Skydive Flagstaff

[bbarnhouse 0]

Well here we go again....another bogus site from 1-800-skyride.
There are no skydiving operations in Flagstaff Arizona.
Photos are used without permission....same story.

[jumper03 0]

Quote

There are no slydiving operations in Flagstaff Arizona.

Is this like jumping out before the green light comes on?

Scars remind us that the past is real

[diablopilot 2]

When it comes to the pictures used without permission I have to agree that it's foul play, but the Skydive Flagstaff part? No biggie that I can see. Is skydive Chicago really in Chicago? Is Skydive San Francisco really in San Francisco? Is Skydive Dallas really in Dallas?

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[bbarnhouse 0]

the nearest drop zone to Flagstaff is skydive Sedona in Cottonwood and they run a Cessna dz. Its about 30 minutes from Sedona.

Trouble is when you call for information they try to sell certificates to drop zones that don't even honor said certificates.
Its a sham, we all know it. Course they have also listed a couple of new skydiving businesses in California that dont exist.

[damonsteele 0]

I think the real issue is, is there really a Skydive Flagstaff out there. Is it a place where a prospective student go make a jump?

[bbarnhouse 0]

Quote

is there really a Skydive Flagstaff out there

No. No drop zone, no planes, no business...nothing. Oh but they do have a website with some cool copywrited photos that they down right do not have permission to use.
Just an FYI this is a network that spans the Nation. We've all taked about it numerous times.
Really bad form.

[markbaur 0]

Quote

[T]he Skydive Flagstaff part? No biggie that I can see. Is skydive Chicago really in Chicago? Is Skydive San Francisco really in San Francisco? Is Skydive Dallas really in Dallas?

Are you serious?

If you wanted to, you could skydive at Skydive Chicago, Skydive San Francisco, and Skydive Dallas.

Perhaps you should take the twenty-minute drive to Skydive Flagstaff and see if they'll let you jump there.

Mark

[diablopilot 2]

I don't know if I'd call it a sham. It's a business that is generating alot of customers for some DZ's.

The do have some questionable practices, such as using images without permission. But registering your name as "Skydive " is not ilegal and many DZ's do it.

No one raises a stink about 1-800-Skydive and how they direct people past nearby DZ's to ones furthur away just because that DZ subscribes to their service.


Edit: Correction.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[bbarnhouse 0]

Quote

No one raises a stink about 1-88-Skydive and how they direct people past nearby DZ's to ones furthur away just because that DZ subscribes to their service.

They don't? I find that interesting. The USPA has had meetings regarding 1-800-Skyride. Jan Meyer one of our USPA Board members has done exentensive research.
Our own Val had a experience posted in the forums.
Maybe asking Groundzero how their unethical business pricatices have impacted his dz.
No one raises a stink?
Glad to know that Brent Finley and Skydive Arizona are no one...we've had people show up with certificates, we don't have any dealings wtih 1-800-skyride.
Ethical? I think not.
There are several people that have raised a stink, and if anyone thinks this is good for skydiving as a whole, I would suggest they think again.

Quote

But registering your name as "Skydive " is not ilegal and many DZ's do it.

But selling certificates where drop zones do not exists, or sending people to drop zones that don't honor them is plain ol bait and switch.

see here

and here

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

They don't? I find that interesting. The USPA has had meetings regarding 1-800-Skyride.

Please re-read my post. I said 1-800-Skydive (acctually the first time around my typo said 1-88-Skydive.)

The USPA has no controling interest in this acctivity other than to restrict who they give group memberships to. Since 1-800-Skyride doesn't acctually have a DZ of their own (just like 1-800-Skydive) who cares.I don't think they do.

I still contend the the purchasing of domain names and redirection of customers is a) not illegal, and b) is bringing some DZ's (those that subscribe to the service) quite alot of business.

Quote

But selling cirtificates where drop zones do not exists, or sending people to drop zones that don't honor them is plain ol bait and switch.

I've never seen this.

If the custome simply goes to the wrong DZ, who's fault is that? At my old home DZ we had a large group book at another DZ, and show up at ours. We wouldn't honner their deposits. They got mad. Who's fault was that?

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[bbarnhouse 0]

Quote

If the custome simply goes to the wrong DZ

Read my post and the links I've attached all of them. Perhaps that will give you a better idea of what is really happening.

Quote

I've never seen this.

I have, and as stated there are many others as listed in the earlier posts.

[diablopilot 2]

Again, other than the photos thing, what are they doing that is ilegal, the 1800-Skydive is not? Why the vendetta for just running a successful business?

