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teason

"I jumped in the 70s so I'll be OK"

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I'm wondering if anyone has had to deal with a similar situation.

This guy phones me last year wanting to do a jump. He tells me that he used to jump in the 70s and hasn't jumped in 2 years. I said no problem, just bring out your logbook and we'll take it from there.

He then tells me his logbook is in Toronto with his rig. He then tells me his rig is an SST with capewells, adding "some guys like those three rings, but I prefer capewells"

Some guys? You mean like the entire Skydiving industry?!?

He then proceeds to brag that he has hundreds of jumps and he's really good. He also starts talking about all the big name old time jumpers he knows.

Alarm bells ring so I end the conversation with "make sure you bring out your log" and that was that.

This week he came out to a satalite school we were running in T-bay. He started on about how he was a jumper and wanted to jump. I asked him for his log and he said again that it was in TO with his SST 'cause he hadn't jumped in 4 years.
I said I needed his log and he told me he'd be OK 'cause unlike most skydivers, he'd lost his fear from confidence not from repetition.
I told him I needed to see his log and he told me he had a lifetime membership and a license.
I told him I needed to see his log to establish his currency and experience and he told me he would be fine cause even though he hadn't jumped in 2 years he was confident.
I told him I needed to see his log because a lack of currency and unfamiliarity can kill and he told me he'd never heard of currency and tried to impress me by telling me he was confident even though he hadn't jumped in 10 years. Now the alarms are screaming.
The rest of the conversation was 10 min. of who he knew and that if you're confident, currency means nothing.

I sent him away thinking that I was the idiot.

Any similar stories?
I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

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obviously full of shit, has it been 2 years or 4 or 10 since his last jump?? and why mention that he "used to jump in the '70s" if he has done jumps in the '90s or even more recently (like i said, 10 years, 4 years or 2 since his last jump)?????
you made the right call, i dont need hundreds of jumps to sniff out the bullshit in his story... [:/]

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

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A lot of jumpers who "used to jump in the 70's" can't remember the 70's.

Except you and me, right.



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Which is why I'm glad I have logs from back then...

Some parts of the 70's are a blurr!


I was in Alaska a couple years ago and stopped by the DZ,
no logs...no gear..
but I did have my USPA card & PRO License.

Manifest was understandably hesitant..
until Lew Sanborn..(D1) walked in from a load.

"Hey Twardo...whatchya doin up here?"

Oh...you know Lew, asked manifest...
Ahhh...grab any rig there off the wall!:)
But...that was the exception not the rule,
always have documentation in hand...
Even IF you jumped in the 70's!;)












~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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Ya I used to jump in the 70s, and 80s, and 90s, I still wouldn't expect to be able to show up and jump as a perfect stranger some place where no one knows me.
Full of shit and you did the right thing. I'd venter a guess that if he showed up again with a log book that he didn't have as many jumps as he said either.
I was in Toronto in the seventies and knew a lot of the jumpers from most of the D.Z.s PM me his name maybee I can fill in some of his details for you.
Watch my video Fat Women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI

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I showed up at the DZ after not jumping since 95, and spoke to the DZso about what I needed to get back intoo the sport. He needed to see a logbook or some sort of documentation, military jump logs. I came back with my logbook and we both agree that I would go on some student jumps and go through the ground training. The number of jumps would depend on the instructor's assesment. This was an expensive proposal as i was paying the full student cosyt per jump...,but I also felt this was a smart and prudent choice. Not only was i responsible for my safety, but also for all other jumpers at that DZ.
I took the class and it was a good refresher, and the six student jumps, were beneficial to get used to the DZ procedures and the equipment. I would be leaey of someone letting me jump, sight unseen without seeing my logs. I am greatfull that there are so many safety conscious folks out in the community. \
Thanks for your stand.

Miguel
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<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>

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GREAT CALL TIM! I used to get a few of those each season when I was managing at Finger Lakes. You'd hear terms like, "It's been a few years" - read 35-40, "I think it's some kind of cloud, with a 3 ring circus.." read The deceased was uncurrent and jumping unfamiliar equipment......

You saved him (for a while) but more importantly you saved your reputation and the industries integrity.

(hope that Pilot Chute turned up in time?)
Pete Draper,

Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right?

