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flyuphi99

cutaway charges for rented gear

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I don't get your comment regarding the jumper making lots of jumps on rental gear when others had to share.

Wouldn't the person who rented the jumper the gear be responsible for who is jumping it and how often?

I know when I need to rent gear, and I get to square 1 or ground zero, and the only rig I can jump is already rented, I'm SOL. Its a first come-first serve thing.

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When I was renting gear it was the same rigs the AFF students were using, so I was basically sharing their gear. In a day I might have jumped two different rigs because they needed one or another for a student on any given jump.

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When I was renting gear it was the same rigs the AFF students were using, so I was basically sharing their gear. In a day I might have jumped two different rigs because they needed one or another for a student on any given jump.



Yup. She jumps at Perris and Elsinore, both of which have gear stores that rent equipment to people off student status. These dz's are not the rule, they are the exceptions to the rule. The majority of dz's in the US rent student equipment to jumpers off student status who have not yet purchased their owen gear.

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I don't get your comment regarding the jumper making lots of jumps on rental gear when others had to share.



Ok, this is the scenario, some DZ's do not rent a rig PER-DAY but PER-JUMP, so, if there are say, 3 or 4 individuals who need to rent a rig, the CIVILIZED thing to do is to take turns, so EVERYONE can jump, I've done that and it works (when I didn't have my own rig), but if one of those individuals grab the rig and says IT'S MINE NOW, then....Houston...we have a problem.
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Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

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I highly doubt it. Why? Because you pay them to do their job correctly. So in essence you are paying for a pack job that will open. Otherwise.. I could just go around stuffing canopies into containers and be paid rightfully? Hell no.



That is why we don't just let anybody pack our rental gear at Perris. We try and be real sure about who is packing our mains for customers. That is why are Canadian friend isn't allowed to pack SQ1 gear. The fact of the matter is that you are only paying for a pack job. No opening is a sure thing! Watch out for #1. There is only one packer i know of that guarantees an opening and that person is just playing the odds. One day it will bite them in the ass.
Dom


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um... Jimmy already taught me how. I think you were thinking of the other girl who posted that she didn't know how.



Just making the offer. If you still weren't real sure about it I will help. Jimmy and them teach a lot of people how to pack at Perris and when they reach the up jumper side they swear they still don't know how. I don't think is Jimmy and Doreen not teaching. I think it is people knowing that they can pay a packer and don't make an honest effort to retain the info. If you are good to go then GREAT! Just wanted to be helpful.
Dom


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Right, but what you're missing is a considerate skydiver would bring the gear back right after finishing their jump so that someone else could rent it, rather than secret it way for another jump or dawdle about returning it. It's all about selfishness.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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Sorry but I don't buy that. It is like saying you pay a roofer to put shingles up not to guarantee the roof is water tight. Getting the roof water tight is part of the job. The canopy opening is part of the pack job.



Once again this is a different topic. Skydiving is about being responsible for yourself (reserves are still different). YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT CANOPY, NOT THE RIGGER! It may not be what you or others want to hear, but that is the fact! Remeber, you can pack a canopy 100% correctly and it may still not open! YOu may close the container 100% correctly and it may stillnot open! You may do everything 100% correctly and it you can still die in this sport! A roffer can control the work the do. They can tell if it is done correctly and even tell you how long there work should last if done correctly. That just can't be done with skydiving.

You and I coudl go out and buy the exact same canopy (colors, size, lines). Have them bulit from the same bolt of fabric. They could folloe eachother right off the production line and have consecutive serial numbers. We could have the exact same wing loading and jump them for the first 60 jumps together and on the 61st jump yours could just explode on opening. I have seen this type of thing happen.

This is a HIGH RISK SPORT! Nothing is guarenteed! Everything you read or sign in this sport tells you that! You may die even if you do it all right! Sorry if this doesn't make sense to you but it is the way it is.

Please don't take any of what I wrote as an attack against you or your way of thinking. I am just trying to open your eyes to the truth of skydiving and how you should approach it. Think of packers as a luxury that may or may not be a good idea.
Dom


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I totally appreciate your offer.

I definitely wandered over to the school packing area a few times after my packing class saying "Jimmmmmmmeeeeeee.....Helppppppppp!"

And he'd laugh and say "you forgot already?!" and show me again.

one of the things I really liked about that packing class is that it was made very clear to us that if we ever forgot or were confused about something, to come back and we'd get help.

I kept coming back and getting help til I was sure of myself. I must've bugged Jimmy and Doreen and Kai about at least ten pack jobs til I was finally packing over in the regular packing area by myself.

I was very, very impressed with the school and the instructors, and especially, their patience with me! ;)

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There used to be a pretty famous (or infamous) "Licensed Rigger" / packer at Perris named "Dead Ted". He guarenteed double your money back if you bounce.



His guarentees wher as full of shit as the Beer Pitchers he stole from the Bombshelter that he used in his tent instead of going to the bathroom. Funny how he is banned last time I checked!
Dom


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It's Packing Cathy. I have had the same idea! ;)

I have heard two versions of her guaranty. One said it was good for the reserve repack and the other was that is was good for a new main if it was lost. Don't know which is true.I would be raking up new mains from her if that was the case!;)
Dom


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I definitely wandered over to the school packing area a few times after my packing class saying "Jimmmmmmmeeeeeee.....Helppppppppp!"

