Team Evolution

[TALONSKY 0]

I want to start by saying I am personally a fan of Icarus products. I have owned many Icarus canopies, Safire, Crossfire, Crossfire 2, and VX.
Just last week Team Evolution was out at my DZ, now for the most part they were a nice group of people. I find some of their techniques just a little questionable. A friend of mine just bought a Katana and loves it but some of the Icarus people decided to give him a lot of grief for not having an Icarus product. Now a little humor is one thing but to continually bag on someone for choosing another canopy manufacturer is totally another. (Hell one of the group or the people that just follows them around picked a fight with my friend for no known reason) I also heard several others at my DZ commenting about the lack of professionalism in the group (Team Evolution) as a whole.
Now a while back Validi (sorry if I misspelled your name) came out with a bunch of demo stuff from PD. I could not get over how nice he was and how professional he was. I tried a Velocity demo and we talked about the differences between my VX and the Velocity and at no time did he ever bash Icarus. Everyone I talked to really could not get over how professional he was and nice. Hell, he went out of his way just to talk to me about a stowless bag Javelin is working on that would have a huge amount of benefits for wingsuit flying (my discipline of choice).
Hell, from just my experience over this I next time I look for a new canopy I do not think I will be looking at Icarus
Kirk

(Title edited by request of the poster)

[diablopilot 2]

Ever think that they might have just been giving you their honest opinion?

I personaly know each of the Team Icarus Extreme mambers and they are honest, and open to other products and the people who use them.

The Katana is a nice canopy, but it has it's own issues just as every other canopy on the market.

Just because they dn't sugar coat how they fell doesn't mean you should give them grief over it.

Oh and the "stowless" bag has been in testing for like 3 years now. I've got about 20 jumps on one (non-Sunpath built) and I don't see it as having any big improvement.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[towerrat 0]

***(Hell one of the group or the people that just follows them around picked a fight with my friend for no known reason)

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Ever think that they might have just been giving you their honest opinion?

Doesn't sound like just giving an opinion to me.
They have a responsibility to the manufacturer to be professional to everyone. I'm sorry, but that doesn't sound very professional,and I wouldn't put up with it.

On the other hand, there is ALWAYS two sides to every story......

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!

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[FrogNog 1]

It's hard to explain in a post where the line between friendly professional competitiveness is "you shoulda bought brand X - they blow up into little pieces far less often " vs. being a dick.

In the original post, I am confused about "some of their techniques". Are you referring to sales techniques or canopy control techniques?

It's normal for some sellers to be "pushers." I don't like it, but that's how it is sometimes.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[jrcrackers 0]

Some time people just rub you the wrong way. The manifest girl at your drop zone got me so pissed I didn't want to ever jump at your drop zone, that was the first year for Kapowsin and Molalla. can't remeber how to spell the name. I got over it and ended up having a good time anyway. I came back again this year. although I still remeber that bad experience. Maybe your expectations for what you think they should act like are just plain differennt. The evelotion fella's rep the company I work for and I think they do a nice job. They also like to have fun, and maybe you misread them.

[TALONSKY 0]

Well what I was referring to more or less is the way they should carry themselves professionally. Meaning I find it OK to ruse someone for not buying their brand but I find it unprofessional to keep going on and on about it all day.
Kirk

[Jethers203 0]

I'm not saying you are wrong or not because I wasn't there, but are you sure that it was actually a Team Extreme team member that was giving your friend shit??? I know that they have a lot of people that hang around them so I was just wondering. Team Extreme consists of 4 people. There groupies are another thing.

I also wanted to say that I was at this last convention when a couple members of Team Extreme were there and I must say that they were awesome to everyone. They were constantly being bothered to get a picture, autograph, or just to talk, and they were really professional.

Just curious to see if it was an actual Team Extreme guy or not.

Clint

[JumpPunk1234 0]

When they were at Elsinore they were always friendly and easy going.

Jerry

[TALONSKY 0]

I can not say for sure if it was one of the team or one of the people that follows them around, but to an extent does it really matter. So I guess my original post may be a little off it should state one of the team or one of the teams followers. If they have people that follow them around that act like an ass I would think any professional person would disassociate with them totally. I know as an instructor if one of my friends is acting vulgar in front of my student I will not ackolege them and will pull them off to the side and tell them that infront of my students they need to act professional.
Kirk

[Ron 7]

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Just because they dn't sugar coat how they fell doesn't mean you should give them grief over it.

Tell that to the people on here

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Oh and the "stowless" bag has been in testing for like 3 years now. I've got about 20 jumps on one (non-Sunpath built) and I don't see it as having any big improvement.

How about not having to replace bands?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[diablopilot 2]

For clarification, who was there? Extreme or Evolution?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[TALONSKY 0]

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For clarification, who was there? Extreme or Evolution?

