My landings went from good to SPLAT! What to do??

[ReLLiK75 0]

I used to have no problems on landing. Now, for whatever reason (and especially on low/no wind days) I crash and burn on all my landings. Fortuntely, I know how to PLF, so aside from a few aches and scratches, I haven't gotten hurt--yet. It's also a pain in the ass to have to come home after jumping and clean grass stains from my rig.

I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong that's causing my terrible landings. I've tried two stage flaring, but it just doesn't slow me down enough. Same with a single, smooth flare all the way in. Both results are the same--me coming in way too fast and having to PLF. These terrible landings are really killing my motivation to jump, too. I really want to have someone watch my landing, but then I have to wait for a no/low wind day and hope that this is not the landing I'm finally going to get hurt on.

Like I said, I used to have no problems with my landings. I don't do any high performance approaches or anything. I've got about 50 jumps on my Pilot 168 and I know my break lines are not too long because I can look up, and with my toggles all the way up, I see a nice gentle bow in the lines. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I may do to prevent my crash landings? Aside from coaching and actually having someone watch me crash, is there any other way to break this slump???

Thanks!

__________________________________________
Have you Got Flare?

[skybytch 259]

I had the same problem... until I took a canopy control course. In the 30-ish jumps I've done since I've only biffed two landings bad enough to get dirty.

It's worth the time, money and effort. Get coaching.

[Jib 0]

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I've tried two stage flaring, but it just doesn't slow me down enough. Same with a single, smooth flare all the way in. Both results are the same--me coming in way too fast ...

Coaching is a great idea.
If you're not comfortable with the speed, you could always upsize until you are.
You can also try reading at PD or searching around here. Try looking at two stage flare. e.g. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=364594#364594

--------------------------------------------------
the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[gerrcoin 0]

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I've tried two stage flaring, but it just doesn't slow me down enough. Same with a single, smooth flare all the way in. Both results are the same--me coming in way too fast ...

Coaching is a great idea.
If you're not comfortable with the speed, you could always upsize until you are.

Are you using a collapsable pilotchute? Maybe try a regular pc which might add a little drag and knock a few mph off that landing. Be aware that forward penetration is going to suffer on higher wind days.

[damion75 0]

Agreed that lowering the speed might make the landing less likely to hurt, but the words of wisdom on the Pilot are that it lands really well so...

It must be some flaring problem? I went through a similar problem at a similar stage (not so long ago!) and on a Spectre legendary for good landings. It turned out that I was starting too low and just wasn't using the whole flare. Coaching has to be the way forward. I really want to do one of those canopy control courses.

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[Kris 0]

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Are you using a collapsable pilotchute? Maybe try a regular pc which might add a little drag and knock a few mph off that landing. Be aware that forward penetration is going to suffer on higher wind days.

Eh'? Creating drag on a canopy, and thereby making it stall sooner, is not the proper way.

The proper way would be for him to get with an experienced jumper/coach to figure out where his issues are.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[darkwing 4]

I jump a Pilot 168 that I load significantly higher than you. I think it likely that there is some relatively minor problem with your flare technique that can be fixed. The first thing that comes to mind is that you are letting yourself touch down before you have completed your flare stroke, and you think you are done flying the canopy. The real answer is to have an instructor, watch, and hopefully video your landings. In my view, one of the most common errors among low timers is an incomplete flare stroke, or letting up on the toggles before you and the canopy are stopped.

Keep us posted.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[ReLLiK75 0]

I don't disagree at all that coaching will definitely solve this problem. But if I have no problems landing with sufficient winds, will the coach still be able to determine what I'm doing wrong to cause me to crash with no winds?

__________________________________________
Have you Got Flare?

[MarkM 0]

Do you think you might be sabotaging your own landings? I had a nasty spill a month or so back and afterwards my landings really sucked. After thinking about it I realized a lot of it was mental, at some point in the landing I would stop flying my canopy and start prepping for a crash.

[skybytch 259]

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But if I have no problems landing with sufficient winds, will the coach still be able to determine what I'm doing wrong to cause me to crash with no winds?

Yes.

Once you learn how to flare that canopy correctly you'll be able to land well in all wind conditions. A good canopy control coach can teach you how to flare that canopy correctly regardless of the wind conditions you're jumping in - winds were around 10 most of the day I did Scott Miller's course, my landings improved in all conditions.

