Out of date reserves...?

[FrogNog 1]

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In Canada our Repack cycle is 180 days while in the US it is 120 days.

Yeah, but that's 180 Canadian days, which is basically worth 120 U.S. days.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[billvon 2,396]

A few points:

1. Don't jump without a rig that says it's in date at the very minimum. If it is visibly out of date you could screw the pilot, and that's not cool.

2. Don't wait on a repack if the reserve/container have been abused. I thought my reserve had gotten wet in Thailand during the big storm. I aired it out when I got back (5 days later) because wet reserves can lead to mildew and damage. Sometimes 120 days is too long to wait.

3. Time a reserve is packed is not really the issue; it's how the reserve was stored. A six month old repack on a rig that is jumped rarely and stored carefully is less worrisome (from an operational point of view) than a heavily used student rig that was repacked two months ago.

4. George Galloway has done tests where he's packed reserves for X years and then dropped them. I think he's gone past five years at this point with no observable problems in deployment.

5. If you ask me, the best authority on how long you can go between repacks is the gear manufacturer. On my rig, the reserve (PD) is OK for 360 days and the manufacturer of my container (Mick Cottle) said he saw nothing wrong with 180 days, although that's not in the manual anywhere.

[Tonto 1]

In South Africa, we have a 180 day repack cycle, so I guess by your regs, we're all out of date sooner or later.

The fastest reserve opening I ever had was a day over 3 years out of date. (on a 180 day cycle.)

These days, I'm quite conventional, and have my reserve repacked every 180 days whether I need it or not.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[diverdriver 5]

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In South Africa, we have a 180 day repack cycle, so I guess by your regs, we're all out of date sooner or later.

The fastest reserve opening I ever had was a day over 3 years out of date. (on a 180 day cycle.)

These days, I'm quite conventional, and have my reserve repacked every 180 days whether I need it or not.

t

Now, I know mains and reserves are two different animals but let me relay a story here that happened to me.

I wanted to demo a Velocity 84. It had been packed for over 2 years. I needed to attach it to my rig and put my D-bag on it as it was a pull out system and my system is a throw out. I went into the loft and pulled it out. It was a brick like a Foldgers vacuum seal coffee bag. It literally kept its shape when I pulled it out of the first D-bag. The rigger there and I stared at if for a second and I said "I'll pull extra high." He knodded knowingly and my curiousity was peaked. I planned a deployment at 5k. I threw out at 5k and I had a canopy lock. Not a bag lock. A canopy lock. It came out in that brick like state and sat there. I reached up to shake the risers and it finally started to peel and spread. This was a full terminal deployment that took about 1,500 feet. We feel that the canopy stayed in brick form like that because it had only maybe 10 jumps total on it and the new Z-perosity fabric had stuck to itself. Had this been an older/broken in Z-P canopy packed that long it would not have stuck the way it did.

I think my reserve going for 180 days between repacks unless, as stated well by Bill Von, there are extenuating circumstances like getting wet or having dirt pounded into the rig would be an acceptable repack cycle. But in no way do I want my reserve sitting for 2 years between INSPECTIONS if I'm jumping it. There is too much "what if" at that point.

We've all heard the "gear in trunk of car" stories. I heard one where the coating on the cutaway handle cables melted into the cable housing and "locked" them from use. The guy actually did fix his main deployment issue before impact but was freaked that he couldn't cut away. They were able to force the cable out afterwards with only extreme force. From my understanding the guy threw the rig in the trunk of his car once again and quit the sport on the spot. Not sure how accurate that is but you get the point.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[Tonto 1]

All valid points.
Of course, I was in my early 20's in those days, and 10 foot tall and bulletproof. Now I'm in my early 40's, have a little more money to spend on my gear, and am a little wiser.

The gear was in use every weekend year round (We have no off season here in Africa) and the BIG 3 rings in those days and 220 sq ft 7 cells didn't make cutaway's the difficult job they can sometimes be today. At the time, I recall my attitude being very middle of the road, and hardly at all exceptional in the lightly regulated (and very dangerous) world of African skydiving at the time.

I don't think a comparison between a ZP main and F-111 type fabric reserve is a fair comparison. Do you know what the repack cycle on pilot ejector seats is?
Those pilot's are valuable, and I'll give you a hint. It's not 120 days...

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[loughery 0]

I wish the exchange rate was 1.50 again. I would make more money off ebay then.

