reese 0 #1 April 13, 2004 I'm having trouble passing AFF level 4 and I'm in need of some advice since my confidence is a bit shattered after failing L4 twice. The main problem is something I suspect a lot of newbies have...spinning out of control. I'm stable in freefall and intiate turns ok, but I can't stop them. The first time, my left run started and stopped ok. Right turn just kept on turning. The jumpmaster said I had a twist in my body. The second time I started spinning on my first turn and couldn't stop. This time I was told I was too tense and had a bad arch. Up until then I was told my arch was good. I've read a lot of posts and I read a lot about asking the instructors or the instructors will tell me what I'm doing and how to improve. But I usually have a different instructor each time I jump and I feel rushed. They land from their previous jump and boom, they are running back to pack, call my name out and hurry me to gear up...3-5 minutes of instruction and away we are on the very next load. I guess I have several questions I'd appreciate some input on. I've been lurking for some time and I find some great ,detailed, and helpful info in these forums. #1 Is it normal to have so little time with the instructor before the jump past level 2? #2 Am I or am I not justified in feeling rushed and like I'm not getting the instruction I need to progess through AFF? #3 What can I do to stop my turns? Are there common mistakes students make on these levels? Any technical advice would be much appreciated. #4 I live fairly close to a wind tunnel. Would this really help me? Should I spend time in the tunnel before I try to get through AFF 4 and 5 again? I absolutely love to skydive and want this to be a part of my life. But I'm starting to get frustrated and feel like maybe I just don't "get it". At what point should I call it quits? I wouldn't quit at all except for that little thing called $$$... Thanks for all your help. The people in these forums are fantastic! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orchid 0 #2 April 13, 2004 I'm stable in freefall and intiate turns ok, but I can't stop them. #3 What can I do to stop my turns? Are there common mistakes students make on these levels? #4 I live fairly close to a wind tunnel. Would this really help me? Should I spend time in the tunnel before I try to get through AFF 4. __________________________________________________ When I was going through AFF, I had to redo my L4 4 times....so don't feel bad. My biggest problems was spinning & kepping my headings. My instructors told me that once I've done a manuver I tend to de-arch and my legs were not semetrical...that's why I spun out of control. Just relax, enjoy the skydive...if you turn...be aggressive and counter the turn...do a feet tap. Those are the things that I worked on....don't have that problem anymore...solo dive does wonders! And definitely....tunnel time....also does wonders to my skydiving results."Love is doing small things with great love." Lacrosse: Legally beating men with sticks since 1492 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #3 April 13, 2004 Quote#4 I live fairly close to a wind tunnel. Would this really help me? Should I spend time in the tunnel before I try to get through AFF 4 and 5 again? A local RW champ told me tunnel time is great for body flying / control issues because the tunnel instructor can "mold" you in place like a poseable figure. He sets your arms and legs right and you learn fast. That being said, my problem around static line jumps 5 through, oh, 15, was mostly nervousness and a little bit of "just being a newbie". My slow left turns seemed to be due to hanging / holding onto the strut on a 182; my right arm would always be higher than my left. I have on video the one jump where I figured that out. Gotta love video. But, my point there is nervousness, and you mentioned you are rushed. For me, being in a hurry made me horribly nervous! Also, anything new, like a different instructor. When I was a student I could feel that sometimes they were rushed and I got less "personalized learning assistance" than when they were not as busy. I believe the DZO said if I could come out on a weekday, when they would be less busy, they could spend a lot more time with me and that might help me learn faster. Back to the tunnel, a tunnel may be less nerve-wracking for you, since there's less claustrophobia, takeoff pucker, fear of falling off the airplane (I still have that ), and the ground approaching at 120 mph. Final disclaimer: I have not yet been to a tunnel because I live near Seattle and I have thus far been too cheap to travel to one. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voodew1 0 #4 April 14, 2004 First get advice only from instructors. To stop turn think altitude - Arch -Legs - Relax do that first if that doesn't work add input in the opposite direction of the turn- if the turn picks up speed you probably need to turn the other direction. Go to the DZ early get with an instructor, get on a trainer and go thru the dive flow till it hurts than take a break and do it 2 more times The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoShitThereIWas 0 #5 April 14, 2004 QuoteI guess I have several questions I'd appreciate some input on. I've been lurking for some time and I find some great ,detailed, and helpful info in these forums. #1 Is it normal to have so little time with the instructor before the jump past level 2? Actually with the exception of Level 1, your instructor's should be spending the most time preparing you for your jumps on Levels 3 and 4. These are generally the most challenging jumps for students to master. Quote#2 Am I or am I not justified in feeling rushed and like I'm not getting the instruction I need to progess through AFF? Although it is common for DZs to want to keep a "flow" going which is generally not a problem, if your instructor's are rushing on back to back loads and spending 5 minutes ground prepping you, that doesn't sound right. Remember, you are the student and the paying customer. If you aren't ready, be clear in communicating that to your instructors. They should be prepping you on the ground first, then reviewing the dive flow with you until you are comfortable with it and can demonstrate the dive flow back to them without hesitation. It isn't until you have reached this level of confidence to skydive that you should even have your name on the manifest. Talk on the ground is cheap. Making mistakes in the air is costly. Quote#3 What can I do to stop my turns? Are there common mistakes students make on these levels? Any technical advice would be much appreciated First of all, stop, relax, breathe and think stop the turn. If your body is in a twist you will turn. Stay square like you did in Level 3 and don't give any input to the turn. Twisting your body is only one way to induce a turn. Turns can be initiated with your arms, knees or head. Anytime you decrease the surface area on one side of your body relative to the surface area of your other side, inducing a turn is possible. Try to stay "balanced" and symmetrical as far as your body position goes. Quote#4 I live fairly close to a wind tunnel. Would this really help me? Should I spend time in the tunnel before I try to get through AFF 4 and 5 again? Quote I have never spent time in a wind tunnel so I am not the best person to ask about what kind of skills you will learn. However, from a student standpoint, in the wind tunnel your stress level should be less which may result in a higher learning curve as you don't have to worry about deploying the parachute and landing it safely, you can focus strictly on flying your body. QuoteI absolutely love to skydive and want this to be a part of my life. But I'm starting to get frustrated and feel like maybe I just don't "get it". At what point should I call it quits? I wouldn't quit at all except for that little thing called $$$... If you have only failed your level 4 twice I wouldn't give up that quickly. Heck, I know people who it took 59 jumps to graduate from AFF. It all depends on how much determination you have and I guess money is a factor. But if you plan on staying in the sport, get used to the $$$ thing, amazingly though you will find ways to pay for skydiving. My best advice to you is if you really want to master it, try to learn to relax. If you are not relaxed you will fly stiff and not arch. A nice relaxed arch followed by a toe tap can make a world of difference. Don't try too hard or try to force it. Just go with the flow. Good Luck!Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NoShitThereIWas 0 #6 April 14, 2004 Last thing I forgot to mention is muscle memory. The more you drill your mind to remember a definition of a word on a flash card, the more readily and easily accessable it is to remember because you have developed a "memory". Skydiving is no different. Two powerful tools are muscle memory and visualization. When you are on the ground, physically get on a creeper or something that will allow you to "feel" the muscle movements when performing maneuvers like turns and stopping turns. The more frequently you do this, the more naturally it will happen for you in the air when you're plummeting toward Earth at 12o mph. Visualization is huge too. Practice visualizing what you will do by thinking and seeing it in your mind. When I was a newbie I used to sit and think on the ride to altitude and visualize the exact movements of my body to fly my slot. I still do that and it helps me a lot. Many times you will see people in the plane with their eyes closed reviewing their dive flow. It really does help.Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cruzit 0 #7 April 14, 2004 Jen pretty much covered what I would have said. The only thing I might suggest, if you are not doing so already, is to have a video made of your next AFF level 4. Video can be a wonderful tool. Some of us are visual learners and it is easier for us to understand the point an instructor is trying get at if we can actually see the problem. Please be patient with yourself. Many students fail several levels before it clicks. Remember unlike other skilled sports, you will only accumulate 1 minute or so of freefall or learning time on each skydive. Can you imagine trying to learn to ride a bike after 6 minutes??? I have faith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites firstime 0 #8 April 14, 2004 had the same problem, the instructors told me what I was doing wrong but I thought "no way I did that". Next 4 jumps were video, your instructors can see what your doing because they are right there but I guess some people have to see it to believe it. Hey a training video is alot cheaper than a redo. Good luck brother, you'll get it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flygirl03 0 #9 April 14, 2004 My advise??? DON'T GIVE UP..... It took me 26 jump to graduate AFF!!!!! and FINALLY jump solo. You will get it. You have gotten some very good tips here. Just believe in yourself1 If I can do it, Anyone can. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ earthbound misfit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RkyMtnHigh 0 #10 April 14, 2004 #1 Is it normal to have so little time with the instructor before the jump past level 2? I had instructors that gave me a LOT of briefing and debriefing which was very important for my learning style, so I think that is very important for the student to really understand the do's, don't, and why's of the sequence of the dive and expectations. Demand the time you need..that's what you're paying for! #2 Am I or am I not justified in feeling rushed and like I'm not getting the instruction I need to progess through AFF? Skydiving is not a "sport" to feel rushed. Even after AFF, there have been loads that needed one or two more jumpers so it could go, and I volunteered to go, but wasn't geared up and ready and as soon as I put my name on the load, they gave a NOW CALL! I threw on my rig and gear so fast that when I jumped out, I was so loose in everything and dangling in my harness..that I'm not kuhl about being rushed again..ALSO..another "Rush" situation is when I was spotting or trying to time my exit between the previous group or person and others behind me yell "GO!" and they can't see what I see, they're just excited about their jump..I'm not allowing that anymore either! Just go with your gut and if it doesn't feel right..don't do it! This isn't rollerskating! #3 What can I do to stop my turns? Are there common mistakes students make on these levels? Any technical advice would be much appreciated. There are several things and I am SURELY NOT an expert, but I repeated MOST levels during AFF, until L5-L7, so I can say I understand what you're going through. Common mistakes for me at your Level were *keep your heading and correct to stay on heading*, *did you do toe taps to make sure that your legs are even? that helps!* An example that helped me was to think about your body as a car driving down a curvy road and as the curves come about, you need to respond with your steering wheel (our shoulders and arms) to stay on course and keep your eyes on the road ahead. #4 I live fairly close to a wind tunnel. Would this really help me? Should I spend time in the tunnel before I try to get through AFF 4 and 5 again? YES YES YES!! If it's close and you can afford it, I've heard from so many that it shortens your learning curve. I absolutely love to skydive and want this to be a part of my life. But I'm starting to get frustrated and feel like maybe I just don't "get it". At what point should I call it quits? I wouldn't quit at all except for that little thing called $$$... YOU ARE LIKE MORE OF US THAN YOU REALIZE... I got frustrated too! and thought that I just didn't "get it" either and I can diagnose that RIGHT NOW! You are putting so much pressure on yourself and are a perfectionist. And, that also means something else...that you aren't relaxing in the skydive. I PROMISE YOU!!...once you discover what it feels like to enjoy your skydive and really RELAX..it's cake from there. Your lightbulb will go off and you'll have so many "ah ha" moments. You know, my JMs said that there is so much pressure and intensity during AFF that it's no wonder students struggle with the KEY component of relaxing! Good luck to you and remember..we're all here to cheer you on and celebrate your successes! Hang in there! _________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NoShitThereIWas 0 #11 April 14, 2004 I also forgot to mention that stiffness on one side of your body compared to relaxation on the other can also induce a turn. Turns and sideslides are often accomplished by applying some type of pressure or resistance to the relative wind. The relative wind is just the pocket of air you are being supported by. Forward movement (Level 2) and Tracking (Level 5 and/or 6) are also based on the same principles. Extend your legs and you increase surface area at the lower half of your body. You, the falling "object" is unbalanced in a sense. More leg surface area vs. upper body surface area exposed to the relative wind=Forward movement. The same applies for turns or head down or any body orientation. OK, so I'm done rambling and I'm a bored insomniac tonight I just thought I'd share my thoughts. Stick with it, try to relax, when the door opens take a nice deep breath. Remember why it is that you returned to that very position and why it is that you went there to begin with. Believe in yourself, respect your elders in the sport, listen to your instincts, practice on the ground until you "get it" and don't forget to breathe and relax. You can do it! Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RW16 0 #12 April 15, 2004 I failed L4 3 times. My first AFFI didn’t want to jump with me again. Got sick of it, went to tunnel. On next jump I did L4,5,6,7,8 combine, become popular (kidding). No problems after that. Another VERY important thing. If you would want to continue with RW, you better off learning right flying position, the box they teach on AFF is just for survival. The tunnel isn’t cheap, but this is the best investment you can make so far. Later on you will spend years and much more $ to fix wrong flying. My wife did tandem and will do AFF soon. But not before she does the tunnel camp. You will get stable in the air in 5-10 min of tunnel time (~$100). Based on my very limited experience (3 hours in tunnel), I’d go for the camp right away. Feel free to pm me. Good luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ncrowe 0 #13 April 15, 2004 Looks like pretty much everything has been covered, I had the same problem with level 4 ... the dreaded 360's........a few things that added to me finally "getting it" 1. Spending 10 mins in a tunnel with a coach. 2. Switching to an instructor that spent a lot of time with me on the ground working on body position 3. Keeping my chin up instead of looking down. 4. Finally relaxing and putting a huge smile on my face. My problem with turns was I wasn't keeping my back straight and I was twisting my torso instead of just using my arms and head. A good tunnel coach will get you lined out quickly. "Don't Mess Around With the Guy in Shades- Oh No!!! " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Phillbo 11 #14 April 15, 2004 Square your knees and tap your toes a couple times Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZoneRat 0 #15 April 15, 2004 Pah. Failing L4 twice is chicken feed! I know folk that failed it over half a dozen times! But... they eventually got it... and you will too.I have one friend that snuck away embarrassed to the tunnel when he failed it. That little trip helped him tremendously! When he came back he completely nailed it... along with the rest of AFF. Yeah. Lots of folk have problems with L4. No shame in that. I failed L7. No one fails L7... People that failed L4 EIGHT times were giving me grief! At the time it just killed me. But now, like all the myriad others that struggled on one level or another... it makes no difference to me or anyone else that I had to take l7 twice. It only makes a difference if you quit. If not, you eventually become a skydiver.“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites reese 0 #16 April 15, 2004 Wow! Thanks for all the great advice and encouraging words. I'm feeling a lot more positive about my progression now, just knowing that so many other people can and have had trouble with AFF and eventually make it to full-fledged licensed skydiver status. The detailed tips I think will be invaluable in the long run. Again the positive words make a big difference. I'm going to go for L4 again this weekend. If I don;t pass I think I'm going to head up to Perris and put in some tunnel time. Also, after taking in all that has been said, I'm going to request to work with 1 or two specific instructors who are willing to spend some time with me on the ground, instead of being handed off to a different one each time who rushes me up in the sky and down to the ground and hurries on to their next jump with a different student. Be sure, I WILL be a skydiver! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Adrenaline16 0 #17 April 16, 2004 I had the same problem when i was going through freefall progression. I couldnt stop stimulating dem helicopters . It was scary cause i was starting to ask myself if this sport was really meant for me, but the hard work paid off, cause i can now have tons of fun in the sky. After failing lvl 2 once and level 4 twice, my instructor brought me to the wind tunnel and it helped lots, the next jump i made, i was completly stable, and i never spun again. So don't give up and u'll get there! I wish you the best of luck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Reginald 0 #18 April 17, 2004 QuotePah. Failing L4 twice is chicken feed! I know folk that failed it over half a dozen times! But... they eventually got it... and you will too.I have one friend that snuck away embarrassed to the tunnel when he failed it. That little trip helped him tremendously! When he came back he completely nailed it... along with the rest of AFF. LOL. Hey I think you are talking about me! It wasn't so much I snuck off embarrassed as I snuck off determined because I was NOT going to fail a level again (and yes it was 6 times)! Just the expense of repeating the levels was out of control and the wind tunnel looked cheap comparatively. I mean $160 per jump over and over compared to $185 in tunnel time for 10 minutes…no comparison. Reese, GO TO THE TUNNEL. I had the same problem, uncontrollable turns/spins and it was frustrating as all hell. Within 10 minutes in the tunnel I could do everything I needed to do to pass AFF except flips (which they won’t do in a tunnel except in a very advanced progression due to safety issues). 10 minutes of coached tunnel time will do you wonders, 30 will let you have mussel memory. Dude, JUST GO TO THE TUNNEL! From someone that has been exactly where you are I can tell you it will solve all of your problems. Just do it! Hey Zone Rat, at least I didn't fail L7...how embarrassing. No one fails L 7! I don't think I would tell anyone about that! "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites themitchyone 0 #19 April 17, 2004 Reese, Spinning out of control is exactly what I faced during AFF, except it didn't happen to me until later. I had to repeat level 7. I was spinning like a helicopter, and I was scared. I couldn't barely stop the spinning to pull. I went in the wind tunnel for 10 minutes and this helped me tremendously. I was not keeping my spine straight on turns as well as pushing one arm forward at the shoulder instead of the symmetrical movement of both arms. You may be doing these things. The tunnel straightened me out. Also, an instructor recommend if I start to spin to tap my toes together to make sure my legs are even. Also, I find the rush factor affected me. Having to complete so many tasks in so short a time made me feel rushed. Remember to take one thing a a time, for example, turn, stop, then move forward. Rushing from movement to movement also contributed to my spinning. I took lots of time with my AFF, i.e., I only completed one level in one day. But I asked tons of questions, and told them I didn't want to be rushed, and they were always cool with this."If the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to girl's sports such as hot oil wrestling and foxy boxing." - Homer Simpson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VivaHeadDown 0 #20 April 17, 2004 Relax, everything else will come if you just smile. I know it sounds silly, but I've seen it work too many times to go with anything else. We'd be glad to have you in the tunnel! We get a lot of people with your story who return later to learn more advanced skills because it helped so much on AFF. We can show you exactly why you are turning and other details like that, but the number one thing we're going to focus on is learning how to relax and have fun. If you smile, you instantly start flying better because it relaxes you. If you're tense it'll take you that much longer to learn stuff because you are less aware of your body and what it is doing. Don't Confuse Me With My Own Words Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ripcords 0 #21 April 18, 2004 Just checking in to see how you made out this weekend. I also would definitely encourage the use of the tunnel. It helps not only with specific skills, but gives you the confidence to be able to relax in freefall. When students get into an uncontrollable turn they tend to tense up. When you tense your muscles, it tends to increase the spin problem. Relaxing is definitely key. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nael 0 #22 April 18, 2004 I hope you went ok if you jumped this past weekend. I'm doing AFF now, did levels 3 and 4 this weekend. On level 3 when the instructors let go of me I was fine, didnt even realise they'de let go, great hover control, I was so happy. Then today with level 4, I was turning and getting so frustrated during the jump because (like you) I was having trouble stopping the turn, and once I stopped it, I'd start turning the other way! My instructor was impressed because I did a 360 and stopped on heading, the only problem is I had absolutely NO IDEA i'd done it! My confidence is a bit shaken at the moment too, because although I passed the levels, I feel like I dont have enough awareness of whats actually going on up there. Until today, all my jumps have been about passing the levels. Now, I just want to jump to learn to fly properly. I'm doing level 5 next week, and I dont expect to pass it first go but I am really looking forward to it because I know I'm going to learn a lot from it anyway. Good luck with your AFF, do the tunnel time! I'm really jealous about that because I live in australia where wind tunnels are non existant, so I need to learn as much as possible in the 45 seconds of freefall I have each week. So, right now I have about 4 minutes of skydiving experience, no wonder I'm not aceing it yet! Good luck to you, and be persistant!www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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NoShitThereIWas 0 #6 April 14, 2004 Last thing I forgot to mention is muscle memory. The more you drill your mind to remember a definition of a word on a flash card, the more readily and easily accessable it is to remember because you have developed a "memory". Skydiving is no different. Two powerful tools are muscle memory and visualization. When you are on the ground, physically get on a creeper or something that will allow you to "feel" the muscle movements when performing maneuvers like turns and stopping turns. The more frequently you do this, the more naturally it will happen for you in the air when you're plummeting toward Earth at 12o mph. Visualization is huge too. Practice visualizing what you will do by thinking and seeing it in your mind. When I was a newbie I used to sit and think on the ride to altitude and visualize the exact movements of my body to fly my slot. I still do that and it helps me a lot. Many times you will see people in the plane with their eyes closed reviewing their dive flow. It really does help.Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cruzit 0 #7 April 14, 2004 Jen pretty much covered what I would have said. The only thing I might suggest, if you are not doing so already, is to have a video made of your next AFF level 4. Video can be a wonderful tool. Some of us are visual learners and it is easier for us to understand the point an instructor is trying get at if we can actually see the problem. Please be patient with yourself. Many students fail several levels before it clicks. Remember unlike other skilled sports, you will only accumulate 1 minute or so of freefall or learning time on each skydive. Can you imagine trying to learn to ride a bike after 6 minutes??? I have faith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites firstime 0 #8 April 14, 2004 had the same problem, the instructors told me what I was doing wrong but I thought "no way I did that". Next 4 jumps were video, your instructors can see what your doing because they are right there but I guess some people have to see it to believe it. Hey a training video is alot cheaper than a redo. Good luck brother, you'll get it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flygirl03 0 #9 April 14, 2004 My advise??? DON'T GIVE UP..... It took me 26 jump to graduate AFF!!!!! and FINALLY jump solo. You will get it. You have gotten some very good tips here. Just believe in yourself1 If I can do it, Anyone can. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ earthbound misfit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RkyMtnHigh 0 #10 April 14, 2004 #1 Is it normal to have so little time with the instructor before the jump past level 2? I had instructors that gave me a LOT of briefing and debriefing which was very important for my learning style, so I think that is very important for the student to really understand the do's, don't, and why's of the sequence of the dive and expectations. Demand the time you need..that's what you're paying for! #2 Am I or am I not justified in feeling rushed and like I'm not getting the instruction I need to progess through AFF? Skydiving is not a "sport" to feel rushed. Even after AFF, there have been loads that needed one or two more jumpers so it could go, and I volunteered to go, but wasn't geared up and ready and as soon as I put my name on the load, they gave a NOW CALL! I threw on my rig and gear so fast that when I jumped out, I was so loose in everything and dangling in my harness..that I'm not kuhl about being rushed again..ALSO..another "Rush" situation is when I was spotting or trying to time my exit between the previous group or person and others behind me yell "GO!" and they can't see what I see, they're just excited about their jump..I'm not allowing that anymore either! Just go with your gut and if it doesn't feel right..don't do it! This isn't rollerskating! #3 What can I do to stop my turns? Are there common mistakes students make on these levels? Any technical advice would be much appreciated. There are several things and I am SURELY NOT an expert, but I repeated MOST levels during AFF, until L5-L7, so I can say I understand what you're going through. Common mistakes for me at your Level were *keep your heading and correct to stay on heading*, *did you do toe taps to make sure that your legs are even? that helps!* An example that helped me was to think about your body as a car driving down a curvy road and as the curves come about, you need to respond with your steering wheel (our shoulders and arms) to stay on course and keep your eyes on the road ahead. #4 I live fairly close to a wind tunnel. Would this really help me? Should I spend time in the tunnel before I try to get through AFF 4 and 5 again? YES YES YES!! If it's close and you can afford it, I've heard from so many that it shortens your learning curve. I absolutely love to skydive and want this to be a part of my life. But I'm starting to get frustrated and feel like maybe I just don't "get it". At what point should I call it quits? I wouldn't quit at all except for that little thing called $$$... YOU ARE LIKE MORE OF US THAN YOU REALIZE... I got frustrated too! and thought that I just didn't "get it" either and I can diagnose that RIGHT NOW! You are putting so much pressure on yourself and are a perfectionist. And, that also means something else...that you aren't relaxing in the skydive. I PROMISE YOU!!...once you discover what it feels like to enjoy your skydive and really RELAX..it's cake from there. Your lightbulb will go off and you'll have so many "ah ha" moments. You know, my JMs said that there is so much pressure and intensity during AFF that it's no wonder students struggle with the KEY component of relaxing! Good luck to you and remember..we're all here to