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I jumped in the 70's and have met plenty of others who have also, many of them, like me, took a fair amount of time off. None of us had the attitude of the guy you describe. I was completely unfazed at bringing out my logbooks, getting in to the hanging harness, etc. In fact, I would have been disappointed if the DZO had not demanded those things. At that time I had about 1600 jumps. This guy is an anomoly, but I'll remind you that his attitude is exactly like some young guys today. It wasn't really any different then than it is now. Some people have way too much confidence in themselves. Often now referred to as a "pre-femur".

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

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Hi Teas.,
"Why yes I happen to Skydive too!!!!" :ph34r::D:D:D:D:D:D:D Guys like that come out of the woodwork now and then and are good for comic relief between my second and third beer. If you play your cards right, you can get them to buy a few cases!!

Even with logs and a current USPA card someone can try to pull a fast one. A couple of years ago "some guy" showed up at Scare-us-valley wanting to get back into jumping after a considerable layoff. We were talkin' out in front of manifest and he says his last jumps were on a P.C./Super Pro/belly wart and he wanted to try a piggy-back with a throw-out. Didn't see him again till the next weekend. Well, to make a long story short, he made a crater out past the North end of the runway about a half a mile up, next to the road. From what I heard, his mind set was still on his Superpro as at pull time (I don't know how much ground practice he had with his NEW gear??) he pulled the cutaway handle!! (Same place as main ripcord on a Super Pro!) Well, what ever he did next didn't work too well because he ran out of brains, altitude and ideas about the same time. As it turned out, (apres' crater) there was some ??? as to the authenticity of his logs!!!!!

So, Teas., you did good by sending this guy on his way. Well, maybe he could have hung around till BEER:30 and bought a few cases! :D:D:D
SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

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Two guys show up for the FJC. A pilot I was flying with freaks out "What the F are they doing here?" Uhh, they're here for the FJC. He goes "Oh no, you don't want them jumping. They both have about 5 AAD saves between them." SAY WHOOO WHAAAAHHHH?????

When confronted they said that they just "wanted to start over with another logbook and do this skydiving thing".

We sent them home. Thank God that pilot was standing with me and recognized them from another DZ and knew their history.
Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

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If this guy had checked out and started skydiving again, he would have been in for a real dose of reality. I know I had to swallow some of that cockiness, skydivers today are far better than we were in those times. :$

Whippersnappers, don't get cocky over that, we blazed through a trail of unknowns for you. ;)

Ed



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This sounds almost "exactly" like a guy who showed up at Skydive Gananoque a few years ago, right down to the capewells. The only difference was that he showed up with his gear. This guy also had a plastic reserve handle (may have been fiberglas or another material though, not that it makes much difference). God only knows how out of date the reserve was [:/]

He was sent packing then too, but not before shooting a crap load of attitude and a few insults at Tom McCarthy (the owner).

Both Tom and his brother John new this guy from the "old days". If you email Tom he will give you the guys name if you wanted to confirm it. It was so ridiculous that it still comes up in conversation even now so Tom will remember it well.

I'm sure all the other operators out there would do the same thing and "shoo" this guy away, but it may not hurt to pass the word around about him - just in case.

Fuzzy
Ambition / Ability: Know the difference.

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Here's the other side of a similar story:

A couple of years ago I wanted to come back after a 10 year break. I had about 200 jumps at the time. And yes, my jumps were on gear that would be obsolete today but not comical.

I called the local big, organized, business-style DZ and asked them what it would take to get back into the sport. Their answer was "You'll have to start over and take the entire AFF series." "You're kidding!" "That's the rule. No exceptions."

I then called a smaller, family-style DZ and asked the DZO the same question. His answer was, "Well, come on down. We'll review your logs, catch you up on what's changed since you last jumped, and then go out for an AFF-style jump together. After that, we'll see what else you need."

Which one sounds more like it's run by an expert skydiver and which one like it's run by a beaurocracy? Guess which DZ I went to?

After an hour of reviewing my logs and giving me refresher training, the DZO took me out for a simple jump together. He saw I was stable and confident in freefall and had good canopy skills. Back in the hanger we reviewed the jump and he welcomed me back to the sport. No problem!

The moral of the story? The DZO who reviewed my logs, talked with me, then took me out for jump used his judgement and was able to realize that I was not full of shit. I really did what I'd said and I was still reasonably safe. If I'd really needed more, he would have said so. The other DZ run by the rulebooks instead of observation and judgement almost ended my return to skydiving before it began.


