elfanie 0 #76 January 22, 2004 Quote Skiing is safer than skydiving. I wonder about this. My father in law is an avid snow skiier...and I remember his doctor presenting him with an award on his 50th birthday for "one full year without injury" because he was injured so very often. I wonder what the statistics for snowskiing injuries and deaths are... Quote dang ... what else have I done which might be considered unsafe? Skydiving is safer than sex with an unknown partner. Wow....reading through this list... you're a busy boy!! I honestly can't think of anything that I've done that carries more risk than skydiving. Maybe my job..because being around all of the fluids and such opens me up to some pretty icky diseases...but I also protect myself with gloves and we do ask moms if they have any contagious diseases and test for some of them..(but some of my clients I have known were HIV or HepB +....universal precautions!!...) Skydiving is probably the riskiest thing I"ve engaged in. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pkasdorf 0 #77 January 22, 2004 Quote Skydiving is safer than sex with an unknown partner. Hahahahaha, very good! I agree!! And I also agree on your other definitions! So maybe you voted YES... HISPA # 18 POPS # 8757 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #78 January 22, 2004 QuoteSo maybe you voted YES... I voted no. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #79 January 22, 2004 Back in the late 80s and early 90s I worked as a volunteer ski patroller for three years and a pro ski patroller for one full season (skiing 7 days a week) and two of those volunteer years were at a major ski resort in Western Canada (Lake Louise). I have seen and treated enough death and carnage on the mountains and I'm always scared when I ski with uninformed skier or boarder friends who aren't thinking of the risks they may take without paying their dues learning how to carve controlled turns (often on ice). But I still view skydiving as more dangerous than skiing. Of course skiing/boarding is dangerous as well. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowie 0 #80 January 23, 2004 Short answer I dont think it's safe. I have to admit that after a few jumps it can look safe but since being involved in this sport I have seen 5 serious (Major hospital time) injuries to divers of varying skill levels. This is a bad sport to become complacent in and I think you have to be conscious of the risk. I liked the saying somebody else posted that went something like skydiving is like commiting suicide and changing your mind in the last few seconds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #81 January 23, 2004 QuoteQuote So...the real answer is that: Skydiving is an unsafe sport that each individual has decided for themselves if they are comfortable with the level of risk that is associated with it and do what they can to mitigate the danger levels. *grabs the whip for the poor horse* If nothing in life is safe..nothing at all...then why does it need to be said, "Skydiving is an unsafe sport..." everything is unsafe with that definition...so why does that need to be said? It's almost redundant. "Baseball is an unsafe sport that each individual has decided for themselves if they are comfortable with the level of risk that is associated with it and do what they can to mitigate the danger level." In saying "skydiving is unsafe"...you're implying that the level of danger is so much above that of other activities as to require additional comments about its safety (or lack thereof). Does skydiving carry risk? of course it does! Is it the extreme of risk that someone can take in life? it can be...if you engage in certain sub-activities...but it doesn't have to be. In fact, in its basics and done conservatively, skydiving can be relatively safe (compared to other things). no it cant. name 3 other sports where you are actively dying until you do something to change that outcome? stay in the plane or get out. pull or dont. you can certainly do things to increase your odds of survival (training, gear choices, currency) and add complexity and variations to make it more dangerous (swooping, wingsuits, big ways etc...) but nothing alters the basic level of risk you take everytime you step out the door. unless you pull, you are going to die. soon. how many other sports is that statement true for?____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #82 January 23, 2004 Quoteunless you pull, you are going to die. soon. Used to be true... Now, with all the gizmos, its safe... right?Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #83 January 23, 2004 Quote[ name 3 other sports where you are actively dying until you do something to change that outcome? Top fuel drag racing Downhill ski racing Participating in the Reno Air Races... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuvToFly 0 #84 January 24, 2004 Quotename 3 other sports where you are actively dying until you do something to change that outcome? 1) Ski Jumping (you know, the big ramp where they fly through the air?) 2) Any form of conventional aviation. Take your hands off the controls, and you will die - especially in a helicopter. You must intervene to stay alive because you are hurling yourself through space - 3) A bad marriage (no explanation needed) "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #85 January 24, 2004 Quote 2) Any form of conventional aviation. Take your hands off the controls, and you will die - especially in a helicopter. You must intervene to stay alive because you are hurling yourself through space - While that may be true of some (most?) helicopters, it is not (or should not be!) true of most airplanes. Most airplanes, even without any sort of autopilot, fly just fine, straight and level, hands and feet off the controls if properly trimmed. In fact, I think you'd be pretty surprised how well some of them can fly and be controlled without functioning primary control surfaces.