And he'd laugh and say "you forgot already?!" and show me again.

one of the things I really liked about that packing class is that it was made very clear to us that if we ever forgot or were confused about something, to come back and we'd get help.

I kept coming back and getting help til I was sure of myself. I must've bugged Jimmy and Doreen and Kai about at least ten pack jobs til I was finally packing over in the regular packing area by myself.

I was very, very impressed with the school and the instructors, and especially, their patience with me!



You are the exception to the rule! Good for you! That really doesn't surprise me seeing who some of your friends are at the DZ. One of them is (or was) one of the most anal riggers and intructors on the DZ. He also happens to be someone I have known and respected for 10 years. To bad he moved! The offer still stands. If you need help or have a question you come up and ask me. ;)
Dom


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LOL! We can find you a rigger. Try Brett Townley. He is a good guy and a very good rigger as well. Plus you can get Laurie to pick it up and drop it off for you!

Shhhhhh Don't tell her I told you the last part.

He will even repack your main for free after the repack. Just don't count on it opening!!!!!!!!!!:D:D;)
Dom


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I definitely caught an earfull the last time he saw me being lazy and paying a packer.



When my 3-rings where hooked up wrong and I didn't check them before boarding the plane he and Dan B.C. fixed them on jump run for me. How embarrasing is that to have those two fixing shit I should have caught on the ground. Just glad it was I that saw it on my final gear check. Packer hooked it up but it was my fault for not checking his work. Simple fix to that problem. ALWAYS CHECK GEAR ON GROUND, DON'T USE THAT PACKER ANYMORE! I let others now how the packer had hooked it up wrong. This was not done to try and intentionally hurt the packer but so that people would know that the guy is human (despite what he thinks). Honestly this guy still packs out at PErris everyday. One thing that changed after that incident is that he is a bit more humble and is a lot more careful about what he does.
Dom


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If the incidents you describe had occurred on a chronic basis, the coaches and the S&TA would have been all over that jumper fast. Except for a single instance of a low opening near you, which the jumper concurs, not one other individual has discussed that with her. If indeed this was happening, is it not our responsibility to have a discussion with the other jumper so they can be more heads up not just for you, but for everyone else? If not your responsibility, shouldn't it have been brought to the S&TA's attention? Since none of the many, many issues you mention were ever discussed, then this obviously means you are responsible, as well, for a safety issue at this DZ.

Policy at the DZ is to share rigs, and packers always try to alert waiting renters as to who's next in line. This is always appreciated, and helps to keep things happy. They would never allow one person to monopolize all the rigs as you describe. A rig was once mistakenly put to the side when your partner was waiting to jump it. It was an honest mistake, which you may not have been aware, and was apologized for.

Would any skydiver ever be rude or abusive to packers? Doubtful, since they keep us safe in the air, and we appreciate all their efforts, especially on the busy days. Guess you consider it abusive to ask a packer if they can finish in time to catch the next load so you can manifest. Trust me, they tell you if they can or cannot, and you're happy that they do. And, golly,if someone doesn't know where risers or toggles are, well, let's get serious.

Your post is a clear indication of personal issues you should have taken up with the other jumper. It is unfair to ask her to PM you, after you've publicly trashed her in every way possible.

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BACK TO THE ORIGIONAL POST:

Is the jumper responsible to pay for a main he cuts away and looses even if he didn't pack it, the DZ did. OR should the DZ factor into the rental price the risk of loosing a chute once out of every 2000K jumps or so?

Hypothetical situation->
DZ policy is the jumper pays for the repack and a new main if it is lost. Now let's say you are the packer and there is a newbie who has been a reall asshole around the DZ. He has been giving you a hard time ETC...

Isn't there the risk that someone packing their main may intentionally shrow a small mal in there or maybe a major one. OBVIOUSLY this would be big time illegal and unethical, but don't you leave that option open (revenge) when you make the renter responsible for buying new equipment?

Chris

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

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Ok...I have been biting my tongue but I now feel compelled to chime in since I am the one being discussed now. Yes I am the said partner that was just referenced. It was NOT an honest mistake and it was NOT the first time you did that to me let alone everyone else who was renting gear. I am not here to attack you in this post but it is very apparent that you do not have an understanding of your actions and how you treat other people.

I was even there when you WERE rude and obnoxious to the packers and then yelled at Manifest on how the packers are not doing their job. The Office Manager in Manifest needed to raise her voice tell you to not speak to her staff in that tone and in that manner. Do you remember that?

And just recently, a person who is actually waiting patiently for his gear decided to go home because of your attitude looking for rental gear, when you had your own gear sitting in your car and refused to jump it.

I can go on and on about things that you have done to me. And things that I have approached you about. I can also go on and on about things that you have done to other people there as well that I have witnessed.

You tend to have a real problem with dropzone ettiquette and the overall sense of family that is present at the DZ.

With all that said, I will end this now and say that you can feel free to PM me if need be.

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