Team Icarus members - Brett, Dusty, Wyat & Jason,

[diablopilot 2]

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Team Icarus members - Brett, Dusty, Wyat & Jason,

That is Team Icarus Evolution, a completly different team than Team Icarus Extreme, the people I was talking about.

Extreme is J.C., Jim Slaton, Clint Clawson, and Luigi Cani.

I would sugest you clarify that, and maybe owe Extreme an apology.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[TALONSKY 0]

Your completely right, I am sorry for the mix up and have posted an appology

[arlo 0]

i doubt they (extreme) read the forums much. but if you post an apology in the Swooping forum with a big "TEAM EXTREME - I'M SORRY" on it, i bet that will catch the attention of jim. because they deserve at least that.

always a good idea to ensure accurate info before blasting.

arlo

[ManBird 0]

It was Icarus Evolution. Brett and Wyatt are good guys. They were when I knew them at Elsinore, and they still were out at the DZ this last weekend. It was more of the Icarus entourage that carried around a noticeably bad vibe and shadiness.

There was definitely an anti-other-manufacturer thing going on. TALONSKY's comparison is right on. When Vladi came out, he answered questions and had no issue giving matter-of-fact canopy comparisons and wasn't afraid to say, "I don't know" if he lacked some info. Then he'd provide resources for information, etc. He never said a word against other manufacturers. He also regulated what was demoed out to whom and was very positive throughout his stay. PD has picked a very, very good rep.

In contrast, anyone who wasn't flying or trying an Icarus product was either outcast or blatantly insulted. In one case, I was packing my new Katana near the Icarus demo station and I hear, "You need to get rid of that piece of shit. I have a Crossfire 2 you can demo instead." Then two other people (including an Evolution member) followed up with similar banter, like, "yeah, the Katana sucks ass," and, "if you buy a Crossfire 2, you should be able to find some other dumbass to buy that piece of crap," implying that I'm a dumbass for buying one. I replied, "Not only was that a bad pitch, but I've just lost respect for Icarus, as well." Not really true, they make good canopies, but that left a bad taste.

I got shit like this every time I landed or went to pack. If I planed out high or whatever, I had a "canopy coach" telling me that the Katana was the problem (nevermind the fact that I just got it and am still figuring it out). I observed similar occurences over the weekend. Some people seemed really coerced into demoing canopies, and qualifications were not checked well enough, IMO. A jumper with less than 200 jumps who's been having canopy control problems on square 150 loaded at 1.3+:1 was handed a 135 elliptical, no questions asked. This mentality and "sales tactic" was downright aggressive.

Again, Wyatt and Brett are good guys in my book. Very kind, fun, and professional. Good for Icarus. But a good sized group that I've dubbed "Cliquarus" were just offensive or standoffish. Bad for Icarus.

No, I don't want to identify anyone as that will open a can of worms. Not even PM. All it comes down to is that Icarus and/or Icarus' reps need to be more selective about who comes along for the ride. To a lot of people, that guy hooking up mains in the corner represents Icarus as much as the guys kicking ass at the pond.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[skyb 0]

WOW...I actually can't beleive what I have read and am only reading this because I received a call from a friend who came across this. I would first want to apologize for anyone acting unprofessional and for disrespecting a persons choice of equipment. As a member of Team Evolution and representative for Icarus canopies I am bummed that we have been branded as unprofessional and shady. I have worked for years helping build a professional image for the Team and company. I know for a fact that no member of Team Evolution would ever disrespect someone for the type of canopy they fly because we too have all jumped other manufactured parachutes. I am guessing but would make the assumption that the individuals that started this thread did not attend the seminars, swoop club, free canopy coaching with video & debrief or freefly load organizing. If they had I would only hope their opinion would be different. I can only guess that this was misconstrued/misinterpreted and no harm meant. Again, we enjoyed our time in Orgegon and hope everyone else enjoyed our comapny.

[flyana3 0]

Perfectly stated skyb. Oregon was beautiful. Thanks to everyone for their hospitality...especially Bruce! And thanks to Nicole and Wyat for that awesome sunset jump.

[flyana3 0]

This web site would be pretty cool if people wouldn't talk so much crap.

[Sonicfreefly 0]

Birdman

I to had negative comments thrown my way when packing my Katana at the freedom jam. Again I don't know the Icarus rep. (I know it wasn't Brett or Wyatt). When another jumper trying to arrange a demo asked me a question about the Katana, our conversation was interrupted with all "the negative thing about the Katana". The rep then asked me if I ever flown a Crossfire-2. I told him that the crossfire-2 at his feet also belongs to me. I was "ignored" after that remark. LOL.

