How low would you go??

[Darius11 12]

If it is someone who i love dearly i would try to save them until i hit the ground.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Conundrum 1]

If it was a good friend or someone I cared deeply for, I'd do anything in my power to try and save them. Wether I could or not is very doubtful given my limited experience, but I'd go pretty low trying to keep them alive.

[Falko 0]

I second that:

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They either stacked the deck in their favor with a Cypres, or they elected to take the added risk of jumping without one. Instead of building a plan that puts us both at risk, I'd rather encourage my friends to get AAD's, then let their futures be based on today's decisions.

How low would I go? The answer is very hypothetical to me, because thankfully everyone (!) I know has a modern AAD (Cypres/Vigil).

Sitting comfortably in my chair it's easy to say this: If they didn't have an AAD but I had one, I would try to chase them until my Cypres fires. (And in this case I think I would actually rely on the device to pull for me at the minimum altitude required to save my life.)
But then again, maybe I would chicken out at 1500ft and pull silver myself... who know's?

Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse.
(Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970)

[wmw999 2,116]

If I were touching them around 2000', I'd try to finish pulling for them. If I weren't touching them, I'd probably quit and pull for myself. Probably -- after all, if I were 3" away, I'd probably consider it to be touching.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[FrogNog 1]

For me, 2k. Any lower than that and I'm just increasing the number of people who will get hurt or killed. My decision is based on the fact that I'm not good enough to save myself if I'm distracted at terminal velocity with less than 11 seconds to impact.

That means I'm also probably not good enough to catch and deploy my friend. But everyone is lucky sometimes, and I'd give it a try.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[mattjw916 2]

I really don't think I will ever jump without an AAD so options are really limited here... personally I think compounding a tragic death with another one, i.e. your own, is a waste. Sometimes stuff happens and nothing you can do will change it.

...if the needle's in the red, it's time to start pulling handles!!!

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[Praetorian 1]

I've thought this one over many times, and lets face it anything I say is hypothetical because I dont have the skill to catch anyone, I know I'd try only to have my cypress fire and watch them finish their fall ... thats if the cypres fired (something I never trust). If I noted the problem right out of the plane I'd do my best probably pulling before 2g (if I aint there by 2 grand from 13.5 I'm not gonna get there) .. if its my best friend, either I get him, I'm a cypres save or its a double fatality. MY CHOICE
NOTE the reason I'd pull at or above 2K is not decision altitude related even for a stranger I'd probably venture below 2k, but for a total stranger I'm not going to fight till the cypres fire, I'm betting ground rush will scare me into pulling early, the lowest I've pulled is 3500, and below 4000 I can start to feel the ground coming ...

Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad
judgment.

[metalslug 31]

If it was family or close friend, I'd chase them till the AAD fired.. or till 2000 if I had no AAD.

I think a lot of skydivers have a sense of their relative inexperience, but a lot of whuffos think that anyone that can skydive is capable of 'James Bond' stunts:
"You're a skydiver! He was right next to you when he started tumbling and you didn't even try to help?"

My chances of ever catching an incapacitated jumper are very slim, but it would be just as difficult for me to explain to the whuffo relatives and friends of the dead jumper (who may also be my own friends and relatives) that I didn't even try because I was too pessimistic to even consider the possibility of success.

[bigway 4]

Be careful.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[sabr190 0]

Wow, one of the most thought provoking posts I've seen in a while!

I have often though about this scenario, I would pull silver at 1000'. I don't think it would have to be a close personal friend or loved one either, just someone in trouble. I would hope someone would do the same for me if I were in trouble.

I'm no "super swooper", but I'm gonna see if I can get one of the other jumpers to be my "test dummy" this weekend. I'll post the results.

"The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one" - rehmwa

[smooth 0]

I haven't read all of the responses yet but me personally...I'd probably give up at around 1500'.

A dear friend of mine died trying to "save" another jumper in this fashion. He got a canopy over his head but not in time to save his life. She never pulled.

[Reginald 0]

i'll try and help to 2000 and then if the person made a choice to jump without an ADD they will die with that choice. No point in 2 of us going.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[cloudseeker2001 0]

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If I were touching them around 2000', I'd try to finish pulling for them. If I weren't touching them, I'd probably quit and pull for myself. Probably -- after all, if I were 3" away, I'd probably consider it to be touching.

Wendy W.

Yes, if they were right there, gotta try something. Only one person I can think of that I care enough about to take it down until the cypress fires.

Both instructors I trained with said they would follow me down until their cypress fired and I saw another instructor go down to less than 1500ft chasing a student once as well.

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[Ron 7]

Quote

I think a lot of skydivers have a sense of their relative inexperience, but a lot of whuffos think that anyone that can skydive is capable of 'James Bond' stunts:
"You're a skydiver! He was right next to you when he started tumbling and you didn't even try to help?"

My chances of ever catching an incapacitated jumper are very slim, but it would be just as difficult for me to explain to the whuffo relatives and friends of the dead jumper (who may also be my own friends and relatives) that I didn't even try because I was too pessimistic to even consider the possibility of success.

Simple, just tell them you did everything you could.

1. It would be true.
2. They would not know better.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[sstovall 0]

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Wow, one of the most thought provoking posts I've seen in a while!

I have often though about this scenario, I would pull silver at 1000'. I don't think it would have to be a close personal friend or loved one either, just someone in trouble. I would hope someone would do the same for me if I were in trouble.

I'm no "super swooper", but I'm gonna see if I can get one of the other jumpers to be my "test dummy" this weekend. I'll post the results.