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #86 January 24, 2004 QuoteQuote 2) Any form of conventional aviation. Take your hands off the controls, and you will die - especially in a helicopter. You must intervene to stay alive because you are hurling yourself through space - While that may be true of some (most?) helicopters, it is not (or should not be!) true of most airplanes. Most airplanes, even without any sort of autopilot, fly just fine, straight and level, hands and feet off the controls if properly trimmed. In fact, I think you'd be pretty surprised how well some of them can fly and be controlled without functioning primary control surfaces. Until the fuel runs out. Remember what happened to Payne Stewart's plane.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #87 January 24, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuote 2) Any form of conventional aviation. Take your hands off the controls, and you will die - especially in a helicopter. You must intervene to stay alive because you are hurling yourself through space - While that may be true of some (most?) helicopters, it is not (or should not be!) true of most airplanes. Most airplanes, even without any sort of autopilot, fly just fine, straight and level, hands and feet off the controls if properly trimmed. In fact, I think you'd be pretty surprised how well some of them can fly and be controlled without functioning primary control surfaces. Until the fuel runs out. Remember what happened to Payne Stewart's plane. Or until it hits volcanic ash in the dead of night, with no warning. Quote 1982 June 24th. Indonesia, Jakarta, British Airways Boeing 747, simultaneous failure of all four engines due to volcanic ash, landed safe They went from 37,000' to 12,000' before clearing the ash (which they didn't even know was there, and -why- their engines quite) before getting their engines started again! They ALL thought they were as good as dead, there 3 hours out over the Indian Ocean! Yikes! ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuvToFly 0 #88 January 24, 2004 QuoteQuote 2) Any form of conventional aviation. Take your hands off the controls, and you will die - especially in a helicopter. You must intervene to stay alive because you are hurling yourself through space - While that may be true of some (most?) helicopters, it is not (or should not be!) true of most airplanes. Most airplanes, even without any sort of autopilot, fly just fine, straight and level, hands and feet off the controls if properly trimmed. In fact, I think you'd be pretty surprised how well some of them can fly and be controlled without functioning primary control surfaces. That is not correct, and denies the physics, fellow skydiving friend - I speak from experience - I am a licensed pilot for both fixed wing and helicopter, and can speak to this. Helicopters are known in aviation as "inherently unstable" This makes them different than planes in that you cannot release your hands from the controls - particularly the cyclic control. Inherently unstable means that it WANTS TO CRASH - you have to keep it from doing that. If you let go of the controls - YOU WILL die, and quickly. You must intervene, or you will be tumbling towards your death. For airplanes, theoretically, a plane will continue to fly if you could trim it up perfectly, and continue perfectly on that course AS LONG AS THE FORCES AGAINST IT REMAIN UTTERLY CONSTANT. As we know - that is not possible. Variations in air density, winds aloft, barametric pressure and temperature can all affect the course of a the plane. If this was not true, autopilots in big airlines would be redundant. The fact of the matter is that a plane WOULD crash and you would die if you did not intervene in the case of an airplane as well - because it will NOT continue to fly straight and level because the forces acting against plane change as it travels through the air. "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bshl 0 #89 January 25, 2004 I think most everyone who does anything risky thinks their sport is less risky than others simply because they understand it. Snowboarding down diamond runs is suicide for the inexperienced but snowboarding's not exactly an extreme sport. It's all about perspective... Blue skies and happy landings! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #90 January 26, 2004 After Bobsled, Skeleton, Skiing since 3, motorcycle since 4, I have to say that jumping is safe. (I was never in a car accident or constant chance of hitting paved or cemented areas while jumping + folks with cells phones and a streering wheel)_______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #91 January 26, 2004 QuoteAfter Bobsled, Skeleton, Skiing since 3, motorcycle since 4, I have to say that jumping is safe Maybe "safer", but still not safe. Skydiving is safer than russian roulet. Russian roulet is safer than jumping off a building without a rig. But that does not make russian roulet "Safe" BTW grant how many jumps do you have?