cheer you on and celebrate your successes! Hang in there! _________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NoShitThereIWas 0 #11 April 14, 2004 I also forgot to mention that stiffness on one side of your body compared to relaxation on the other can also induce a turn. Turns and sideslides are often accomplished by applying some type of pressure or resistance to the relative wind. The relative wind is just the pocket of air you are being supported by. Forward movement (Level 2) and Tracking (Level 5 and/or 6) are also based on the same principles. Extend your legs and you increase surface area at the lower half of your body. You, the falling "object" is unbalanced in a sense. More leg surface area vs. upper body surface area exposed to the relative wind=Forward movement. The same applies for turns or head down or any body orientation. OK, so I'm done rambling and I'm a bored insomniac tonight I just thought I'd share my thoughts. Stick with it, try to relax, when the door opens take a nice deep breath. Remember why it is that you returned to that very position and why it is that you went there to begin with. Believe in yourself, respect your elders in the sport, listen to your instincts, practice on the ground until you "get it" and don't forget to breathe and relax. You can do it! Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RW16 0 #12 April 15, 2004 I failed L4 3 times. My first AFFI didn’t want to jump with me again. Got sick of it, went to tunnel. On next jump I did L4,5,6,7,8 combine, become popular (kidding). No problems after that. Another VERY important thing. If you would want to continue with RW, you better off learning right flying position, the box they teach on AFF is just for survival. The tunnel isn’t cheap, but this is the best investment you can make so far. Later on you will spend years and much more $ to fix wrong flying. My wife did tandem and will do AFF soon. But not before she does the tunnel camp. You will get stable in the air in 5-10 min of tunnel time (~$100). Based on my very limited experience (3 hours in tunnel), I’d go for the camp right away. Feel free to pm me. Good luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ncrowe 0 #13 April 15, 2004 Looks like pretty much everything has been covered, I had the same problem with level 4 ... the dreaded 360's........a few things that added to me finally "getting it" 1. Spending 10 mins in a tunnel with a coach. 2. Switching to an instructor that spent a lot of time with me on the ground working on body position 3. Keeping my chin up instead of looking down. 4. Finally relaxing and putting a huge smile on my face. My problem with turns was I wasn't keeping my back straight and I was twisting my torso instead of just using my arms and head. A good tunnel coach will get you lined out quickly. "Don't Mess Around With the Guy in Shades- Oh No!!! " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Phillbo 11 #14 April 15, 2004 Square your knees and tap your toes a couple times Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZoneRat 0 #15 April 15, 2004 Pah. Failing L4 twice is chicken feed! I know folk that failed it over half a dozen times! But... they eventually got it... and you will too.I have one friend that snuck away embarrassed to the tunnel when he failed it. That little trip helped him tremendously! When he came back he completely nailed it... along with the rest of AFF. Yeah. Lots of folk have problems with L4. No shame in that. I failed L7. No one fails L7... People that failed L4 EIGHT times were giving me grief! At the time it just killed me. But now, like all the myriad others that struggled on one level or another... it makes no difference to me or anyone else that I had to take l7 twice. It only makes a difference if you quit. If not, you eventually become a skydiver.“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites reese 0 #16 April 15, 2004 Wow! Thanks for all the great advice and encouraging words. I'm feeling a lot more positive about my progression now, just knowing that so many other people can and have had trouble with AFF and eventually make it to full-fledged licensed skydiver status. The detailed tips I think will be invaluable in the long run. Again the positive words make a big difference. I'm going to go for L4 again this weekend. If I don;t pass I think I'm going to head up to Perris and put in some tunnel time. Also, after taking in all that has been said, I'm going to request to work with 1 or two specific instructors who are willing to spend some time with me on the ground, instead of being handed off to a different one each time who rushes me up in the sky and down to the ground and hurries on to their next jump with a different student. Be sure, I WILL be a skydiver! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Adrenaline16 0 #17 April 16, 2004 I had the same problem when i was going through freefall progression. I couldnt stop stimulating dem helicopters . It was scary cause i was starting to ask myself if this sport was really meant for me, but the hard work paid off, cause i can now have tons of fun in the sky. After failing lvl 2 once and level 4 twice, my instructor brought me to the wind tunnel and it helped lots, the next jump i made, i was completly stable, and i never spun again. So don't give up and u'll get there! I wish you the best of luck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Reginald 0 #18 April 17, 2004 QuotePah. Failing L4 twice is chicken feed! I know folk that failed it over half a dozen times! But... they eventually got it... and you will too.I have one friend that snuck away embarrassed to the tunnel when he failed it. That little trip helped him tremendously! When he came back he completely nailed it... along with the rest of AFF. LOL. Hey I think you are talking about me! It wasn't so much I snuck off embarrassed as I snuck off determined because I was NOT going to fail a level again (and yes it was 6 times)! Just the expense of repeating the levels was out of control and the wind tunnel looked cheap comparatively. I mean $160 per jump over and over compared to $185 in tunnel time for 10 minutes…no comparison. Reese, GO TO THE TUNNEL. I had the same problem, uncontrollable turns/spins and it was frustrating as all hell. Within 10 minutes in the tunnel I could do everything I needed to do to pass AFF except flips (which they won’t do in a tunnel except in a very advanced progression due to safety issues). 10 minutes of coached tunnel time will do you wonders, 30 will let you have mussel memory. Dude, JUST GO TO THE TUNNEL! From someone that has been exactly where you are I can tell you it will solve all of your problems. Just do it! Hey Zone Rat, at least I didn't fail L7...how embarrassing. No one fails L 7! I don't think I would tell anyone about that! "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites themitchyone 0 #19 April 17, 2004 Reese, Spinning out of control is exactly what I faced during AFF, except it didn't happen to me until later. I had to repeat level 7. I was spinning like a helicopter, and I was scared. I couldn't barely stop the spinning to pull. I went in the wind tunnel for 10 minutes and this helped me tremendously. I was not keeping my spine straight on turns as well as pushing one arm forward at the shoulder instead of the symmetrical movement of both arms. You may be doing these things. The tunnel straightened me out. Also, an instructor recommend if I start to spin to tap my toes together to make sure my legs are even. Also, I find the rush factor affected me. Having to complete so many tasks in so short a time made me feel rushed. Remember to take one thing a a time, for example, turn, stop, then move forward. Rushing from movement to movement