"You can do everything right and still die in this sport".

[ManBird 0]

You haven't seen me pack a BASE canopy. Trust me. You can get away with some slop.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[freeflybella 0]

I reckon if you act is if every thing is under your control - and accept that you can control nothing - you will have done everything you can.

Decent way to live all of life, too.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[argon 0]

You can do everything right in LIFE-you ARE going to die. 1 in 5 people will experience cancer. Its all about risk accessment. Most accidents are the end of a chain of events and most are preventable. Lately more people seem to be dying under perfectly good canopies-even so with an average of 30 or so deaths a year is amazing compared to the number of jumps made. Skydiving is not the safest pastime. But then again think of all the people you pass with a closing speed of well over 100 mph within 2 feet of you in your car getting to the dz. If YOU can accept the risk in your mind-jump. Life is transient. The sport makes aware of your own mortality in an extreme way. And then again what is worst - dying a slow death ,suffering,with the moment in your mind for years,months-days. Blue Skies-Black Death. It is the same for ALL of us sooner or later. Might as well jump and smile your ass off.

***********
Freedom isn't free. Don't forget: Mother Earth is waiting for you--there is a debt you have to pay...... POPS #9329 Commercial Pilot,Instrument MEL

[speedy 0]

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I was told that only three things cause malfunctions:
1. Bad Packing.
2. Bad Maintenance
3. Bad body position.

I really can't think of a mal that does not fit into those 3 areas. All or some in each.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I had two mals that required cutaways that had nothing to do with the three above.
Now I don't mess with my risers during the snivel phase, even if the canopy looks like it's going into line twists.

Uh, if it spun up do to you messing with it while it snivels...It would be body position.

By that definition we could change a few incident reports.

Low Turn:
Due to bad body position the canopy went into a turn too close to the ground for recovery.

No pull:
Due to bad body position the left hand was no where near the reserve handle and the jumper was unable to pull it.

Canopy collision:
Due to bad body position, the jumpers hands were closer to his booties than to his toggles, he was unable to avoid the other jumper.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[TrickyDicky 0]

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By that definition we could change a few incident reports.

Low Turn:
Due to bad body position the canopy went into a turn too close to the ground for recovery.

No pull:
Due to bad body position the left hand was no where near the reserve handle and the jumper was unable to pull it.

Canopy collision:
Due to bad body position, the jumpers hands were closer to his booties than to his toggles, he was unable to avoid the other jumper.

I dont really think these come under malfunctions, more incidents.

And about getting away with sloppy pack jobs: Why are the sloppiest always the more confortable too?

UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs.

[speedy 0]

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I dont really think these come under malfunctions, more incidents.

I don't think you understood my point. I was just trying to say that I do not consider "hands on the rear risers try to help the opening" as bad body position.

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Why are the sloppiest always the more confortable too?

Urban legend. One of the few that is not listed in snopes.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[goose491 0]

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Why are the sloppiest always the more confortable too?

Urban legend. One of the few that is not listed in snopes.

Really? You don't see any truth in that? I wonder if there's a way to test and see.

I'm thinking (physically), the canopy that's trash-packed would have more friction with itself in the snivel phase and take more time to sort itself out than the one that's perfectly counted, flaked and folded.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[happythoughts 0]

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I'm thinking (physically), the canopy that's trash-packed would have more friction with itself in the snivel phase and take more time to sort itself out than the one that's perfectly counted, flaked and folded.

If one side opens first and throws you into some outstanding line twists. Or it opens really fast because you didn't roll the nose or do anything with the slider, then it slams you hard enough to lose a filling.

[hottamaly 1]

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- Malfunctions (those not caused by rigging errors)

I was told that only three things cause malfunctions:
1. Bad Packing.
2. Bad Maintenance
3. Bad body position.

I really can't think of a mal that does not fit into those 3 areas. All or some in each.

My function was a pilot chute rocking on opening and went over the leading edge and back through the lines to tie it off. Does this count?

Skydiving gave me a reason to live
I'm not afraid of what I'll miss when I die...I'm afraid of what I'll miss as I live

[Jumpmunki 0]

i think that comes down to a bad pack ...

or just shit happening!

[hookitt 0]

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My function was a pilot chute rocking on opening and went over the leading edge and back through the lines to tie it off. Does this count?

Spring loaded?

[champu 1]

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My function was a pilot chute rocking on opening and went over the leading edge and back through the lines to tie it off. Does this count?

Spring loaded?

you could probably recreate this by backsliding your ass off and then dumping.

[tbrown 26]

Two things truly out of our control are gravity and time. Planet earth has more mass than us, so earth will win every time. We're going DOWN, the only question is whether or not we can control it.

