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NoShitThereIWas

Canopy decision for a once expert jumper returning to the sport. Spectre or Katana?

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For what it's worth the Crossfire gets my vote.
Jumping them for 10 years now and still not bored.
WL of 1.6-2.2 but to be honest above 2.1 the bottom end diminishes so i would stick with what Icarus recommends.

As a swoop machine the canopy does like to be loaded and the optimal WL used to be stated at 1.8.

FTR I have jumped the Katana no real complaints found it very manageable but IMO lacks the range of a XF.
Big plus tho, the Katana is very light on the fronts something some people have issues with on the XF where riser pressure builds quite quickly.

I am not suggesting high WL given your length of departure from the sport but IMO the XF does like to be loaded.
.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

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I remember this parachute!!! I think the best bet in your situation is the Crossfire-2 135. Don't waste your time with anything 7 cell or non-elliptical, you'll be bored and regret it very quickly! I have a feeling you sink out of the sky with your Spinletto 120 for a few different reasons. If you're at a higher wingloading now then previously, small details which decrease wing efficiency will be much more noticeable. Are you collapsing and stowing the slider securely and loosening your chest strap as wide as you can? This allows the wing to flatten out and generate lift more efficiently. It also makes the canopy more responsive to harness inputs due to the direct angle from your endcells to your hip rings. Also if the fabric is all 'cheese clothed out' the wing will loose lift due to lack of rigidity especially at the end of your flare. With a wing loading around 1.5 a 135sqft CF2 should be exactly what you're looking for. The recovery arc of the Katana is actually better for swooping, but the resale market is thin so I would say bad investment. People who jump these are taking almost all the risks associated with x-braces but get very little of the reward. You're much better off with a Velo for all around sport or a JVX for amateur competition. If you do start to wish the recovery arc was longer on the CF2 and you want more lift and speed out of your acceleration cycles start adding more weight. As a general rule the longer the recovery arc the better because you aren't trying to time a tight corner. Another trick to stretch out the recovery arc is to fold your risers lengthwise and stitch the trailing edge. This cuts down on parasitic drag and slows down the pendulum effect which lengthens the recovery arc. Remember any input before you fully recover from the dive is bad because you are prematurely starting your deceleration cycle which kills your swoop. Check out Nick and how he doesn't give any input except minor harness corrections until he hits the gate and the canopy has stopped accelerating on its own.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctDTGS-rek4

There's a reason he's the world record holder for distance! ;)

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Kurbe105

... I have a feeling you sink out of the sky with your Spinletto 120 for a few different reasons ...]



Brian,

Now why is it that you give it that nickname? It is my experience that the Stiletto misbehaves only if there is something wrong with the trim, the packing, or if the jumper has a body position issue, in other words, things that can possibly affect the openings on most elliptical canopies.

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peek

***... I have a feeling you sink out of the sky with your Spinletto 120 for a few different reasons ...]



Brian,

Now why is it that you give it that nickname? It is my experience that the Stiletto misbehaves only if there is something wrong with the trim, the packing, or if the jumper has a body position issue, in other words, things that can possibly affect the openings on most elliptical canopies.

And remember: the Stiletto was the 1st widely available, and commercially successful elliptical 9 cell. There were tons of them out there. And people had almost no other reference when it came to sensitive openings.
Remster

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NoShitThereIWas

That all depends.[snip]... I guess it all depends on how much SCUBA diving we end up doing...



A canopy like the Katana, Crossfire or indeed the Stiletto requires commitment to jumping, especially when highly loaded.
"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

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Thank you for the input. I think I am leaning towards a used Spectre 135 with between 4-700 jumps on it. I will demo a Crossfire2 135 when I go to Hawaii where there is wind and I am familiar with the DZ. If I fall in love with it and think I can handle it under no wind conditions and land it in tight areas, the new zero p and a little more square footage may be just what the doctor ordered. Right now I am at a 1.51 wing loading under my Stiletto 120. A 135 will put me at a 1.34 wing loading. If it is too much for me in no wind, I'll just send the CF2 back and go with a Spectre 135. I can always put fifty jumps or more on the Spectre, evaluate how much jumping I am actually doing and how "current" I plan on being. There is something to be said for soft on heading openings, if anyone has any experience with this kind of opening under a higher performance 9 cell canopy please post!
Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

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The term 'Spinletto' comes from the very flat flight characteristics and twitchiness of the canopy. The technology for the time was top notch but the world of canopy piloting and swooping has proven the effectiveness of more aggressive trim angles when it comes to generating lift with high speed landings. They turn on a dime but are quiet a bit more dangerous when it comes to swooping because of the shorter recovery arc and flatter trim angle. This creates a tendency to initiate the turn lower as to not finish the rotation high vs being able to let the canopy dive longer from a higher altitude because of a much larger and slower recovery arc.

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Kurbe105

The term 'Spinletto' comes from the very flat flight characteristics and twitchiness of the canopy. The technology for the time was top notch but the world of canopy piloting and swooping has proven the effectiveness of more aggressive trim angles when it comes to generating lift with high speed landings. They turn on a dime but are quiet a bit more dangerous when it comes to swooping because of the shorter recovery arc and flatter trim angle. This creates a tendency to initiate the turn lower as to not finish the rotation high vs being able to let the canopy dive longer from a higher altitude because of a much larger and slower recovery arc.



As far as I know, it comes from the "frequent" line twist people experienced on them, and had nothing to do with their landing characteristics.
Remster

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I'm test flying the Crossfire2 139 at Elsinore tomorrow :) I will let you know how it goes. It sounds like the perfect canopy that I am looking for. Thanks to everyone for the input and feedback, I would not be looking at this canopy had there been none.
Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

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The CF2 139 flew like a boat compared to my Stiletto 120. I do plan on putting a few more jumps on it, I was only able to put one jump on it at the Boogie because I had to work that afternoon . I honestly felt like I was under a student canopy or a 150. I loved the flare and the landing but it honestly seemed slow to me. I think the 129 would be a better fit. I'm only wingloading it at 1.31 and Icarus recommends a 1.4-1.8 I think is what I read. It opened pretty nice and slow and the pack volume is also a bit tight for my container. I could always slap on some lead and I didn't fully collapse and stow the slider which I will try on Wed. along with opening my chest strap some more to let her breathe. I felt very safe under it and like I could put it down anywhere, I was very accurate. It is definitely the confidence booster I need in a 139 but I am afraid I will be bored. I do want to try and do a little more with the canopy, it was my first jump back at Elsinore since by two jumps back in 04 and I was solo so pretty much just getting acclimated to the DZ. The performance felt a bit sluggish but I think it was due to wing loading being too light and also I think the control lines could use a little shortening. I did love it more than my Stiletto though! I plan on putting 3 more jumps on her at Elsinore on Wed. but I think the CF2 129 is going to be the one I want to buy. Thanks for all the help!
Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

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