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WrongWay

Are you a good judge of character? (skydive related)

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We would all agree that some people are meant to skydive and some people aren't.

Let's say you had a friend who comes to you out of the blue one day and says "I want to skydive and BASE jump". You've known this person for a long time, and you know them to be irresponsible, clumsy, opinionated, lacking common sense, closed minded, and very immature.

Would you take them to the dropzone to start them off, or would you turn them away?

If you answered to turn them away, do you think this would be helping/hurting the sport as a whole?

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

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did that person do a tandem yet ???
maybe he can then realise if it can be an activity for him or not...
what if someone is already a skydiver with around 200 jumps but you take yourself off the load when he is in cause you don't want to share airspace with him ??
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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irresponsible, clumsy, opinionated, lacking common sense, closed minded, and very immature.



Its not like there arent any of those at DZs already....:S



True, that's why this is kind of a "If you could prevent this, would you? Should you?" question.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

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did that person do a tandem yet ???
maybe he can then realise if it can be an activity for him or not...
what if someone is already a skydiver with around 200 jumps but you take yourself off the load when he is in cause you don't want to share airspace with him ??



Hypothetically, let's say they've already done one tandem and think they know tons about the sport.

Yeah I've done that before....:S

This isn't a real situation, though I've been in this before and turned the person away for their own safety (and others....). This is for curiosity's sake and to give people something to think about.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

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Skydiving has straightened out a few people too.
Who's to say that this guy would not be one of those who greatly benifit from skydiving.
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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if it was a friend, I would get in a serious discussion with him, to explain that it might be great fun to skydive, but that there is a strict background, rules to follow, and that not only your life is involved but also the ones of the people on the load, plus people on the ground.
concerning the BASE stuff, as I am not into it (yet), just wait and see... It's not an activity where you have a second chance...
If it was not such a good friend, I just wouldn't bring him to the DZ, and tell him that whatever he does, just that he remembers to be safe.
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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you know them to be irresponsible, clumsy, opinionated, lacking common sense, closed minded, and very immature.



All the fundamental traits for the makings of a great canopy swooper. ;)

Ya know, after trying to predict which students are going to do well and which are going to do poorly for awhile now; I've given up. You can have folks do everything perfectly in class and shit the bed on the dive. Conversely, I've had folks scaring the shit outta me in class and me gritting my teeth on the dive wondering, "When is it going to turn to shit?" only to have them perform immaculately.

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I see Ron must have gotten to you, but that is another thread.

Anyhow, I have taught too many of these problem childern in the skydiving world. Some of them actually turned out to be pretty good at it, others sadly have been hurt or worse. Do you turn them away or deal with them.....most of the time I deal with them. I am ashamed to tell you some of the people I have taught, because they leave a bad mark on every drop zone they visit. But, I have actually only told two people (in 18 years as a JM)that this may not be the sport for them and they were not of the type you are talking about.

So in answer to your question, if their money is green (I am going to catch it for this one), I would give them a chance.
blue skies,

art

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you know them to be irresponsible, clumsy, opinionated, lacking common sense, closed minded, and very immature.



This doesn't sound like anyone I would be friends with in the first place... so if some person with these traits asked me about skydiving, I would discourage them just because I wouldn't want them to be around me at all, definitely not at the dz. ;)

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I see Ron must have gotten to you, but that is another thread.



That's not the reason I posted my numbers, though it was because of all the great points in that thread, and even though he had some good ones, it was not his alone.

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I am ashamed to tell you some of the people I have taught, because they leave a bad mark on every drop zone they visit.



For what it's worth, I blame stupid decisions on the part of the decision-maker, not the instructor. To me that's like having a 16 year old kid bring a gun to school and then arresting their parents. At least you have the guts to come out and say "I've trained people that have come out like that" where others wouldn't. I've met a few jumpers that leave a bad spot on every dz they come across, and never once have I thought "what the hell was their instructor thinking??". It's a person who makes bad choices, not their teacher who taught them otherwise.

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So in answer to your question, if their money is green (I am going to catch it for this one), I would give them a chance.



Yup you probably will, but I won't be the one to do it. I understand that in most cases bringing new people to the sport is a risk because you never know how they'll turn out. By teaching them, in a sense you not only take their very lives into your hands, but you also put your own reputation on the line with every A license you sign off. Still, I understand the need for a paycheck, as well as a desire to help others, give back to the sport, and see the smile on the face of a guy who just got his A, so I don't blame you one bit for needing a paycheck for doing all of that. I respect you for your experience and for just making the effort to try to turn these people into good safe skydivers, whether they listen or not is their choice.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

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I never encourage people to skydive. If they get hurt (even slightly), they and their SO will blame you.

People either really, really want to, or they don't.
If someone wants to, give them information.

Not everyone will become super-duper at something. However, all the participants together provide a better level of the sport.

Example: If only people who would become black belts entered martial arts, an instructor could not afford to run a studio.

All those other people on the Otter allow you do be in that Otter, instead of a Cessna.

Also, they don't have to be national champs, they just have to be safe. They can enjoy the sport at their level of skill and that is ok. It is supposed to be all about fun.

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I would never turn someone away from the dropzone before making a single jump. I encourage everyone to take a tandem, and if that goes well, AFF.

I am pretty good at figuring out who will, and will not make it all the way through to the end of AFF. I leave it up to them and their instructors to make this call, though.

_Am
__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

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I'd bring em to the dz for a tandem. If they choose to continue from there, it's up to them and their instructors to determine the rest. Think about how much you and everyone else have grown within this sport. That person may be able to benefit from the same thing. If they really want to jump, they'll do it with or without your consent. So, you might as well bring that business to your dz. Right?

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I was one of those problem children when I was a student. Heck, my JMs were almost to the point that they were going to draw straws to decide which one was going to tell me to give up the sport.

I say give the student every chance, it just takes some of us longer then others.
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

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Wow!! This brings to mind a young man in Ohio that couldn't land on the DZ for like, his first 30 jumps or so...they even gave him a catchy name...wrong-day....wrong-play...something like that...:P I heard through the grapevine that he removed his head from his fourth point of contact and turned out to be a great skydiver...guess there's hope for all of us!:ph34r:

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:S I got off a load for that reason at the boogie! (Yep, I sat out a possible jump!!![:/])

Didn't think I'd ever see the day. But there are some psychos out there...>:(



because of me and pa2themd and our 3way ??? hope not... Just PM me if I scare you :)
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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Good girl. Never jump with anyone that you think is unsafe. The more jumps you get, the more you will be able to read people and get out of the way.

I do lots of load organizing at the WFFC, and I'm never worried about telling someone that I won't jump with them, because I think they are unsafe.
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

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Send 'em all to the dropzone.

Let God sort them out ;)

Seriously, I haven't turned anyone away from the sport, but I have explained in great detail the risks and the mitigations, and I stress repeatedly that only they can decide if the risk is acceptable to them or not. I will not twist anyone's arm to make a skydive because accepting the risk is such a personal decision. After that, an instructor is probably a better judge of their potential than I am. Eventually time will tell.

I take this approach because I have seen a lot of people that I never would have expected become very good skydivers, and I have seen the opposite as well.

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im a firm believer in the helmet sticker theory as far as judging character, and it plays out into any sport where a helmet is used, the more stickers they have on the helmet, the more scared they are!

laugh all you want, but you know its true.:P



Hahaha, I don't have any stickers on either of mine......B|

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

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