also contributed to my spinning. I took lots of time with my AFF, i.e., I only completed one level in one day. But I asked tons of questions, and told them I didn't want to be rushed, and they were always cool with this."If the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to girl's sports such as hot oil wrestling and foxy boxing." - Homer Simpson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VivaHeadDown 0 #20 April 17, 2004 Relax, everything else will come if you just smile. I know it sounds silly, but I've seen it work too many times to go with anything else. We'd be glad to have you in the tunnel! We get a lot of people with your story who return later to learn more advanced skills because it helped so much on AFF. We can show you exactly why you are turning and other details like that, but the number one thing we're going to focus on is learning how to relax and have fun. If you smile, you instantly start flying better because it relaxes you. If you're tense it'll take you that much longer to learn stuff because you are less aware of your body and what it is doing. Don't Confuse Me With My Own Words Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ripcords 0 #21 April 18, 2004 Just checking in to see how you made out this weekend. I also would definitely encourage the use of the tunnel. It helps not only with specific skills, but gives you the confidence to be able to relax in freefall. When students get into an uncontrollable turn they tend to tense up. When you tense your muscles, it tends to increase the spin problem. Relaxing is definitely key. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nael 0 #22 April 18, 2004 I hope you went ok if you jumped this past weekend. I'm doing AFF now, did levels 3 and 4 this weekend. On level 3 when the instructors let go of me I was fine, didnt even realise they'de let go, great hover control, I was so happy. Then today with level 4, I was turning and getting so frustrated during the jump because (like you) I was having trouble stopping the turn, and once I stopped it, I'd start turning the other way! My instructor was impressed because I did a 360 and stopped on heading, the only problem is I had absolutely NO IDEA i'd done it! My confidence is a bit shaken at the moment too, because although I passed the levels, I feel like I dont have enough awareness of whats actually going on up there. Until today, all my jumps have been about passing the levels. Now, I just want to jump to learn to fly properly. I'm doing level 5 next week, and I dont expect to pass it first go but I am really looking forward to it because I know I'm going to learn a lot from it anyway. Good luck with your AFF, do the tunnel time! I'm really jealous about that because I live in australia where wind tunnels are non existant, so I need to learn as much as possible in the 45 seconds of freefall I have each week. So, right now I have about 4 minutes of skydiving experience, no wonder I'm not aceing it yet! Good luck to you, and be persistant!www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
firstime 0 #8 April 14, 2004 had the same problem, the instructors told me what I was doing wrong but I thought "no way I did that". Next 4 jumps were video, your instructors can see what your doing because they are right there but I guess some people have to see it to believe it. Hey a training video is alot cheaper than a redo. Good luck brother, you'll get it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flygirl03 0 #9 April 14, 2004 My advise??? DON'T GIVE UP..... It took me 26 jump to graduate AFF!!!!! and FINALLY jump solo. You will get it. You have gotten some very good tips here. Just believe in yourself1 If I can do it, Anyone can. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ earthbound misfit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RkyMtnHigh 0 #10 April 14, 2004 #1 Is it normal to have so little time with the instructor before the jump past level 2? I had instructors that gave me a LOT of briefing and debriefing which was very important for my learning style, so I think that is very important for the student to really understand the do's, don't, and why's of the sequence of the dive and expectations. Demand the time you need..that's what you're paying for! #2 Am I or am I not justified in feeling rushed and like I'm not getting the instruction I need to progess through AFF? Skydiving is not a "sport" to feel rushed. Even after AFF, there have been loads that needed one or two more jumpers so it could go, and I volunteered to go, but wasn't geared up and ready and as soon as I put my name on the load, they gave a NOW CALL! I threw on my rig and gear so fast that when I jumped out, I was so loose in everything and dangling in my harness..that I'm not kuhl about being rushed again..ALSO..another "Rush" situation is when I was spotting or trying to time my exit between the previous group or person and others behind me yell "GO!" and they can't see what I see, they're just excited about their jump..I'm not allowing that anymore either! Just go with your gut and if it doesn't feel right..don't do it! This isn't rollerskating! #3 What can I do to stop my turns? Are there common mistakes students make on these levels? Any technical advice would be much appreciated. There are several things and I am SURELY NOT an expert, but I repeated MOST levels during AFF, until L5-L7, so I can say I understand what you're going through. Common mistakes for me at your Level were *keep your heading and correct to stay on heading*, *did you do toe taps to make sure that your legs are even? that helps!* An example that helped me was to think about your body as a car driving down a curvy road and as the curves come about, you need to respond with your steering wheel (our shoulders and arms) to stay on course and keep your eyes on the road ahead. #4 I live fairly close to a wind tunnel. Would this really help me? Should I spend time in the tunnel before I try to get through AFF 4 and 5 again? YES YES YES!! If it's close and you can afford it, I've heard from so many that it shortens your learning curve. I absolutely love to skydive and want this to be a part of my life. But I'm starting to get frustrated and feel like maybe I just don't "get it". At what point should I call it quits? I wouldn't quit at all except for that little thing called $$$... YOU ARE LIKE MORE OF US THAN YOU REALIZE... I got frustrated too! and thought that I just didn't "get it" either and I can diagnose that RIGHT NOW! You are putting so much pressure on yourself and are a perfectionist. And, that also means something else...that you aren't relaxing in the skydive. I PROMISE YOU!!...once you discover what it feels like to enjoy your skydive and really RELAX..it's cake from there. Your lightbulb will go off and you'll have so many "ah ha" moments. You know, my JMs said that there is so much pressure and intensity during AFF that it's no wonder students struggle with the KEY component of relaxing! Good luck to you and remember..we're all here to cheer you on and celebrate your successes! Hang in there! _________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoShitThereIWas 0 #11 April 14, 2004 I also forgot to mention that stiffness on one side of your body compared to relaxation on the other can also induce a turn. Turns and sideslides are often accomplished by applying some type of pressure or resistance to the relative wind. The relative wind is just the pocket of air you are being supported by. Forward movement (Level 2) and Tracking (Level 5 and/or 6) are also based on the same principles. Extend your legs and you increase surface area at the lower half of your body. You, the falling "object" is unbalanced in a sense. More leg surface area vs. upper body surface area exposed to the relative wind=Forward movement. The same applies for turns or head down or any body orientation. OK, so I'm done rambling and I'm a bored insomniac tonight I just thought I'd share my thoughts. Stick with it, try to relax, when the door opens take a nice deep breath. Remember why it is that you returned to that very position and why it is that you went there to begin with. Believe in yourself, respect your elders in the sport, listen to your instincts, practice on the ground until you "get it" and don't forget to breathe and relax. You can do it! Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RW16 0 #12 April 15, 2004 I failed L4 3 times. My first AFFI didn’t want to jump with me again. Got sick of it, went to tunnel. On next jump I did L4,5,6,7,8 combine, become popular (kidding). No problems after that. Another VERY important thing. If you would want to continue with RW, you better off learning right flying position, the box they teach on AFF is just for survival. The tunnel isn’t cheap, but this is the best investment you can make so far. Later on you will spend years and much more $ to fix wrong flying. My wife did tandem and will do AFF soon. But not before she does the tunnel camp. You will get stable in the air in 5-10 min of tunnel time (~$100). Based on my very limited experience (3 hours in tunnel), I’d go for the camp right away. Feel free to pm me. Good luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ncrowe 0 #13 April 15, 2004 Looks like pretty much everything has been covered, I had the same problem with level 4 ... the dreaded 360's........a few things that added to me finally "getting it" 1. Spending 10 mins in a tunnel with a coach. 2. Switching to an instructor that spent a lot of time with me on the ground working on body position 3. Keeping my chin up instead of looking down. 4. Finally relaxing and putting a huge smile on my face. My problem with turns was I wasn't keeping my back straight and I was twisting my torso instead of just using my arms and head. A good tunnel coach will get you lined out quickly. "Don't Mess Around With the Guy in Shades- Oh No!!! " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phillbo 11 #14 April 15, 2004 Square your knees and tap your toes a couple times Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZoneRat 0 #15 April 15, 2004 Pah. Failing L4 twice is chicken feed! I know folk that failed it over half a dozen times! But... they eventually got it... and you will too.I have one friend that snuck away embarrassed to the tunnel when he failed it. That little trip helped him tremendously! When he came back he completely nailed it... along with the rest of AFF. Yeah. Lots of folk have problems with L4. No shame in that. I failed L7. No one fails L7... People that failed L4 EIGHT times were giving me grief! At the time it just killed me. But now, like all the myriad others that struggled on one level or another... it makes no difference to me or anyone else that I had to take l7 twice. It only makes a difference if you quit. If not, you eventually become a skydiver.“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reese 0 #16 April 15, 2004 Wow! Thanks for all the great advice and encouraging words. I'm feeling a lot more positive about my progression now, just knowing that so many other people can and have had trouble with AFF and eventually make it to full-fledged licensed skydiver status. The detailed tips I think will be invaluable in the long run. Again the positive words make a big difference. I'm going to go for L4 again this weekend. If I don;t pass I think I'm going to head up to Perris and put in some tunnel time. Also, after taking in all that has been said, I'm going to request to work with 1 or two specific instructors who are willing to spend some time with me on the ground, instead of being handed off to a different one each time who rushes me up in the sky and down to the ground and hurries on to their next jump with a different student. Be sure, I WILL be a skydiver! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adrenaline16 0 #17 April 16, 2004 I had the same problem when i was going through freefall progression. I couldnt stop stimulating dem helicopters . It was scary cause i was starting to ask myself if this sport was really meant for me, but the hard work paid off, cause i can now have tons of fun in the sky. After failing lvl 2 once and level 4 twice, my instructor brought me to the wind tunnel and it helped lots, the next jump i made, i was completly stable, and i never spun again. So don't give up and u'll get there! I wish you the best of luck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Reginald 0 #18 April 17, 2004 QuotePah. Failing L4 twice is chicken feed! I know folk that failed it over half a dozen times! But... they eventually got it... and you will too.I have one friend that snuck away embarrassed to the tunnel when he failed it. That little trip helped him tremendously! When he came back he completely nailed it... along with the rest of AFF. LOL. Hey I think you are talking about me! It wasn't so much I snuck off embarrassed as I snuck off determined because I was NOT going to fail a level again (and yes it was 6 times)! Just the expense of repeating the levels was out of control and the wind tunnel looked cheap comparatively. I mean $160 per jump over and over compared to $185 in tunnel time for 10 minutes…no comparison. Reese, GO TO THE TUNNEL. I had the same problem, uncontrollable turns/spins and it was frustrating as all hell. Within 10 minutes in the tunnel I could do everything I needed to do to pass AFF except flips (which they won’t do in a tunnel except in a very advanced progression due to safety issues). 10 minutes of coached tunnel time will do you wonders, 30 will let you have mussel memory. Dude, JUST GO TO THE TUNNEL! From someone that has been exactly where you are I can tell you it will solve all of your problems. Just do it! Hey Zone Rat, at least I didn't fail L7...how embarrassing. No one fails L 7! I don't think I would tell anyone about that! "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites themitchyone 0 #19 April 17, 2004 Reese, Spinning out of control is exactly what I faced during AFF, except it didn't happen to me until later. I had to repeat level 7. I was spinning like a helicopter, and I was scared. I couldn't barely stop the spinning to pull. I went in the wind tunnel for 10 minutes and this helped me tremendously. I was not keeping my spine straight on turns as well as pushing one arm forward at the shoulder instead of the symmetrical movement of both arms. You may be doing these things. The tunnel straightened me out. Also, an instructor recommend if I start to spin to tap my toes together to make sure my legs are even. Also, I find the rush factor affected me. Having to complete so many tasks in so short a time made me feel rushed. Remember to take one thing a a time, for example, turn, stop, then move forward. Rushing from movement to movement also contributed to my spinning. I took lots of time with my AFF, i.e., I only completed one level in one day. But I asked tons of questions, and told them I didn't want to be rushed, and they were always cool with this."If the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to girl's sports such as hot oil wrestling and foxy boxing." - Homer Simpson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VivaHeadDown 0 #20 April 17, 2004 Relax, everything else will come if you just smile. I know it sounds silly, but I've seen it work too many times to go with anything else. We'd be glad to have you in the tunnel! We get a lot of people with your story who return later to learn more advanced skills because it helped so much on AFF. We can show you exactly why you are turning and other details like that, but the number one thing we're going to focus on is learning how to relax and have fun. If you smile, you instantly start flying better because it relaxes you. If you're tense it'll take you that much longer to learn stuff because you are less aware of your body and what it is doing. Don't Confuse Me With My Own Words Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ripcords 0 #21 April 18, 2004 Just checking in to see how you made out this weekend. I also would definitely encourage the use of the tunnel. It helps not only with specific skills, but gives you the confidence to be able to relax in freefall. When students get into an uncontrollable turn they tend to tense up. When you tense your muscles, it tends to increase the spin problem. Relaxing is definitely key. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nael 0 #22 April 18, 2004 I hope you went ok if you jumped this past weekend. I'm doing AFF now, did levels 3 and 4 this weekend. On level 3 when the instructors let go of me I was fine, didnt even realise they'de let go, great hover control, I was so happy. Then today with level 4, I was turning and getting so frustrated during the jump because (like you) I was having trouble stopping the turn, and once I stopped it, I'd start turning the other way! My instructor was impressed because I did a 360 and stopped on heading, the only problem is I had absolutely NO IDEA i'd done it! My confidence is a bit shaken at the moment too, because although I passed the levels, I feel like I dont have enough awareness of whats actually going on up there. Until today, all my jumps have been about passing the levels. Now, I just want to jump to learn to fly properly. I'm doing level 5 next week, and I dont expect to pass it first go but I am really looking forward to it because I know I'm going to learn a lot from it anyway. Good luck with your AFF, do the tunnel time! I'm really jealous about that because I live in australia where wind tunnels are non existant, so I need to learn as much as possible in the 45 seconds of freefall I have each week. So, right now I have about 4 minutes of skydiving experience, no wonder I'm not aceing it yet! Good luck to you, and be persistant!www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Reginald 0 #18 April 17, 2004 QuotePah. Failing L4 twice is chicken feed! I know folk that failed it over half a dozen times! But... they eventually got it... and you will too.I have one friend that snuck away embarrassed to the tunnel when he failed it. That little trip helped him tremendously! When he came back he completely nailed it... along with the rest of AFF. LOL. Hey I think you are talking about me! It wasn't so much I snuck off embarrassed as I snuck off determined because I was NOT going to fail a level again (and yes it was 6 times)! Just the expense of repeating the levels was out of control and the wind tunnel looked cheap comparatively. I mean $160 per jump over and over compared to $185 in tunnel time for 10 minutes…no comparison. Reese, GO TO THE TUNNEL. I had the same problem, uncontrollable turns/spins and it was frustrating as all hell. Within 10 minutes in the tunnel I could do everything I needed to do to pass AFF except flips (which they won’t do in a tunnel except in a very advanced progression due to safety issues). 10 minutes of coached tunnel time will do you wonders, 30 will let you have mussel memory. Dude, JUST GO TO THE TUNNEL! From someone that has been exactly where you are I can tell you it will solve all of your problems. Just do it! Hey Zone Rat, at least I didn't fail L7...how embarrassing. No one fails L 7! I don't think I would tell anyone about that! "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themitchyone 0 #19 April 17, 2004 Reese, Spinning out of control is exactly what I faced during AFF, except it didn't happen to me until later. I had to repeat level 7. I was spinning like a helicopter, and I was scared. I couldn't barely stop the spinning to pull. I went in the wind tunnel for 10 minutes and this helped me tremendously. I was not keeping my spine straight on turns as well as pushing one arm forward at the shoulder instead of the symmetrical movement of both arms. You may be doing these things. The tunnel straightened me out. Also, an instructor recommend if I start to spin to tap my toes together to make sure my legs are even. Also, I find the rush factor affected me. Having to complete so many tasks in so short a time made me feel rushed. Remember to take one thing a a time, for example, turn, stop, then move forward. Rushing from movement to movement also contributed to my spinning. I took lots of time with my AFF, i.e., I only completed one level in one day. But I asked tons of questions, and told them I didn't want to be rushed, and they were always cool with this."If the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to girl's sports such as hot oil wrestling and foxy boxing." - Homer Simpson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VivaHeadDown 0 #20 April 17, 2004 Relax, everything else will come if you just smile. I know it sounds silly, but I've seen it work too many times to go with anything else. We'd be glad to have you in the tunnel! We get a lot of people with your story who return later to learn more advanced skills because it helped so much on AFF. We can show you exactly why you are turning and other details like that, but the number one thing we're going to focus on is learning how to relax and have fun. If you smile, you instantly start flying better because it relaxes you. If you're tense it'll take you that much longer to learn stuff because you are less aware of your body and what it is doing. Don't Confuse Me With My Own Words Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ripcords 0 #21 April 18, 2004 Just checking in to see how you made out this weekend. I also would definitely encourage the use of the tunnel. It helps not only with specific skills, but gives you the confidence to be able to relax in freefall. When students get into an uncontrollable turn they tend to tense up. When you tense your muscles, it tends to increase the spin problem. Relaxing is definitely key. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nael 0 #22 April 18, 2004 I hope you went ok if you jumped this past weekend. I'm doing AFF now, did levels 3 and 4 this weekend. On level 3 when the instructors let go of me I was fine, didnt even realise they'de let go, great hover control, I was so happy. Then today with level 4, I was turning and getting so frustrated during the jump because (like you) I was having trouble stopping the turn, and once I stopped it, I'd start turning the other way! My instructor was impressed because I did a 360 and stopped on heading, the only problem is I had absolutely NO IDEA i'd done it! My confidence is a bit shaken at the moment too, because although I passed the levels, I feel like I dont have enough awareness of whats actually going on up there. Until today, all my jumps have been about passing the levels. Now, I just want to jump to learn to fly properly. I'm doing level 5 next week, and I dont expect to pass it first go but I am really looking forward to it because I know I'm going to learn a lot from it anyway. Good luck with your AFF, do the tunnel time! I'm really jealous about that because I live in australia where wind tunnels are non existant, so I need to learn as much as possible in the 45 seconds of freefall I have each week. So, right now I have about 4 minutes of skydiving experience, no wonder I'm not aceing it yet! Good luck to you, and be persistant!www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