Did you recently downsize to your current canopy?

[ACMESkydiver 0]

do you have details on that control course? Where and what is the time frame for a course? Is it a few hours or a few days? I don't have a clue, and I'd like to attend one someday...
...I had the same problem the original poster does...great landings, then they suddenly went to hell. -I flared too late on my first jump at a new DZ, then for the remaining 4 jumps I flared too early in anticipation of screwing it up...grrrr...

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[skybytch 259]

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do you have details on that control course?

Details on the course I took are here. The course is offered at Deland but Scott will come to other dz's if asked.

Cost for the basic skills course that I did was $75 plus the price of five hop n pops. We were done in one day.

Several dz's on the west coast are offering canopy control courses now too.

[ACMESkydiver 0]

Very cool, thanks! I will hafta check it out.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[AggieDave 6]

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ut if I have no problems landing with sufficient winds, will the coach still be able to determine what I'm doing wrong to cause me to crash with no winds?

Yes!

You have a flaring problem. Get someone to video your landings and go over them with an instructor, the top swooper on your DZ or the S&TA. That is something you can do NOW.

Besure to go ahead and go to a canopy control course too, those are great, but I understand time and money, the videoing and debreifing can help you right now, on your own DZ, with no travel and most likely for the cost of a case of beer (or less).

Good luck!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[jas8472 0]

I've got a pilot 168 loaded to about 1.2, I love landing it on no wind days, it does come in quick but the pilot has a lot of flare, I find a longer slower flare than normal works best for me on no wind days.

But as everybody above has already said, get some coaching.

[crutch 0]

Wayne, have Gary and Dave said anything to you about what you are doing wrong? The other thing is during the summer landing amongst the trees there all kinds of little eddies are being created by the thermals. Landing there when there is a definite breeze is much easier than no wind days with lots of thermal activity. Ask big Dave about the canopy course he took in Deland, his landings drasticly improved when he got done with it, heck I haven't seen him crash since.

blue skies,

art

[ReLLiK75 0]

Well, right now I've been jumping at Cross Keys, so the only people who've seen my crashes are the ones who happen to be looking out in the landing area as I come (so hopefully not too many people ). I'll be back to jumping in FL for in a week or two so I'll defintely head over to Deland for the Canopy course and also try to get a few jumps in at Williston before going to Deland to see if someone there can catch what I'm doing wrong...

__________________________________________
Have you Got Flare?

[skybill 18]

Low/ no wind landing crashes!! Been there done that! Lots of factors are involved and one that nobody mentioned yet is "density altitude!" Since you say this just started recently and you had no problems before? Could be that now that warmer weather (spring/summer) is upon us, the density altitude goes up too. As the air temp. increases there are fewer molecules of air per cubic ft. of air thus the air is thinner and your parachute loses performance! Also, add in humidity and the senario gets more interesting!! As the relative humidity goes up, the air gets even thinner because for that same hot cubic foot of air, now h2o molecules displace air molecules. The glitch is that h2o molecules weigh "LESS" than air molecules.
On COLD DRY days it seems like you can glide forever and landing flares are great! Reverse the scene HOT HUMID days, no glide, no flare.
One trick I use in hot humid conditions is I loosen my chest strap so my canopy spreads a little more and I lean forward in the saddle to get my C.G. a bit more forward. I also try to have a little extra momentum in my final approach and be a little more agressive in the flare! No hot dog hook turn mind you!!!!!
I hope this helps you out. Ask your jump pilot about density altitude and how it affects his plane! Density altitude affects your canopy the same way.

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[FrogNog 1]

Are you finishing your flare? I can give myself pretty poor landings on my Hornet (same thing as Pilot) in low wind, especially in no-wind, if I don't finish my landing with the toggles as far as I can pull them.

The video someone suggested you get someone to take of your landings would help show this to you.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[Fast 0]

Getting video of your landings will let you see what your doing... but I think that the more important thing is having someone go over it with you. If you don't know what your looking for with the landings its hard to know what to change. I just took Scott's course, learned some very interesting and helpfull things in it, but to me the most important part was getting the landing videos broken down by someone who has a lot of experience looking at landing videos/landings.

Even looking at your own video it seems common to make a mistake in thinking when you are trying to decide what your doing right or wrong. Get the video taken and then get someone to go over it with you too!

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka