AFF Instructors and D-licenses?

[IMGR2 0]

I apologize if this has been discussed before.
I just realized the other day that you do not need a D license to be an AFF instructor now.

What is other peoples take on this?

I am curious why they raise the requirements for a D license and lower them to be an instructor.

I want to be an instructor so bad, just need to save up the money one of these days. aurgh!!!!

[Reginald 0]

What are the "lowered" requirments to be an instructor?

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[mattjw916 2]

I think he means you only have to have a "C" to be eligible for USPA instructor rating... i.e. 200 jumps, 60 min freefall, 2m accuracy... etc, etc...

Tandem Instructor rating still requires a D and 3 years experience AFAIK...

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[IMGR2 0]

Maybe someone with an IRM can refresh my memory but I believe there is no jump requirements for AFFI, just freefall time which usually adds up to somewhere around 200 jumps.

[AggieDave 6]

If my memory serves me right, you have to have a D license to be an instructor, not for a coach rating (but a coach rating isn't a full instructor rating either).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mattjw916 2]

2004 SIM says:

Persons holding a USPA C license are able to exercise
all privileges of a B-license holder, are eligible for the
USPA Instructor rating (except USPA Tandem
Instructor), participate in certain demonstration
jumps, may ride as passenger on USPA Tandem
Instructor training and rating renewal jumps, and must
have—
a. met all current requirements for or hold a USPA
B license
b. completed 200 jumps, including accumulating at
least 60 minutes of controlled freefall time
c. landed within two meters of target center on
25 jumps
d. aerial performance requirements, either:
(1) during freefall, perform in sequence within
18 seconds—a backloop, front loop, left
360-degree turn, right 360-degree turn, right
barrel roll and left barrel roll
(2) completed at least two points on an 8-way or
larger random skydive
e. Passed a written exam conducted by a current
USPA I/E, S&TA, or USPA Board member.
for those listed in the petition
3. Each application will be considered individually on its
own merit, totally without precedent.
4. Restricted license numbers will be followed by the
letter “R” (e.g., C-11376R)."

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[IMGR2 0]

Now that we have that clarified.

What are your opinions?

I just thought it was strange.

When I began skydiving I looked to D-licensed jumpers as well trained skydivers and even looked more up to the ones who achieved AFFI.
Now AFFI can be earned without having earned a D-license. Which by USPA's definition is a "Master" skydiver.
Does this mean that they do not expect an instructor to be a "master" skydiver?

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Persons holding a USPA C license are able to exercise
all privileges of a B-license holder, are eligible for the
USPA Instructor rating (except USPA Tandem
Instructor),

Damn, I forgot about that change with the '04 SIM. Thank you for correcting me.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mnischalke 0]

It's a C and 6 hours of freefall.

Good thing I am not interested in AFF-I, cause while I could have about 7.5 hours, I am only at 5 hours. It's hard to build your freefall time when you only log 2-8 seconds on each jump.

Screw it, it's all about the canopy anyway...

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[mnischalke 0]

Well, the C is now pretty much what the D was, except you don't need night jumps and there are 20 questions you haven't answered yet.

As far as having a C and being an AFF-I, does it really matter, since you have to have 6 hours of freefall time? Six hours translates to about 360-370 belly jumps. More if you're on your head a lot. That's well in excess of the minimum C requirement and the old D requirement. As I mentioned, I think it only really affects people who won't do night jumps, but want to be an instructor.

Being that the newbies in the sport are gonna need 500 jumps for a D, I think there's gonna be a new-found respect for C licenses.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[sunshine 2]

I was glad the USPA rasied the license requirements. I think they need to raise the instructor requirements too.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[Shark 0]

Quote

I think they need to raise the instructor requirements too.

Probably, but the reality is that most skydivers are not ready for the AFFIRC with 6 hours of freefall time or more. Most candidates have well over 500 jumps when they enter. There were 7 candidates in my class and 5 had over 1,000 jumps. 2 of those had over 2,500. Me and another guy had around 600 a piece. We both passed while 2 of the more seasoned guys did not.

Do we need to raise the requirments? Difficult to reason why. I've jumped with great fliers with less than 400 jumps and some people with thousands of who shouldn't be in the air. 6 hours of freefall may be adequate, but with a lot of emphasis placed on canopy control these days, a 500 jump minimum and D license would be good. In fact, TI requirements should also be used for AFFI candidates.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Six hours of freefall for civilians and four hours for specop military who only teach at their own closed courses. The AFF rating has never been about jump numbers.

[Kramer 0]

Clarify this for me...does all this mean you are eligible to get your AFF-I Rating at 200 jumps with a C-License? (edit: I realize it's not necessarily adviced...or even possible with the difficulty of the course...I'm just wondering if you are eligible).