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[bbarnhouse 0]

Quote

Again, other than the photos thing, what are they doing that is ilegal, the 1800-Skydive is not? Why the vendetta for just running a successful business?

let me make this simple, and I'll speak a bit plainer.
The company that offers the certificates is not in Arizona. It is on the east coast.
People call to skydive say in Arizona and said company sells them a certificate to jump at x,y,z drop zone in Arizona.
Problem is x,y,z drop zones in Arizona does not deal with the company on the east coast.
The customer shows up expecting to jump at x, y or z drop zone...only to learn that the certificates arent any good at x,y,z.
Nothing wrong with that you say?

I don't have an issue with payclicks nor do I have issue with sights that redirect to another drop zone in that vacinity.
I do have issue with selling services to consumers that are bogus.
And so it goes... content of character.

[PhreeZone 15]

Actually.. 1800Skyride is now using the profits they generate from the "referals" to open up DZ's right next to their larger refers. Skydive Pennridge opened up off the profits of the area DZ's.

The DZO's that own the 1800Skyride company are up to 4 or 5 DZ/Tandem factories they own now. One in AL, one in GA, one in PA, I heard about one in Minn also but am not positive on it.

DZO's that accept these certificates are only shooting themselves in the foot since Ben and Cary will just use the money to open a DZ next to you and compete with you.

1800Skydive is limited to area codes. At least DZ's have the possibility of directing local traffic if they pay the licence fee. Last count was well into 200+ sites that Ben and Cary have created to get traffic. I don't mind them doing that, I get pissed that they will sell you a certificate, say you can use it only at their affliated DZ's... that turn out to be thier own even if another DZ agreed to be in their network.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[diablopilot 2]

I aghree with what you have said. I have read every thread avbout this organization, and have been following them personaly for a couple years since they first approched the DZ I used to work for to solicit their service. We turned them down at the time.

Here's the deal.

As for the pictures an content, if the individuals who have had their work used without permision have not filed legal action, then they should.

Otherwise I have not seen any concrete proof of wrong doing, only roumors and customer mistakes wrongly blamed. Untill there is proof of LEGALwrong doing then this all smells a bit like a witch hunt.

I find it funny that people are so up in arms about this, but let this sort of activity slid when it's a) a different entity (say 1-800-Skydive) or b) a diferent type of service that might not affect them directly (say "trunk" gear dealers)

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[bbarnhouse 0]

Quote

only roumors and customer mistakes wrongly blamed.

So the last 3 that have come to Skydive Arizona with certificates were all mistakes?
Hey you guuuuuuuyz...I've got a bridge to sell...

[MakeItHappen 15]

JP - we need to talk!

Take a look at LASkydiving.com staff and
AZ Challenge
oops I meant this pic
smaller pics

I am in the staff photo for LASkydiving. I can tell you that I have never, ever worked for LASkydiving. That DZ does not even exist.

Several of Brent Finley's pics and other photographers' pictures have been used without permission.

Several websites have been knocked off entirely. Paul's Parachuting in Australia and Tim Eason in Canada.

The SkyRide folks have been stealing from the rest of the skydiving community for many years.

In order to sue these people the lawsuits have to be placed into an Atlanta court. In reality, it is difficult for a foreigner to do this. There is a growing group of US based people that have had their work stolen that may band together to file suit.

I'll tell you of one example that illustrates the 'bogus' deception of the SkyRide folks. [Many other similar stories are available too.]

Customer shows up at School A with a certificate bought through SkyRide. The DZO of DZ A says they do not accept those certificates. The customer laments that he specifically asked for School A because his buddies did jumps there and had a great experience. DZO of School A says he does not accept those certificates. He mentions that School B does accept those certificates, maybe they can take you??? Customer goes to School B, a few feet from School A. The customer does a jump and has a great time. The customer also has a 'how I was hood-winked' story that reflects poorly of School A and B as part of his first jump story.

Ok - so the jumper never makes another jump. But the stories he tells about his experiences are tainted by this deception - all manifested by the SkyRide folks.

JP - tell me how the sport benefits from that??
I can see how the DZ (School B) benefits in the short term money flow benefits.
How does our sport benefit with deceptive practices like this?
JP- I can personally introduce you to the person that told me this story.

I also know that School B has cut back on advertising money for first jump students. All I can say when SkyRide flies in their AC to a nearby airport to open the SkyRide DZ, is that I've been telling this story for years. If School B wants to finance the startup of other nearby DZS, that is ok, but I think School B might be out of business in the future.