I'll be there this Sunday Bill. I should be able to give you a realistic unstable freefall.

Shane

=
=
-some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain,
that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

[Reginald 0]

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I'll be there this Sunday Bill. I should be able to give you a realistic unstable freefall.

Shane

LOL!

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[D22369 0]

freefall times show that from exit at 3500' to impact is 25 seconds-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats not from Terminal...thats from starting at zero....Once you are at Terminal you go through 1,000 feet about every 6 seconds while stable.***
remember, The hypothetical question posed - we exited a 2 way from 3500' so we are starting from zero.

Please, try it this weekend. Have a buddy flip on his back out the door and go after him. Mark your start altitude and your finish altitude.
***
I will see if I can arrange for someone to play bullseye and let you know what happens.

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[Jethers203 0]

Early on in this thread I was thinking that I would take it as low as it takes for a friend or family member to live. Then I thought well, my cypres firing will be my limit, but in all actuality, I don't feel very good about my cypres firing while I am head down. That is almost as stupid as taking it all the way.

So, I will say this. I would take it low to around 1500' and then get flat and pull my reserve. I have confidence that I could catch someone who is unconscious, but I am not going to kill myself over it.

If someone is going to get knocked out on a skydive it will most likely happen between exit and breakoff. I don't know about others, but my breakoff is usually 4000 so that would give me more time than the 9 seconds in other posts.

I plan on trying to catch the dummy jumper some day just to see.

Clint D-24352

[hookitt 0]

I'm not sure how low I'd go.


If I thought I could actually catch the person in time, I'd go for it. It's all situation dependant.

If possible, I'd get the person, grab a handle, preferably the reserve hold on then dump my own reserve and pull the handle with me.

Whether that's what I'd really do? who knows. It's just a thought. I'd have to be in the situation to truly know. I won't go in for any one. But I'd give my best effort trying to save the person.

[BillyVance 34]

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If I were touching them around 2000', I'd try to finish pulling for them. If I weren't touching them, I'd probably quit and pull for myself. Probably -- after all, if I were 3" away, I'd probably consider it to be touching.

Wendy W.

That's pretty much about my limit, touch them by 2000 feet, grab the silver and yank it, by the time the unconscious skydiver's reserve is coming out, I'll probably be at 1500 feet. With a Cypres in my rig, it's a good bet I'm going to be yanking my silver handle too, just to try and save the cutter... I just hope I never face such a situation.

If you remember back in 1998 on the 300 way attempts at Skydive Chicago, a world-class skydiver and big way organizer, Sandy Wambach, was knocked unconscious upon break-off at around 6500 feet when she turned 180 and slammed into a guy's thigh. She was only about 5 feet tall and weighed not much more than 100 pounds. Had a tiny Racer and tiny Stiletto, and no room for a Cypres. Most everyone knew she didn't have one. It was a few seconds before those nearby realized that she was flailing and unconscious, and then a few started to give chase. Based on ground video, two of them had closed to within 10 feet of her before they finally had to give up and save themselves. They were world-class skydivers too.

99% of the time, it doesn't matter how good or experienced you are, it will still take a lot of luck and being in the right place and right position to make that move to save the skydiver in trouble.

That said, I would still fucking hate to be in the position to watch a fellow skydiver tumbling unconsciously and I'm out of altitude and not able to do a damn thing. It would really suck, and there's no sense in making it a double-fatality.

2000 feet is my hard deck to reach the skydiver.

Blue Skies
Billy

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Push 0]

If it was someone random that I don't know, 1300'-1500', go to silver, possibly 1000' if we are that close. There are a precious few people I would chase down until my freefall was stopped by circumstances out of my control, that is, my CYPRES or the ground. Yes, I realize that it's selfish, I don't care.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[Tonto 1]

I have no friends below 2000ft.

As for being cold - how about they come to at 1400ft and pull, and YOU take them out through collision? Mmm? I have over 1500 AFF dives and have chased and caught dozens of unstable students.

No friends below 2000ft.

Edited to add:
SkymonkeyOne - 4100 dives - 2000ft
Diablopilot - 2968 dives - 2000ft
Tombush - 4700 dives - 2000ft

Gotta make you think...

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Airman1270 0]

It might depend on which rig I'm using; my older rig has a round reserve, which I suppose might take an extra second or two to deploy. Most likely, I wouldn't take it down low enough for this to be a major factor.

Remember Greg Robertson's save at a boogie in Arizona (4-18-87)? He followed a group out between 12,000' - 13,000' just to watch, in part because he wanted to observe a novice he thought might be in a bit over her head at a large boogie with 50-ish jumps. Shortly after exit, she smacked into another guy & went unconscious. Even though he was watching for trouble, and had all that sky to work with, he didn't dump her until around 3000'. I'm not sure I could do any better.

By the way, I don't have an AAD. I appreciate all you guys who would at least make an effort, thanks.

Cheers,
Jon S.

[mr2mk1g 10]

You can't argue with that – you’re all right to say it.

I never said mine would be the intelligent choice, nor even the recommended choice... in fact I specifically said it would be “dumb shit”.

There can be no doubt that chasing below 2000ft can never be the right thing to do… it’s just that I can see a time when it might be the [I]right[/I] thing to do if you catch my drift.

I only mean that in some very specific circumstances where I'm there and I'm just struggling to pull for them - it’s the only choice that would allow me to sleep at night.... even if it is "dumb shit".

[Ron 7]

Yeah, you notice its the low timers that ay they will try to catch them low?

I think they saw Dropzone to many times

But I can think of 2 people I would chase till impact.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334