First Class Citizen Twice Over

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I've been around a few 'retrains' and the trend is usually; the more they protest = the worse they do.

Never assume it's like riding a bicycle, it might be, but there is no guarantee for any reason.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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I had a jumper that hadn't jumped since about 1980. He used to own a DZ back in the 70s and had 500+ jumps.
Because we use a classic progression, it was no problem getting him up to speed in a short number jumps and without a great exspense. I also took advice from our jumpers who jumped back in the day (at his DZ!) to understand what his experience was and how to bo about reintergrating him.

The main thing was that he understood that he had to become familiar with the equipment and that he was uncurrent. I think it made his retraining quicker. He just bought new gear and jumps every other weekend now!

I think the DZ you first went to didn't want to spend the time to tailor the training for your perticular situation and experience level.

As Instructors we owe it to our students to give them the best and safest experience.
Glad you found one that could;)


I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

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A lot of jumper who "used to jump in the 70's" can't remember the 70's. Except you and me, right.:P
Sparky



My memory is about shot, but I have lot's of great memories of the 70's. I quit in the mid 70's, then made 5 or 6 jumps in the mid 80's. There was no refresher training at all. I just asked to go up, showed them my old red jump logs (which showed less than 300. The last one was dated ten years earlier. The Pilot "Crazy Jay" was flying jumpers when I first started jumping, so he put in a good word for me, and everything was cool.

Everyone started to laugh when I dawned my baggy jump suit, b-12 container with cape wells, portia goggles, frenchies, belly reserve, and motorcycle helmet. I'm sure these jumpers had reservations about jumping with me. Jay just laughed and told us all to get on board. We went up and did some RW. I fell as stable as ever, and everything was safe. I hadn't packed a reserve in years, and I hoped I did it right. On one of these jumps I had a malfunction and cut my para-commander away with shot and a halfs. I sprained both ankles in a rock pile under an oscillating 24 foot reserve, but uncurrency didn't affect anything. I made one more jump (a demo into a school) and then quit for another 15 years.

At a reunion boogie at our old DZ I went to renew old friendships. The next thing you know several of us were thinking of jumping again. After 20 minutes of refresher training we went up and I fell base for four old friends. Everything went well, noone was endangered (Including myself). We built a nice five way and I pulled out of it while the others watched.

Our club safety officer thought things would turn out okay or I wouldn't have been allowed in the air. I felt confident that I could do things safely and I was allowed to go up on a load.

This was probably not smart on my part or our safety officer, but I'm glad he let me do it. I doubt if I'd be jumping today if I had to spend hundreds of dollars to completely retrain. The owner of this DZ was another old friend. He was taking a big chance by letting this happen. I'm sure liability issues were dancing in his head. All I can say is that I'm happy to be back.

Maybe this story helps explain why so many people bounced back in the old days. The rules USPA have today serve a purpose and probably keep a lot of us foolhardy jumpers alive.

I still think that just because an old jumper is uncurrent doesn't mean he has to start at the same level as a first time jumper though. I don't think you ever forget how to fall stable. RW skills return quickly...Steve1

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Yet another "there I was."
I basically quit jumping around 1988, with the previous 4 years being spotty. Made 2 jumps in 1992 (just walked in and jumped), and then called an extremely rules-oriented friend who had been bugging me to come back out that it was probably time.

He's an I/E, so he put me through a 2-hour refresher on the house; showed me the mechanical advantage of the riser inserts, and loaned me his Cypres-equipped rig for my first jump back; a solo from 12000.

With no problems on that jump, I did a 2-way using my own 1983 gear with another instructor, and had fun. I've been back since; jumped that 1983 gear for about 1 1/2 years (the best answer to the stares and gasps is "I bought it new" said with a smile) until I bought my current gear.

I'd've gone elsewhere if I'd been asked to take a full-up progression; with 1100 jumps and a couple of expired instructors' tickets, it'd've been silly to do that. On the other hand, I wouldn't have had a problem with doing a one-JM AFF-style jump, but, well, I'll admit I'd've hoped for a price break since I'd worked with most of the instructional staff at the dz. What can I say -- one can always hope :)

So yet another jumper from the 70's and 80's lived through recurrency. Really, thinking about it, a level 4 or so jump after a refresher for an experienced jumper is not unreasonable. But I'm glad I didn't pay as much; I might have waited longer.

Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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