Priorities: Rig or Tunnel Camp

[pilotdave 0]

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I feel that they truly see that I will benefit a great deal from this camp.

You would benefit a great deal. Coached tunnel time is an awesome way to learn. Lots of fun too. If you decide to go to the tunnel, you won't be sorry you did... until you pay for your next rental. I'd agree that you should get a rig instead, unless you're in a really big hurry to make the speedstar team (a la "cutaway" the movie). ), and have fun! You will get better by jumping. You'd get better quicker with some tunnel time, but you won't be left with any money to jump, which is the whole point here in the first place.

Dave

[skymama 35]

Think of it this way. The tunnel has been around for only a few years. People managed to correct their freefall problems before the tunnel came around. If they can do it, you can too. I vote for the rig.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[MarkM 0]

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Thanks guys! Just understand, that a lack of confidence in my skills is keeping me on the ground quite often, as I refuse to do solos....no point....nothing relative except keeping my heading...nothing for fall rate, etc.

No point in solos? You can already do side sliding, full body turns, start and stop on a dime, fly belly with your hands behind your back, fly stable on your hands and knees(hunched up in a ball), swoop, track stable with your hands behind your back and legs crossed, back track, do on heading barrel rolls while tracking, sitfly, stand, and go head down, all of which you can practice solo and some of which you can't do in a tunnel?

[dgskydive 0]

THere will always be more tunnel camps. You can't jump without a rig. Spend the money on the rig now and if you come to Perris I'll coach ya for free in the tunnel.

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

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No point in solos? You can already do side sliding, full body turns, start and stop on a dime, fly belly with your hands behind your back, fly stable on your hands and knees(hunched up in a ball), swoop, track stable with your hands behind your back and legs crossed, back track, do on heading barrel rolls while tracking, sitfly, stand, and go head down, all of which you can practice solo and some of which you can't do in a tunnel?

The only thing you can't do in the tunnel is track. It is for the most part a bad idea to jump solo especially right off student status. Must new jumpers have no idea if they are doing things right on a solo. How many times have you heard a newbie claim that they can sit fly at 50 jumps? Then someone gets them in the air and they figure out the can't fall straight down. Or that newbie that thinks they can track and they actually don't go anywhere. I see that all the time.

This last weekend I jumped with a few coach jumps with a guy. When it came time to track away, he didn't move at all. Got right into his tracking position and just fell straight down. When we got on the ground he asked me how his track was, seems he had been working on it and he thought he was getting really good at it. When I told him he didn't move at all he was shocked. He said he remebered seeing me at pull time but assumed that I had followed him while he was tracking. This is the case with a majority of solo newbie jumpers. They jsut haven't had time to figure it out yet and most won't while doing solos.

I think it is a good idea for newbies to get video of as many jumps as they can in the beggining also. They can't argue about if they where on heading or if they where back sliding or spinning or what ever the case is. After seeing it a few times they get the hint and then they really start to learn.

Always jump with people right after student status. Of course two ways to start with. You waste more time unlearning bad habits later on. Jumping solo for a newbie is almost always a waste of time and money. They don't know enought o know if they are doing what they think they are. The references aren't there and the awarness that comes with jumping with others hasn't been developed.

Dom

[sum1mom 0]

good point. I just would prefer to have a point of reference. Didn't think of that!! Thanks!

[sum1mom 0]

DG thanks. I am sticking with 2 - 3 ways right now. Basically if its a 3-way, we get out of the plane nicely, but soon as we let go of the grips - off I go into never-never land and lurk on the 2 way that I was supposed to be the 3rd person. It is embarrassing to say the least...but, I think its expected in a way.

I really thought I could do it, but didn't realize how much you coaches were working with your own fall rates while we were training.

So, yeah...I'm going up with coaches and very experienced jumpers for now and getting as much video as possible to see what the heck I'm actually doing up there.

[dgskydive 0]

It is expected from a new jumper to go low, to float, to slide off into never never land. Just don't get discouraged. We have all been there.

