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AggieDale08

AFF Landings

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Well, I have been searching around and reading some older threads on PLF. From everything I read it seems as though you are going have a bad landing every time. Throughout AFF training is it possible to have good landings? All the talk of breaking this and breaking that is kind of pushing away from wanting to do AFF. I have one more working tandem to do, before I start AFF. I have already experienced a hard landing on my first jump and when I am in control of myself on the 3rd landing I don't want another. Let me know if I am overreacting or not. Thanks.

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I am probabely not the best person to respond, but.....

Although I am new, my landings have not been bad, except for my one downwinder and that WAS my fault.

The on piece of advice one of my instructors gave me that helped the most for landing - wait to flare til you think you are going to die, then wait 3 more seconds.

Works for me (as long as you arent flying down wind).

LOL

Good luck, and HAVE FUN!!!

Scott

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Hahah I like your instructors words. Have you stood up any of your landings? The bad one what happened when you landed, just bruises and scrapes?

Remster, sorry you posted when I did, thanks for replying. Yea I figured just the incidents were reported. I just don't want a bad landing.B|

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( notice my low jump numbers and take with appropriate filter)

I had a couple of good landings during AFF and everal after. SOmeone pointed out that I wsa PLF-ing on what could be stand up landings. I guess I was so used to doing PLFs that my body just did them automatically. I will say that a good PLF saved some injury on a landing that was on the runway ( a little skin off on one knee ).

PLF has changed some of my hard landings into rolls back up to my feet.

You will get the hang of it, it just takes more time than we want to put into it sometimes. Not to mention your legs and butt screaming " Oh god here comes the ground again"

_________________________________________________
Let me live in my house by the side of the road and be a friend to man- Sam Walter Foss

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Out of 8 AFF landings, I stood up 5, landed 1 on my ass, and PLF'd 2. But on almost all the ones I stood up, I was prepared to PLF. I'd rather PLF a landing I could have stood up than hitting hard trying to stand up a bad landing.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

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I'm newer around here too, so of course I'd say listen to your instructors and more experienced jumpers, but here is my limited experience with the ground!

I PLF's jumps 1-13 in my AFP program (18 jump program similar to AFF). Some of the jumps needed PLF'ing and I heard over the radio "wave your arms if you are okay". Like many people, I flared way too high in the beginning. I even had an 8-10 foot drop out of the sky when I flared really high! I PLF'd and was not injured.

Some jumps I was gently teased about and they said I could've stood them up, but I was comfortable rolling on the ground and saving my already bad knees from any impact.

On jump #14 something clicked. I was no longer quite as afraid of the ground, the winds were blowing to help slow me down, and I stood up the landing as gently as stepping off a stair. I stood up the next 4 or 5 jumps as well.

Now I PLF some and I stand up some. I am much more comfortable waiting longer to flare. I've had a couple of hard landings, but got away with only bruising due to my PLF'ing (and a little luck no doubt!).

So my newbie advice is learn how to fall PFL as one more way to avoid an injury. Good luck!

Well behaved women rarely make history - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

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I think it's fair to say that at some stage your gona land harder than you expected, whether it's on your 3rd or 103rd jump. It doesn't mean that you're going to break anything, in all likelyhood you wont. Learning to PLF certainly won't do you any harm.

I'm sure it is possible to have good landings through your AFF, mine were probably about 40% good. The "bad" ones though were more embarrassing than painful though.

Don't worry about it.



"Life is a bowl of deadly nightshade, stay way way out on the rim brother"

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LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF JUMPS I HAVE BEFORE TAKING MY ADVICE

first off, the majority of tandems appear to have...not necessarily hard...but definately NOT soft landings. and I've seen quite a few come in hard (I practically live at the D.Z)

my first solo landing, instead of doing a staged "flare, flare flare", which I needed at the time because I wasn't used to the feeling, I did a FLARE. stopped about 5 feet off the ground, straight on my butt. sure it hurt a little, but it made me learn and I have a great story to tell :)
on AFF's (IAFs at my dz) out of 7, I had 3 stand-up landings, one hard landing, and 4 slide on your butt landings. I could've stood up all the slide on your butt ones, but those huge student canopies, although really really hard to seroiusly hurt yourself seriously under, don't provide you w/ a whole lot of lift right at the end.

plus, think of it this way

TAndem canopies iare usually somewhere around 400 sq ft. the tandem master 200 lbs. you, 200 lbs. that's a 1 to 1 wing loading....the student canopy is probably around a 280....you do the math

Doubting, un-nerving fear, when you're already committed to land, which you'll probably experience on the first landing, is a skydiver's worst enemy. FEAR of the sport in the area of having respect for it and understanding limitations is what will..hopefully end up saving mne and your life one day.

have confidence in yourself, your coaches will tell you when to flare and you'll do just fine :)
Please, if I have mis-spoken in any way, experienced skydivers, correct me.


BE THE BUDDHA!

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When I get within about 20 feet or so of the ground, I start looking out straight ahead. Once you are used to your canopy you will flare according to where you are looking relative to your height. That should assist you in determining when your flare should flatten out your wing (canopy, it's a lot like a simple airplane wing). Done right, your feet should be just above the ground.

