S. this time we have to get tough or she is out. Our lives depend on it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #10 March 1, 2004 Quote "How many jumps do you have? I have more then you so until you get to these numbers you don't have a right to criticize." < This is a very dangerous attitude that IMHO can get her and other people hurt. Agreed. But we hear it all the time. Even on these boards. I'm not there, so I don't know, but I think a whole group gettin' together and "confronting" her will do far more harm than good. Think about it this way....if YOU were confronted by lots (more than 2) people, wouldn't you be defensive? I would. Especially if they're people who I don't respect (for whatever reason, right or wrong.). My suggestion: go to the DZO and/or Safety and Training officer. Tell them there is a serious issue. Really let them know that it's important for eveyone's safety that this jumper be talked to. Tell them to talk to her...after all, it's likely they have more jumps than she, and since that's her position, she will probably respect them rather than get defensive. Just my thoughts... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #11 March 1, 2004 QuoteAs a jumper at the DZ in question I feel we (meaning all of the regular jumpers who are there everyweek) should sit her down and talk with her, along with the entire staff. Be careful how you approach her. I think that having a whole group come at her, isn't the best idea. It might look like a personal attack. Maybe the DZO and STA and some instructors should talk to her, explain to her that there have been a number of complains against her, and this is her last chance. If she messes up again, she can't jump there. Good luck and be safe around her.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #12 March 1, 2004 Quote How should I approach this. Well, if you think you are up to it, then you approach it honnestly. Don't got up and start yelling in front of a bunch of peeps that you think she is reckless. Catch her when she is alone and ask "Can I talk to you about something?" Calmly explain what you saw and what you did and what the other said and go from there. If you're not up to it, then simply advise the S&TA or the DZO (something you should do anyway) Quote The last time I spoke to her about an issue the response I got was and I quote: "How many jumps do you have? I have more then you so until you get to these numbers you don't have a right to criticize." That attitude pisses me off. Experience is great.. but honnestly, don't take that attitude from ANYONE. This is just oppinion now, but I take a lot of advice from a lot of people... I ask for it, I look for it, I sit down and listend when others are getting it. But if this attitude is present, I take it with a HUGE grain of salt. There's no "majic jump number" that makes the stupid smart or the unsafe safe and above all other things, there is always more to learn. I hope all goes well. Blue skies, Safe jumps, Nick My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mad47 0 #13 March 1, 2004 It is against my personal policy to report someone to S&TA for making some stupid mistake ONCE. However, if this is a pattern and the person is being a hazard for the others on regular basis, talking to experienced people who have a lot of respect at you DZ is probably the best way to resolve the problem. Someone with "I know everything" attitude will probably not listen to you because you have less jumps. This attitude already means that person in question believes that she does not need any advice, especially from new jumpers like you. Talk to those who have a power to ground her for a long time and make them explain to her that she still does not know shit and that she needs to follow safety requirements like everybody else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lee03 0 #14 March 1, 2004 Sounds like she has a serious, and dangerous attitude problem. I, agree that the ST&A should handle it.-------- To put your life in danger from time to time ... breeds a saneness in dealing with day-to-day trivialities. --Nevil Shute, Slide Rule Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwindray 0 #15 March 1, 2004 Thanks Fly Angel 2, I just spoke to the DZ manager and we will not attack, not yet anyway. But this person has been warned last season many times and now Ist day back and the same crap. It is fustrating to say the least. Thanks for the advice, we will handle this with the staff, not the people who want to kick her ass sometimes. DWR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #16 March 2, 2004 QuoteYou shouldn't. Why shouldn't he? I think he ought to take the responsibility upon himself instead of relying on others to fix his problems (or hers) for him. JJ - Pull her aside and gently explain what happened, and why you think it's dangerous. Don't be condescending, don't be confrontational, be concerned, calmly explain your side of the story, and be sure to listen to hers. There's no reason to be a dick here, and there's no reason that you shouldn't take care of this yourself. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #17 March 2, 2004 QuoteYou should try to jump with her, become a friend, and teach her the art of accepting constructive criticisum. I would say that outside of skydiving - this may be a really good idea. Unfortunately, we are not playing checkers here. We are jumping out of planes. There isn't enough time to dick around on this one. She could get hurt while you are trying to dilly-dally with her ego. This persons perspective is a dangerous one. The best skydivers are inherently humble; particularly to those with more experience (i.e. jump numbers) then them. She will NEED to learn this. I'm not sure what is the 100% correct way to handle this but I do have some political advice for you. You could: 1) talk to the S&TA and have them sit down and explain the situation 2) find someone of authority who you happen to know that she respects (perhaps a former AFF/AFP instructor) and have that person go over things with her. or 3) TAKE HER OUT BACK AND BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF HER! j/k Seriously though, this person needs to be condescended upon by someone who she respects in the sport. I doubt that she already thinks she know EVERYTHING. Who could? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voodew1 0 #18 March 2, 2004 I have to agree with lowhook on this one!!!! even if lowhook is a made up person The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voodew1 0 #19 March 2, 2004 I stand corrected lowhook is real and REAL The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #20 March 2, 2004 are you having a conversation with yourself dude? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eiley 0 #21 March 2, 2004 QuoteI have to agree with lowhook on this one!!!! even if lowhook is a made up person Yeah? Could've sworn I met him at Hinckley in 2002... even put him on a load or 80... nothing to see here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hazarrd 1 #22 March 2, 2004 or maybe this person reads dropzone.com like a lot of people do and the problem will resolve itself .-. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowhook 0 #23 March 2, 2004 Hi Eiley, that'd be me. You took great care of our team that year. Sure do miss ya! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwindray 0 #24 March 2, 2004 Jimbo, Thanks, and to everyone with great advice. This issue will be addressed before anyone whom we feel is not safe puts on a parachute. Hopefully you won't have to read much more about this. Thanks Again, DWR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thermosnight 0 #25 March 2, 2004 Hi Joe, I'm glad you posted this item, as it raises the important issue of safety. It sounds as if your attitude towards safety is like most people I have met while skydiving. If there is nothing else I have learned, it is knowing that I am responsible for setting my own boundaries and level of personal comfort. If your instinct is telling you that something's not right, it probably isn't. I suspect you will find a positive way to resolve this if you consider previous advice to enlist the help of someone influencial at the drop zone. Confronting this person 'en masse' is asking for trouble, as it might create resentment and bitterness. I personally wouldn't willingly want to jump at any drop zone where such feelings run high. Good luck. DaveMy favourite saying is under construction... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