It's good that you are jumping with others. If you had been doing those jumps solo. You never would have known that you were sliding away from people. Then when you have thought you were ready and went to jump with folks it would have been more discouraging later on when you have 100 jumps and wonder why you suck still.

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I really thought I could do it, but didn't realize how much you coaches were working with your own fall rates while we were training.

Working on fall rate and staying in front of people. This proves my point about awarness. It takes time and jumps to figure out that type of stuff. Good luck and be safe!

Dom

[sum1mom 0]

[koz2000 1]

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If the wind tunnel here has the same features/benefits, then why is everybody going to california???? They have nothing to gain by encouraging me to go and learn with them. I feel that they truly see that I will benefit a great deal from this camp.

BTW and I'm not trying to sound like a smarta$$

I don't think you're being a smart-ass at all. The tunnel is definitely better in CA and FL, just like the one soon to be in AZ. They have a TON of power and room. One reason people go there is because the tunnel is better (4-way, freeflying, etc...) BUT for just trying to get flying straight the TX one will work. Also you've got some of the best instruction at the tunnel in CA and FL. It's cool going to the tunnel (FL) and seeing Airspeed do a camp. The reason I suggested the TX one is because the money issue. If you've got plenty of cash, by all means go to the camp in CA, but if you've got limited funds, buy the rig, and if you've got a little spare change, get into the one in TX until you can afford to get to CA/FL/AZ. If I'm ever at Spaceland again, we'll make a jump, I good at dodging people

Blue ones,

Dave


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______________________________________________
- Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes -

[kelpdiver 2]

I went to the tunnel at jump 6 (AFF4) to work on symmetry and forward motion. I got the direction holding down pat, but once I was in the air without the walls as reference points I still was inconsistent with forward motion and backsliding. I didn't realize that the AFF-I was moving forward constantly to stay with me. That was with 30 minutes of time.

So I vote for the rig, provided you're not compromising in your selection. The only counter reason I can think of is it you're at a place like Perris where Square1 has a decent rent to own program.

[Nightingale 0]

Rig.

Renting gear is costing you money. If you do tunnel camp now, and then try to save for the rig, you're spending money you could be saving. Buy the rig first, then, put the money you save on each jump because you don't have to rent gear towards tunnel camp next time around.

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[321seeya 0]

Simple. You can fly in the tunnel without a rig, but I wouldnt suggest jumping without one. Get the rig, get tunnel time later.

BASE 3:16 - Even if you are about to land on a cop - DONT FORGET TO FLARE!
Free the soul -- DJ

[KrisFlyZ 0]

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I refuse to do solos....no point....nothing relative except keeping my heading...nothing for fall rate, etc.

Do Hop-n-pops and work on canopy control and accuracy. And yes buy the rig.

Kris

[sum1mom 0]

I will continue jumping every weekend, and fortunately, I have a couple of wonderful folks at my DZ that offer their rigs to me, which truly helps a great deal.

I know there is balance, and I know that I'm anxious to improve - somewhere in the middle I can cut a few corners and still jump once or twice a week while I budget for my rig. A really good thing that is coming from using other rigs is it gives me a good idea of what I like in containers and canopies.

Thanks guys!!!

[kallend 1,621]

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I feel that they truly see that I will benefit a great deal from this camp.

You would benefit a great deal. Coached tunnel time is an awesome way to learn. Lots of fun too. If you decide to go to the tunnel, you won't be sorry you did... until you pay for your next rental. I'd agree that you should get a rig instead, unless you're in a really big hurry to make the speedstar team (a la "cutaway" the movie).

Actual jumping will be more useful for speedstars.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NeedToJump 0]

I know you've heard a lot already but I figure that I'll give you my opinion as a complete tunnel rat - buy the rig.