TOT
B-5150

[okalb 78]

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Anyone know if a pilot has ever actually gotten in trouble for allowing someone to jump with an out of date reserve? What were the circumstances?

I know of a case a few years ago where a jumper went it with an out of date reserve. That had nothing to do with the cause of him going in, but when the did the incident investigation it was discovered. The Pilot was investigated and he had to spend a lot of time and money defending himself. He ended up having to pay a pretty hefty fine. He didn't lose his license, but I assume that incident is on his record.

-OK

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[piisfish 135]

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Is anyone here going to admit to jumping a marginally to wildly out of date rig, knowingly? Errr rather, tell us about your "friend" who did!

I did it, during 2 weekends, but it was just overdue.
don't think I'd do it again, not that I'm afaraid that it doesn't open properly, just in case there is any problem, the DZO, pilots etc might get in trouble...

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[mjosparky 3]

The difference being the main was ZP. The coating on the material will cause it to as you say "stay in brick form". Not a problem on a reserve made from F-111 type material.
The military has a five year repack on their aircrew system the DuraPack.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[rocketdog 0]

i just think it's interesting because from a technical perspective, you're DAMNED IF YOU DO, DAMNED IF YOU DON'T: (yes i'm being pessimistic)

on the 1 hand -- abide by FAA/USPA/DZ policies. not to mention, i've known riggers who have gone to REPACK a reserve & noticed that had it have been used, it may not have functioned properly due to the previous person's error. *scary*

on the other hand -- if you truly trust your rigger (or if you are a rigger) then "pencil-packing" seems fine. i mean if you packed if correctly 4 months ago, whats another month IF ITS PACKED RIGHT

.....just my 2 cents. it all depends i think

see the world! http://gorocketdog.blogspot.com

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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There are two ongoing efforts to facilitate extension of the repack cycle, from two different directions. PIA is spearheading one and has asked for USPA'S financial partnership. This effort has been onging for a couple of years and would take longer.

This is why we are so very happy that Transport Canada does not regulate skydiving.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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In the US jumping out of date is illegal. Jumping without a cypres isn't. You'll have to decide whether you chose to jump without a cypres. Or not jump until you can keep it maintained. But, many dropzones will check and you'll have problems jumping the out of date rig.

This is not an issue in Canada. Neither is the pilot responsibility one. If it came to increasing my safety at the expense of an overregulatory government I know which I would chose. As a matter of practise I tend to get repacks around visits to other dropzones. As I was broke during the time I referenced I was only jumping for work and not visiting other dropzones. Our dropzone believes that licenced jumpers are responsible for their own equipment.

[riggerrob 558]

If you attend our riggers' course - next week in Kamloops - we will teach you how to reset the secret clock mechanism that is built into every diaper and freebag.
American versions of that clockwork mechanism lock solid after 121 days.
Canadian versions lock solid after 181 days.
We will also explain how the US Customs and Immigration Service's X-ray machines reset that clock mechanism every time you cross the border.
Hee! Hee!

[FrancoR 0]

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Interesting. So, I have a PD Reserve and a Sun Path container and according to this chart both of these manufacturers permit an annual repack cycle for my gear (in Germany), correct?

yes, exactly.

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If it does not cost anything you are the product.

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[sundevil777 93]

If you're going to do the wrong thing and forge someone's signature/pencil pack, at least "lose" your data card when turning it in to the next rigger.

Geez!

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Kennedy 0]

You left out the option "I tried and they busted my ass before the jump." That really pissed my friend off.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[diverdriver 5]

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know of a case a few years ago where a jumper went it with an out of date reserve. That had nothing to do with the cause of him going in, but when the did the incident investigation it was discovered. The Pilot was investigated and he had to spend a lot of time and money defending himself. He ended up having to pay a pretty hefty fine. He didn't lose his license, but I assume that incident is on his record.

-OK

If you don't want to post it here can you PM where this happened and when for my own reference?

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[diverdriver 5]

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The difference being the main was ZP. The coating on the material will cause it to as you say "stay in brick form". Not a problem on a reserve made from F-111 type material.
The military has a five year repack on their aircrew system the DuraPack.
Sparky

NOT all reserves are made from just F-111. Some reserves these days have a ZP top skin. Hmmmmm....

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[Fireflyer 0]

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Time is an illusion.

until you hit the ground!

[Fireflyer 0]

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...just in case there is any problem, the DZO, pilots etc might get in trouble...

yeah, our DZO checks everybody's card at the beginning of our short season. no reason to screw them or the pilot for 40 bucks