[TALONSKY 0]

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WOW...I actually can't beleive what I have read and am only reading this because I received a call from a friend who came across this. I would first want to apologize for anyone acting unprofessional and for disrespecting a persons choice of equipment. As a member of Team Evolution and representative for Icarus canopies I am bummed that we have been branded as unprofessional and shady. I have worked for years helping build a professional image for the Team and company. I know for a fact that no member of Team Evolution would ever disrespect someone for the type of canopy they fly because we too have all jumped other manufactured parachutes. I am guessing but would make the assumption that the individuals that started this thread did not attend the seminars, swoop club, free canopy coaching with video & debrief or freefly load organizing. If they had I would only hope their opinion would be different. I can only guess that this was misconstrued/misinterpreted and no harm meant. Again, we enjoyed our time in Orgegon and hope everyone else enjoyed our comapny.

I did not get a chance to attend much that went on that weekend do to having to work as a tandem instructor but I did hear and was present at the BS that went on about my friends Katana. I am sorry but I take serious offense to anyone that comes to my home dropzone and make one of my friends feel unwelcome. My friend did not attend on Sunday do to the harrasment of your team and or entourage. Now sorry but had I known that then I would have taken it up with the person there, since I only found out later the harrasment he received this forum is one of the only places to let people know how someone in your team acts.
Kirk
I did get a chance to talk to Wyatt he is a great person as I said in the orignal post it is only some of them

[diablopilot 2]

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This web site would be pretty cool if people wouldn't talk so much crap.

That's something that those in the public eye need to take into account.

Public expresion of opinions is never gonna stop. At least on this site they are expressed for all to see rather than behind someone's back like at the DZ.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[tattoojeff 0]

steve and kirk this is total bullshit. first off steve i was packing next to dave the icarus rep all weekend and i heard him tell multiple people he would not let them demo canopys they wanted due to low jump numbers and past canopy expierience!!! i cant believe your trying to make them out to be passing out high performance canopys to toddlers! thats very untrue! you of all people are judging the reps about looking out for peoples saftey, its not like they let someone do there first wing suit jump with a highgly loaded stilletto. not to mention the canopy your refering to was a saphire 135. not a huge step from square 150. and whats this shit about people being outcasted if they werent demo,ing icarus canopys. these guys spent more time with the jumpers than anyother supposed load organizers this whole fucking season! they jumped with any and everyone who showed interest.i even asked one member to go and get lunch with me off dz and his response was no. he didnt feel right about leaving while people were jumping. i also jump a pd and i never heard shit about it from anyone.and your pathetic attempt to not name names is a fucking joke, theres only 4 people on the godamn team so why dont you have some balls and say the other 2 names. they are good friends of mine and yes i thinkits fucked up that your pissed cuz they teased you about your katana but you feel its ok to bash them in front of the whole world including ther sponsors!!! first off he was only joking, he spoke highly of you later sat night. he thoughgt you guys were on the same page about giving you shit. he didnt know you were getting pissed about it. you of all people should know he was just fucking around. how many times have you offended the masses steve when you thought it was in good fun.
they offered free canopy coaching all weekend a saftey seminar on sat. night while most l/o would be 1/2 drunk by then. not to mention putting together a canopy competitiuon that everyone can be part of not just swoopers on sun, that doesnt sound like a group of people being clicky or being outcasted.

and kirk you were throwing drouges all weekend you said it yourself you didnt attend any of the events they organized.
compared to past organizers who spent the whole time at the river and only put together 1 shitty hybrid with no effort to make it succesful, team evolution did an outstanding job. sorry if they hurt your feelings guy's but i think your totaly exxagerating and being malicious.
brett the majority of us had a blast and learned a ton. thanks so much. sorry some people at my dz feel the need to slander your team. were not all a bunch of exaggerating cry babys.

jeff

[Ron 7]

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and yes i thinkits fucked up that your pissed cuz they teased you about your katana but you feel its ok to bash them in front of the whole world including ther sponsors!!!

Maybe they should be more professional?

And I don't see him "Bashing" them infront of their sponsors.

Now I don't know any of the team members, never delt with them at all...But I HAVE heard they are unprofessional.

What does that say for them when they have a bad reputation with people they have never met?

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first off he was only joking

He was only joking about slamming another persons canopy since it was from another company?

That sounds like being unprofessional to me.

Your own post is doing nothing but increaesing the negative opinions of that team.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[skyb 0]

I would love to HEAR how you have heard Team Evolution as being unprofessional. I once heard that a UFO crashed in Rosswell but I don't go around claiming on website's that its true... I personally feel bashed from these threads and have worked to hard to build a positive reputation to be slandered. like someone wrote earlier, everyone has the right to express their opinion but I think it's completely unnecessary and inmature to express hearsay and the opinions of other people. "Life is a gift and earned by completing challenges, perseverance and the will to except the unexpected" thanks Jeff.. we had a great time...