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[masher 1]

You're eligible to apply, assuming you fulfill the requirements.

Whether you'd pass or not is another question.

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[TrickyDicky 0]

In the UK, you need a D licence before you can be an AFFI, but a D is 1000 jumps here.

Tandem is 800 Jumps and 8Hrs freefall.

UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs.

[Douva 0]

You and I have already touched on this subject at the DZ, but here is my opinion:

When comparing jump numbers and free fall time, I think free fall time is a much better gauge of whether or not a person is ready to start instructor training. You and I both know people whose jump numbers are not indicative of their current skill level because of an excessive number of hop-and-pops or CReW jumps. At the same time, one of the jumpers who took the AFF instructor course with me only had about 400 jumps, but nearly all of those 400 jumps were serious RW jumps, and he is now generally considered to be the best of our new instructors to come out of that class.

Quote

When I began skydiving I looked to D-licensed jumpers as well trained skydivers and even looked more up to the ones who achieved AFFI.
Now AFFI can be earned without having earned a D-license. Which by USPA's definition is a "Master" skydiver.
Does this mean that they do not expect an instructor to be a "master" skydiver?

I think you're attributing too much to the titles that accompany each license. Aside from jump numbers, the only difference between a "C" license holder and a "D" license holder is the completion of two night jumps. Do two night jumps really make you a "Master" skydiver? I had two night jumps by the time I had about sixty jumps. I've known a couple of people who couldn't meet the night jump requirements because of night blindness. Since I doubt they would be doing a lot of night AFF jumps, should they really be denied their AFF instructor ratings because of the lack of a "D" license?

You mentioned how you looked up to "D" license holders when you started skydiving. Like many of us, when you started skydiving, a skydiver only needed 200 jumps to earn their "D" license. I seriously doubt many people are skilled enough to be AFF instructors with less than 200 jumps; however, I have seen that it is definitely possible with 400 jumps.

I was going to suggest that USPA do away with the titles attributed to each license, but as I look through my SIM and at my current USPA card, I realize they already have. Nowhere that I can find in either the SIM or on my USPA card are the old "Beginner," "Intermediate," "Advanced," and "Master" titles used. I can only assume that this is a response to queries such as your own. I think that's probably a wise decision. After all, title doesn't dictate behavior.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Douva 0]

Quote

Clarify this for me...does all this mean you are eligible to get your AFF-I Rating at 200 jumps with a C-License? (edit: I realize it's not necessarily adviced...or even possible with the difficulty of the course...I'm just wondering if you are eligible).

You'd probably only be eligible if those were all high altitude jumps because, as has been repeatedly stated, you also need 6 hours of free fall time, and that would average out to about 108 seconds per jump.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[voodew1 0]

***I want to be an instructor so bad, just need to save up the money one of these days. aurgh!!!!

Hey rat-- How about I just let you touch me so you can know what it feels like!!!!!!!!! HA!!!

As for the requirements the only change was from a D lic to a C which means that nothing changed at all still the same!!!!

By the way just so you know I know deep in my heart I am funny and I know you know I am funny too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Now AFFI can be earned without having earned a D-license. Which by USPA's definition is a "Master" skydiver.

Where did you find that definition? My "D" license says nothing about being a master anything.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Douva 0]

Quote

Quote

Now AFFI can be earned without having earned a D-license. Which by USPA's definition is a "Master" skydiver.

Where did you find that definition? My "D" license says nothing about being a master anything.

Up until the license requirements were updated to fall in line with FAI standards (500 jumps for a "D," etc.) the SIM and the old licenses identified the "A" license as "Beginner," the "B" license as "Intermediate," the "C" license as "Advanced," and the "D" license as "Master." Apparently these designations were retired without much hoopla because I didn't notice the change until I looked for the designations in my SIM today.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Apparently these designations were retired without much hoopla because I didn't notice the change until I looked for the designations in my SIM today

If I remember correctly, the titles were retired a few years ago actually, since by no means did 200 jumps make someone a "master" at this parachuting thing.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Douva 0]

I've got an old license that expired in February of 2000 that still uses the term "Master License," so I'm betting they did away with the designations in 2000 when they revised the training programs.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[sducoach 0]

The requirements for SL/IAD instructors was lowered. You no longer have a "time in sport" requirement like we had with jumpmasters and instructors. You now can qualify to be a coach on one weekend and become and instructor the next if you meet the jump requirements.

Blues,

J.E.

James 4:8

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I've got an old license that expired in February of 2000 that still uses the term "Master License," so I'm betting they did away with the designations in 2000 when they revised the training programs.

That's a couple months before I started jumping, so to me...that's ancient history.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."