Professionalism is a lost art...

[pissedoffpilot 0]

Hey there skydiving world. I need some advice and I figured what better place then here.

Two weeks notice equals two weeks pay right?

Well that's what I thought until I left the DZ and was told after the fact that they decided to withhold my last weeks pay.

I was there and was happy, going above and beyond the normal duties, and recieved a phone call about an oppurtunity to better myself elsewhere. Given the market and my age this was a great oppurtunity for me to advance my hours in the air. After some thought, I decided to go for it and gave two weeks notice figuring that was professional enough. In hind sight I guess I should not have been professional to them since withholding my last weeks pay was not very professional on their part.

So I am looking for some advice from fellow pilots, skydivers, and/or professionals (lawyers).

[ladyskydiver 0]

I'm not a lawyer (and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night ) but that sounds illegal.

Did they give you a reason?

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[ianmdrennan 2]

If it's for work already done, they cannot withhold payment.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Reginald 0]

Quote

...they decided to withhold my last weeks pay.

So I am looking for some advice from fellow pilots, skydivers, and/or professionals (lawyers).

Why are you asking advice here? You damn well know that is illegal. Did they provide you with a reason? Did you owe the DZ money? If there is no justifiable reason that you agree with then contact your state agency in charge of employment matters. In Texas it is the Texas Workforce Commission (I have no clue what it is in whatever state you are in) and file a grievance. Most state employment agencies handle this stuff all the time and will act as your advocate (for free) in settling the matter.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[tombuch 0]

I'm confused about what you are asking.

If you worked those two weeks, you should be paid.

If, on the other hand, you gave two weeks notice and EXPECTED to keep working through that period and didn't, then absent a formal agreement, the DZ can choose to not use your services and not pay you for the period. It's always nice when an employee gives two weeks notice, but it is often not required, and notice alone does not mandate payment for the time.

I suspect most of us in the skydiving world are employed on an "at will" basis. That means we can quit or be fired without notice or cause, and without additional compensation.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[PhillyKev 0]

I used to work for a guy who did home remodelling. After I quit, he refused to give me my last pay check. Instead he gave me a cordless drill. But, he didn't know he gave it to me if you follow. Not that I'm suggesting anything.

[ianmdrennan 2]

You suggesting he run off with the plane

Performance Designs Factory Team

[mathias 0]

If you stated all the facts, what they did to you is illegal.
Aviation is very, very, very small though and be careful when You pick your battles.
ie is the weeks pay worth the risk of being perceived as PITA or getting a bad report from this boss?

We had a few ppl that didn't get paid in the aftermath of 9/11 (I work for a regional airline)
one guy who was still on probation lost his job for calling and yelling at our chief-pilot.

I don't think what they did t you is legal or fair, but it doesn't mean that you should sink to their level and doing things out of revenge or other...

my 10cents...
M

Ingen minns en fegis!

[darkwing 4]

Your note is somewhat unclear to me, but giving two weeks notice can result in dismissal at the convenience of the employer, for example if they find a replacement quickly, or for other reasons. The real question is did you actually do work that last week? Two weeks notice is not a guarantee of two weeks of work. It is relatively common in some industries for a person to be dismissed immediately upon giving notice. It is actually a protective mechanism for the company.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

It is relatively common in some industries for a person to be dismissed immediately upon giving notice. It is actually a protective mechanism for the company.

Very true, but if they don't pay you for those 2 weeks, you have a right to file for unemployment (assuming you're eligible).

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

Very true, but if they don't pay you for those 2 weeks, you have a right to file for unemployment (assuming you're eligible).

In Colorado there's an initial waiting period (1 week), you don't collect benefits while they were processing your claim, and the maximum benefit is $407/week pre-tax.

Working is a far better option.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

If, on the other hand, you gave two weeks notice and EXPECTED to keep working through that period and didn't, then absent a formal agreement, the DZ can choose to not use your services and not pay you for the period. It's always nice when an employee gives two weeks notice, but it is often not required, and notice alone does not mandate payment for the time.

It's a nasty scenario. If the employee wants to be professional, they give notice. But nothing says the company has to be professional too. End result - unless you know the company will play nice, weigh ethics versus the money you may lose.

[packerboy 3]

In Canada, if you give two weeks notice and they chose to not have you around for those two weeks (assuming you have a work schedule in place) for security reasons, than even though you don't work, you still must get paid.

For irregular or part-time workers, it's a whole different ball game. I'm sure this is how you would be classified at your DZ.