Also, don't forget, for a straight-in landing, your toggles should be all the way up prior to flare so you don't lose any of the lift you will need for the flare itself.
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I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

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Personally, I think if you are worried about "bad landings" while you are on final... you are going to have one... since you are not concentrating on the important things, i.e. landing into the wind and flaring at the proper height.

I have never PLF'd and "sat down" a lot of landings that I could have easily stood up when I was a student. Listen to the radio (yes it WILL work) and you will likely have a nice soft landing, whether on your feet or not.

Talk to your instructors, but some of the best advice ever given to me re: landings is very simple and it works... it is "don't reach for the ground" and "don't stop flying your canopy until you are on the ground and stopped".
NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

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Quote


"Any landing that you walk away from is a good landing"

:P

(so, is Dave going to be after you for name infringment? Or is he flattered?)

Have fun, be safe. Meet you later.
Larry



Hahah I don't know, he said he noticed my name last time I was at the DZ, but didn't say anything about somewhat copying it. I was already trying to think of a way to incorporate Aggie and my graduating year, hehe.

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A couple of tools...

1. While on Final, learn what your canopies glide slope angle is and maintain your eyeballs at that angle throughout the entire landing. A lot of students have a tendency to look out at about 45 degrees or at the "X" and shoot for that. As they get closer, they begin changing their eyeball angle downward as they fly over it and once over it, say to themselves, "I'm there" and usually flare too high. Ask your Instructors how to avoid "Target fixation."

2. Another thing to talk with your instructors about is your canopy. Some canopies are designed to have one long continous stroke to the groin during the flare process, others do better with a three stage flare for landing (I'm confident your instructors will cover which one to use).

3. Finally, depending on the wind conditions when landing, you may wish to speak with your instructors about matching the speed by which you flare your toggles down equitably with that of the speed of the ground coming up to you.

For example, if the ground is coming up at a slow rate, flare your toggles downwrds at THAT rate of speed with the goal of being at full flare when your feet touch. The ground may be coming up slowly in which case, you pull your toggles down slowly, then SUDDENLY the ground appears to be coming up to you faster, match that speed of ground coming up with that of toggles flaring down (make sense?).

PLFs. Find a former Airborne guy at your DZ and ask him to teach you PLFs. I think you'll find that EPs are taught much more often and with more intensity than PLFs. However, I feel confident in saying that you will use PLFs a lot more during your skydiving career than you will EPs.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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Dale,

Since I'll most likely be your instructor on your next jump, I'll go ahead and jump in here.

Hard landings happen sometimes, but they are preventable. A proper approach starting with a proper landing pattern is the first step. That way you're less likely to make a bad judgement on a turn or such on final.

A proper flare helps as well.

If you're truely concerned about it, we can chat about it on Friday afternoon or Saturday.

I am willing to bet that you will do a great job and although you probably won't stand every landing up, I bet you take the instruction on proper canopy control well and do well with it.

Basically, although it is something to be concerned with, I wouldn't let it wig you out.:)
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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DUDE! I'm a living, breathing AFF survivor (with no injuries) and I jump at Aggieland, too.

My wingloading on my first AFF was like .4 or .5 to 1... and trust me... I had some interesting (interesting meaning I kinda well, yeah I DID NOT flare) and I'm still here... :)
Glad you're coming back out to jump. I'll see you on Saturday. Oh and we are having a club meeting tonight (wednesday) if you are interesting in going. PM me if you want the details.

Later dude and Good Luck!!! :)

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Haha, if you want a good laugh and story about a landing, ask people out at the dz about the day i flopped like a fish...that aside i had some of my best landings in AFF. The instructors out there will teach you well :) See you next weekend!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A life without a cause
is a life without an effect

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all of my aff landings were good stand ups and the two perfect ones were when I landed off ( yeah I know what everyone is saying) I have to find that guy
who was BBQ'ing the day I dropped in. Anyway my landings got terrible after off student status. After
20 jumps of wiping grass stains off of my forehead
I went back to student basics, took the Scott Miller
course and now landing much better. When my landings were bad,... in some respect it was funny
seeing that big ball of dust, ass over tee kettle. It
then occured to me I was on borrowed time for an injury, thanks to Dunk SDLI. Landings are a piece of
cake if you LISTEN, and then listen again. Just by your post, I am pretty sure you will be fine.

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As for me, my jumps were in the twenties before I had a nice, long stretch of great landings. (However, I recently started wearing a weight belt that changed my wing loading which changed everything. Now I'm learning to land again :$.)

I've learned it's small, constant adjustments at final approach and during the final flare. At first I flared too late and gave up. Then, I started flaring too high, and I had some times where I pretty much stalled out several feet off the ground. That is very scary. Luckily I never hurt myself other than bruises and sore muscles. It seems to me if you can PLF, you're doing fine. It's better than flaring high. Soon enough, you'll get the feel for it.
"If the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to girl's sports such as hot oil wrestling and foxy boxing." - Homer Simpson

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