The other is time and in our sport there is very damn little of it. Even on a "ha-ha that sure was fun" perfectly safe skydive, we're coming within 15 - 20 seconds of impact with the planetary mass (see above). This is one of the discussions I get into with my scuba diving friends. Like us, they play in a weightless environment and depend on their gear to go on living. They can also get into their own kinds of trouble, but I think they have more time to think it through. With us, we have to act pretty fast and hope it's the right thing. No matter how good we think we are.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[kelpdiver 2]

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The other is time and in our sport there is very damn little of it. Even on a "ha-ha that sure was fun" perfectly safe skydive, we're coming within 15 - 20 seconds of impact with the planetary mass (see above). This is one of the discussions I get into with my scuba diving friends. Like us, they play in a weightless environment and depend on their gear to go on living. They can also get into their own kinds of trouble, but I think they have more time to think it through. With us, we have to act pretty fast and hope it's the right thing. No matter how good we think we are.

In virtually any underwater crisis, one can close their eyes, take a breathe or two to relax, then address the problem. Panic is usually the biggest threat by far as most times the divers have several minutes to get to the surface. They might be bent, but so long as they can get to the topside, odds are in their favor.

Jumping, panic is fighting with the ground for the crown of biggest threat. As you put it, at best there is 20 seconds to deal with a problem.

[mccurley 0]

As demonstrated in some of the previous posts about malfunction causes, there are two sides to every argument/discussion.
This one started with the statement "You can do every thing right and still die in this sport".
For my two cents worth, and I've had a few friends die over the years, I honestly wouldn't say any off them did every thing right and I am not aware of any fatality where they did every thing right.

To offer the flip side of the coin, I have been in the situation of doing the wrong thing and surviving and have seen this done with varying degrees of injury or total lack of injury on many many occasions.

So to counter the original statement I would like to offer that "You can do a shit load wrong in this sport and still live to jump another day"

Watch my video Fat Women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI

[skybytch 259]

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I am not aware of any fatality where they did every thing right.

I am. I watched him exit the plane.

Believe it or don't. I know.

You can do everything right and still die.

[mccurley 0]

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I am. I watched him exit the plane.

Believe it or don't. I know.

I'm not saying it isn't possible, Mearly that I'm not aware of one. I also don't claim to be an expert on the matter, Just an observer.

Watch my video Fat Women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI

[murps2000 86]

We had some excellently maintained tandem rigs, packed by Taz (Navy rigger, has thousands of reserve pack jobs) that would develop tension knots every once in a while. Sometimes shit just happens, even when everything is in top shape. ***

He forgot to put baby powder on the lines!!

[jumperconway 0]

I didn't read past the first line but let me give you this scenario. actually not comparing the 2 instances but listen. You get in your car to go to work. You buckle your seat belt and do the speed limit,stay in your lane, watch ALL you can see and you get slammed into and killed! BAM, you did all you could do and just died! Good night!.


You can check all your equipment before you throw yourself from an airplane and guess what? You can still get clocked from a freeflyer that left after yiu but didn't give you space!

[mjosparky 3]

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My function was a pilot chute rocking on opening and went over the leading edge and back through the lines to tie it off. Does this count?

Your pilot chute didn't rock back and forth, you main canopy did. As you canopy starts to inflate, the P/C goes limp. It sounds like you opened in a stall, or with the relative wind to your back on a hop & pop.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 3]

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>I was told that only three things cause malfunctions:
>1. Bad Packing.
>2. Bad Maintenance
>3. Bad body position.

We had some excellently maintained tandem rigs, packed by Taz (Navy rigger, has thousands of reserve pack jobs) that would develop tension knots every once in a while. Sometimes shit just happens, even when everything is in top shape.

Tension knots are caused by either poor packing or bad body position.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[billvon 2,394]

>Tension knots are caused by either poor packing or bad body position.

Could be, but if one of the best riggers I've met is the guy you consider a poor packer, 99.9% of the people in this sport are going to be abysmal.

[mjosparky 3]

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>Tension knots are caused by either poor packing or bad body position.

Could be, but if one of the best riggers I've met is the guy you consider a poor packer, 99.9% of the people in this sport are going to be abysmal.

You said this rigger was a poor packer, I didn't. If it was a good pack job, that still leaves poor body position, as in one shoulder low. Tension knots are caused by some lines still being slack when the rest of the lines become loaded. One shoulder low as in looking back at the deployment will create this situation.
And I agree with you, a very high percentage of the packing in the sport is abysmal, which says a lot for the reliability of the ram air parachute.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[justdumi 0]

You can check all your equipment before you throw yourself from an airplane and guess what? You can still get clocked from a freeflyer that left after yiu but didn't give you space!

[dubbayab 0]

>>>>>Thats not doing everything right. Correct me if i am wrong but dont freefliers tend to exit first before belly fliers?


Typically here in the USA. We try to load the turbin aircraft in exit order.......Exit order typicaly......Largest RW to smallest RW, Then Largest Freefly group to smallest Freefly. Then students planning deployments above 4000 ft. Then AFF jumps, then Tandems.
However DZ's are able to create there own policy on exit order, probably thats the case in Africa at your DZ. I know here where C182's are used, they prefer to load the tandem to exit first, for ease of sitting by the door.
8 seconds is a good rule, but visualy comfirming the seperation before climbing out is better.