The tunnel will definitely be beneficial for you, especially a tunnel camp. The instructors and teaching methods are outstanding. If you are looking to use the tunnel to improve your freefall skills then what is the point if you can't jump afterwards. I'd say get the rig and then save up for the tunnel later. The tunnel will wait for you.

Oh, and to all those people who say you can't track in the tunnel - true you can't do an all out track as far as far as using lift to gain speed goes BUT you definitely can LEARN HOW to track. You can learn the proper body position and get comfortable with it so when you get in the air you have no problem with it. There are three ways (that I know of) and two of which I have used working with people

1. Have your intructor hold on to you or stand in front of you to stop you from moving. I have had great success with using this method and it is definitely my favorite.

2. Have your feet outside the tunnel holding you in place. I do not really recommend this way unless you have a lot of tunnel time. It's definitely fun "back tracking" in the tunnel like this though

3. Go right up against the wall so you can't go anywhere.

I recommend number 1 but all three work. The only real thing I can think of that you can't practice is swooping down to a formation. You can't build up enough downward and forward speed and then learn to stop it. You can practice other skills that will help it though.

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[Merkur 1]

About the TX tunnel:
It is not as good as the Skyventure ones, but it can help you at least in building confidence in your "falling in place"-skills. (Yes, I am a big tunnel fan).
I think I remember your discussion on Saturday evening at Spaceland about going to the tunnel. The camp the guys from Spaceland offer will surely be great and so just listen to your money about the go or no go decision.
Finally trust all the people above, saying that jumping at the time of 50something jumps sometimes lets you wonder if you will ever be able to fly as good as all these other people. We all started at this level and had more experienced people helping us through this "dark valley". And then there is this one day when suddenly it works. You fall in place as if you have never ever done something else.

You can also try out Skydive Houston, as their jump rates are cheaper than the ones in Spaceland - people there are also nice (I like both places but most of the time jump at SDH just out of financial reason).

Whatever your decision will be - don't let a couple of "not so good" jumps get you down.

Blue skies

Markus

vSCR No.94
Don't dream your life - live your dream!

[pilotdave 0]

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Actual jumping will be more useful for speedstars.

Awww geez...the logical thinking. C'mon now, hollywood wouldn't lie to us, right? Didn't you see the movie? He learns head down in the fort bragg tunnel to be great at speedstar. Besides, what do YOU know about speedstar?? I think I'll trust the movie!

Dave

[Reginald 0]

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You haven't seen me skydive!! 15 minutes will not do it!!

You never saw him jump before he did it!

Hey, I resemble that remark! Okay, I NEEDED some tunnel time to get through AFF.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[dgskydive 0]

You are not alone in that fact. I see it all the time! SCARY!!!!!!!!

Dom

[kallend 1,621]

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Actual jumping will be more useful for speedstars.

Awww geez...the logical thinking. C'mon now, hollywood wouldn't lie to us, right? Didn't you see the movie? He learns head down in the fort bragg tunnel to be great at speedstar. Besides, what do YOU know about speedstar?? I think I'll trust the movie!

Dave

You're right of course. After all, I learned to fly by watching Chewie fly the Millennium Falcon in the movie.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[sum1mom 0]

Okay....I'm new...what is a speedstar? Humor me.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

Even this tunnelrat agrees, get the RIG

I don't get to skydive much this year but I DO have an AWFUL PRETTY perfectly fitting Infinity waiting for my jump budget to replenish itself. I bought it cuz one cannot jump on rental gear alone!

It's worth the wait.. I'm sure!

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[oldbastard 0]

Heck... sounds like the ole' what came first crap... the chicken or the egg.... simple fact is you can't fly without gear so what good is it going to do ya getten' that fancy coaching if you can't put it to good use... plus i hear that the perris tunnel ain't as nice as the one in florida... unless your taking a camp or something.... one of those airspeed ones... otherwise i think your money's better spent on the rig... not to put perris down ... was out there a couple times... nice folk and all.... but some of dem sound like they talkin out there you know whats.... tellen me i'd fly better without doin all dem shots!!!