You have a computer... look up your state legislation on the matter.

--------------------------------------------------
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[lummy 4]

How did the pay periods work? IS it possible that your last week of work would be in a new pay period? In Ca, they don't have to pay your last wages until the regular payday if you quit. If they fire you on the other hand, they have to pay you within 24 hours or termination

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[larsrulz 0]

Our DZ is having pilot issues currently. I don't know your situation, but as you explain it they have to pay you for time worked. They don't have to give you work through your "two weeks" if they don't want to. I assume there is no contract that lays out the rules, so there is no rules at to "two weeks notice." One thing though, if they gave you in flight time in their aircraft whether to get a certain number of hours in type or the likes, then they can invoice you for those training hours if and when you choose to leave, which may mean that needn't pay you until you pay off that flight training..

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[diverdriver 5]

Quote

Our DZ is having pilot issues currently. I don't know your situation, but as you explain it they have to pay you for time worked. They don't have to give you work through your "two weeks" if they don't want to. I assume there is no contract that lays out the rules, so there is no rules at to "two weeks notice." One thing though, if they gave you in flight time in their aircraft whether to get a certain number of hours in type or the likes, then they can invoice you for those training hours if and when you choose to leave, which may mean that needn't pay you until you pay off that flight training..

Absolutely not! If they don't state up front that you will be charged for training in THEIR plane to work FOR THEM they can't charge you in the end.

And pay for training is BS in my opinion. I'm a professional. You want to hire me then you incur the cost to train me to standards. I don't have to subsidize your cost of operation. It's YOUR cost of operation to run a business.

I encourage all jump pilots to NEVER pay for training.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[calphoto 0]

No good deed goes unpunished.
I am curious which dropzone this was - as a warning to future jump pilots to have no dealings with the place. Can't throw out the monkeys if you don't have an elevator operator...
I left a place after working for them for a year and a half, and the owner refused to pay accrued vacation time. This after averaging 60 hours a week, six to seven days a week for the period, and giving them ample notice of my departure. "Use it or lose it buddy" were the owner's words, even though they had refused numerous times to bring in another pilot for the big plane so that I could take some time off.
And written guarantees don't mean diddly. A person is only as good as their word.
Short of hiring a lawyer, you are probably screwed. But remember that you DID take something from them when you left - exciting flight time, the friendship (I hope) of the people you threw out, and valuable experience in flying, management, and dealing with owners.
Move on, and brush the dust of their runway from your feet as you leave.

Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

[pissedoffpilot 0]

First of all I want to thank all of you for your words of wisdom. I thought about it all and all though I am quite mad about this, I am currently very happy in my new role (in which I will be getting paid, even during my training).

Part of me wants to rip this DZ apart but I have made too many friends and aquaintences and will not lower myself to bashing them. They know who they are and they know that what they did is not right.

I did give two weeks notice and worked there for two weeks. I could have just left like I know other pilots have done in the past but I am not like that. I flew loads and made sure the planes were healthy. But to them that means nothing.

So to all of you who are taking jobs and trying to make a living in this world, please be cautious and do your best to get things in writing.

Take care, blue skies.

Not so pissed off pilot (but still mad and disappointed)

[airtwardo 6]

I think the title of your post is a little off...

From your actions, YOU are a professional !

Don't waste the time and energy even thinking
about how someone less pro than you, jerked you around...
"because they could".

Continue to do what you know to be the right thing, and
trust me...What goes around ~ comes around!

Eventually they'll pay for it, some way some how.



I was in a corporate position once in charge of a department
that followed up on contracts. (manufacturing)
The 3rd set of 'new' managers liked to rule by intimidation,
always on everyone's ass about something.
They didn't like my hair..my shoes...my 'free spirited' but
effective method of dealing with some customers...
I was called in to sign a 'bad-boy' page for my file...
I just walked in HR, with pen in hand signed the 'notice' without even reading it...

"You have the right to fight that, or submit a response."
The HR director told me, my boss behind him...

No...If I did that, you guys might get the impression
it actually MEANS something to me. I was looking for a job when I found this one.

I started at a rival company a few months later, better money and position..couple years later my 'old boss' is in my office
interviewing for a job...
I almost wanted to hire him...just so I could fire him!
I explained to him that his qualifications weren't in line
with what we were looking for to fill the open position.
I walked him to the door and as he asked just 'what'
it was we were looking for, I winked and said...
"Someone with LONGER HAIR!"

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~