On the other side of the country, a DZ that once admonished SkyRide practices are now participating in them. This east coast DZ used to say 'no hidden charges', now it purports a $30 gear rental fee, so that it's initial look price is lower. Maybe this is also an indicator of what happens after a SkyRide operation opens up in the neighborhood.

1-800-SkyDive is an entirely different business model. Real DZs buy rights to area codes for 800 skydive. The calls go directly to the REAL DZ in the area, not some Atlanta based mumbo-jumbo organization.

There are lessons to be learned, but most people seeing the easy money up front right now, today, do not see the downside.

Time will tell.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[douwanto 22]

[Since 1-800-Skyride doesn't acctually have a DZ of their own (just like 1-800-Skydive) who cares.I don't think they do.

They do own 3 DZ's not doing your home work before opening your key board.

Quote

But selling cirtificates where drop zones do not exists, or sending people to drop zones that don't honor them is plain ol bait and switch.

"I've never seen this."

You must not be looking or listening this is what this thread is about.
I can name 50 places or dot coms for places thet dont exist. Including my home town, skydivealbany.com




If the custome simply goes to the wrong DZ, who's fault is that? At my old home DZ we had a large group book at another DZ, and show up at ours. We wouldn't honner their deposits. They got mad. Who's fault was that?

[bbarnhouse 0]

Interestingly enough I just read the Capital Commentary this morning in the October issue of Parachutist written by Chris Needles, USPA Executive Director.
If you receive Parachutist please do read this in its entirety as it speaks to this very issue.
The following is an excerpt from his commentary, and yes it is rather long.

Quote

Aspiring jumpers often go to the yellow pages or surf the internet. Usually, the person just wants to make a tandem jump and simply wants to find the nearest drop zone...

He goes on to say:

Quote

Sadly,however, the selection process isn't always this straight forward. There are those that resort to unethical if not illegal, advertising schemes to snare potential jumpers, mostly first-timers. USPA has heard many stories of customers, tandem coupons in hand, showing up at one of hundreds of DZ's that would supposedly accept the discount coupon but would not. To make their jumps, some have had to drive hundreds of miles and bypass legitimate DZs. Many have reported that they have visited internet sites which, at first glance, appear to be representing an existing DZ but are nothing more than a website. USPA has been following such practices and is working with its legal council to find ways to curtail such scams, but it will take more than a summons or threat of a suit to keep up with creative con-artists. Members need to get involved. Information is power. The more the word spreads about bait -and- switch and other deceptive practices by a few bad apples,the fewer potential skydivers will be turned away from our sport.

There is more and its worth the read.

[sunshine 2]

Thanks B2. I'll be sure and read the commentary when i receive my mag.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[riggerrob 558]

Quote

JP - we need to talk!

Take a look at LASkydiving.com staff and
AZ Challenge
oops I meant this pic
smaller pics

I am in the staff photo for LASkydiving. I can tell you that I have never, ever worked for LASkydiving. That DZ does not even exist.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Demand your back wages!
Hah!
Hah!

• Quote

[algboy 0]

"I think the real issue is, is there really a Skydive Flagstaff out there. Is it a place where a prospective student go make a jump?"

As a Flagstaff resident, I can tell you this: there is NO DZ operating in Flagstaff--period!

Why would you want to? Our field elevation here runs between 6,500-6,800. Without using O2, you're looking at a 20-25 second tandem ride and--maybe--a 35 second ride (belly flying) for those who can pull at 2,500AGL. Why bother?

Skydive Sedona at Cottonwood offers some great views, but shorter airtime. To go uphill to Flagstaff seems counterproductive. An entrepreneur would have to have more money than brains to open a DZ up here.

Hell, I'll gladly drive the 2.5 hours to Eloy to get my 60 secs airtime, great turbine aircraft, cool people and the chance to sit next to Amy and Missy twice in one day (SugarGliderz rock!).

“Keep your elbow up!"

[GraficO 0]

Jan,
Keep me in the loop if someone decides to band together on this... in the Skydive LA site I saw 4 of my photographs in there... and NO... nobody asked me for my permission to use them...

Hell... the photograph of the Velocity rig in the rigging section IS MY PERSONAL RIG.

thanks for getting my dander up... keep me posted on your findings and any other info you have.

GraficO

PS... there have been 2 other DZs that have asked me to do web interfaces for them in the similar fashion of 1800skyride (they will at this time remain unnamed) and I turned down the job for the BS you are describing. This just makes me mad as hell that these bastards are using intellectual property that is nowhere near in the public domain.

Believe me when I tell you... I have already spent $38K on lawyers to protect some of my art in federal copyright cases... not afraid to spend it again...

GraficO

"A Mind is a terrible thing to taste."