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velo90 0 #92 January 26, 2004 QuoteRussian roulet is safer than jumping off a building with a rig. But that does not make russian roulet "Safe" Sorry, but without more details I cannot agree with this statement. How high is the building and what type of rig? Training is also important, not for russian roulette, but for the base jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #93 January 26, 2004 QuoteRussian roulet is safer than jumping off a building without a rig. But that does not make russian roulet "Safe" sorry that should read WITHOUT"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #94 January 27, 2004 d QuoteQuoteAfter Bobsled, Skeleton, Skiing since 3 Competed-DownHill/still have my 223 skis), motorcycle since 4, I have to say that jumping is safe Maybe "safer", but still not safe. Skydiving is safer than russian roulet. Russian roulet is safer than jumping off a building without a rig. But that does not make russian roulet "Safe" BTW grant how many jumps do you have? I have a limited # of jumps at 132, compared to you but, in motorcycle exp. now that's the other story. (I don't play with guns either)roulette My fathers last Bobsled in '65 World Cup race, Sergio Sardini had his head crushed in front of my mom and his wife, Austria and Switzland they used to take our by-standards too. It's safer now but, I used to break bones and bleeding bruises on some of my fastest runs in Skeleton. I am conservative and trying to learn but, my statement such as others have said also, that statistically speaking(USPA reports I read since 1991), I feel safer. I do not intend to have a disagreement with you as I plan to move to the Z-Hills area and most likely will need coaching from you. My thoughts on the matter are from "what I was told, I read & experienced(I've seen my friend's femur & 2 deaths". I don't swoop and DO look for guidance at every opportunity. (I'd rather stay jumping. after 29yrs and 9months of motorcycles) Sold my bikes,no more track days= new gear_______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #95 January 27, 2004 QuoteI have a limited # of jumps at 132, compared to you but, in motorcycle exp. now that's the other story. My opinion is that as you get more jumps, and spend more time in the sport you might change your mind. A big differemce between motorcycles and skydiving is motorcycles have brakes...If you feel that things are going to fast you can stop. In skydiving the whole part of skydiving is to stop...And sometimes its not easy. I don't know enough about Bobsled or Skeleton to say anything... I mean I have watched it, but never done it. QuoteMy thoughts on the matter are from "what I was told, I read & experienced(I've seen my friend's femur & 2 deaths". I have seen WAY to many Femurs to even count. And I see about one death every two years...I know someone who bounces every year. I think after a little while your opinion of the sport might change some...I could be wrong."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #96 January 27, 2004 QuoteIn skydiving the whole part of skydiving is to stop...And sometimes its not easy. That goes for motorcycles as well. I quit riding motorcycles for this very reason. If you fall, you will stop, it may be against the ground a light pole, car, tree, ... etc. If you hit a divider, a car or any thing else, it's the stopping that gets you. I love riding bikes but it's way too close to the ground for me. Self preservation kicked in so I reluctantly sold my bike. There's risk in many sports. In my opinion motorcycles are not less risky than Skydiving. Perhaps that's just the way I used to ride though.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #97 January 28, 2004 re: motorcycles. After 30 years of riding at age 36, I can honstly look back and tell you that I'm still here by the grace of God and not my annual safety & track courses that other motorist have not just popped me or suprise road hazards. NOt that I have much jumping behind me after 12 years of being invovled at my DZ but, I psychologically "feeL" safer jumping rather than riding. (Modern sled sports are very safe with changes since my last race='93) p.s. I may in fact change my mind in the future but, should I just be scared now and quit?_______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyDave 0 #98 January 28, 2004 QuoteFollowing the very interesting debate on whether skydiving is risky but safe I think that may be we could have consensus on this one. i can see this leading back to the is it safer than driving debate... this is debated on soooo many occasions, and should really be layed to rest by now Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pkasdorf 0 #99 January 28, 2004 QuoteQuoteFollowing the very interesting debate on whether skydiving is risky but safe I think that may be we could have consensus on this one. i can see this leading back to the is it safer than driving debate... this is debated on soooo many occasions, and should really be layed to rest by now Well, I never considered driving a risky sport, it doesn't fit in the definitions I set above! HISPA # 18 POPS # 8757 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bodyflight.Net 0 #100 January 28, 2004 I don't have alot of jumps, nor have I been around that long (less than 6 years) but mostly I hang back and pay attention. What I've learned: It CAN be safe, safer than my bi-weekly drives to the grocery store. It takes more than one mistake on a single jump to end in disaster. The more you do it, the more you increase your odds. But the questions is too vague 'safest'? What I always wonder is "Isn't throwing ourselves at the earth EXTREME enough that we have to add 'additional risk factors' ???" I just wanna jump, and live to see the next jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
