Drugs on a dz

[winsor 185]

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Explain a "windowpane" please.

LSD is active in minute quantities, so it is a bitch to dose accurately, and a variety of approaches have been taken over the years.

A "standard dose" in the bad old days was 250 mikes, so a "four way" hit was 1 milligram. Put another way, a small matchhead of pute LSD 25 is sufficient to put a platoon out of commission for 12 hours.

One of the first approaches was to prepare a standard solution (with dye, so it was identifiable) and apply a drop containing 250 mikes or thereabouts to a sugar cube, thus making it manageable. Later on, a standard solution was applied to absorbent paper, making "blotter" acid.

An approach that became common by the '70s was to prepare LSD with gelatine, which then could be dried into a thin sheet of uniform thickness and cut into small pieces. A gram of LSD 25 could then be split up into 4,000 (more or less, depending upon the whim of the manufacturer) thin, translucent rectangular pieces of gelatine with a standardized potency.

This was, of course, what is known as "windowpane" acid.

As I understand, it it still around, but blotter is more common and tablets are relatively rare.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[Vallerina 2]

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Okay...you're right....I've never seen any of my friends flip out when they thought it was "out of their system" because they went to bed.....oh wait...the next day, they still feel a few hrs after they wake up!

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[packerboy 3]

IMO if someone drops acid one night after the beer light goes on, chances are they shouldn't be jumping on the first load the next day. Unless it was a pretty early beer light, or pretty crappy acid.

I honestly didn't think that acid was even really popular any more, not as much so as newer "cleaner feeling" drugs. Goes to show how naive I am as well.

Just some opinions I have formed from observing people over the years.

--------------------------------------------------
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[Vallerina 2]

I was all wrong!

From now on it's okay to basically hear, "I would never jump high, but most loads you've been on, someone's been high." It's okay that cocaine is popular. It's okay that someone gets ostracized for voicing their opinion. All of this is okay!!!!

However, if all of this is okay, then don't be hypocritical. Don't say that you have one of the best dzs in the world and others should model themselves after you. Don't pretend that your staff is nothing but "good people." Don't pretend that your dz is open to anyone.

Do whatever you want, just don't lie or by hypocritical about it. It's not so much that the problem exists...it's that people deny it when the problem is pointed out.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[Vallerina 2]

I don't really care what people do in their own homes. If you want to go and shoot up in your own home, then that's your business even if I think it's dumb. However, when drugs are so easily accesible, obviously jumping while impaired is going to happen more frequently. You aren't going to go to a drug-free dz and see a ton of people jumping while on E.

Also, the fewer autopsies with drugs in a skydiver's system, the better. Everyone likes to pretend that the drugs and skydiving stereotype isn't as true as it really is.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[unformed 0]

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Okay...you're right....I've never seen any of my friends flip out when they thought it was "out of their system" because they went to bed.....oh wait...the next day, they still feel a few hrs after they wake up!

There's a big difference between feeling a little bit different, and having flashbacks. Anybody who knows what they're talking about knows you don't get flashbacks because you dosed the previous day. You might feel a little up, a little down, maybe even have some slight tracers, but it is definitely not something unmanageable, like a flashback.

Speaking of which, as others have said, flashbacks are bullshit. They don't happen. Some event might remind a user about an experience they had before, and they could get worked up about it, but that's not a flashback, that's deja vu.

This ad space for sale.

[Vallerina 2]

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You might feel a little up, a little down, maybe even have some slight tracers, but it is definitely not something unmanageable, like a flashback.

Okay, so a friend dropped acid 16 hrs prior to her experience. Obviously, when she woke up she felt fine and dandy otherwise she wouldn't have driven. Then, for a few minutes, she felt under the influence suddenly. It wasn't long, but yes, that's what she felt even after she was "fine." Yes, I've seen her on acid, and I've seen her go from fine to flipping out.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[unformed 0]

acid lasts 12 hours and comes in waves. that gives you a few more hours of minor effects afterwards. You can expect it to last up to 18, more if you've combined with anything else. Generally, you want to able to rest without doping anything the next day. She should've known better.

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[Vallerina 2]

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She should've known better.

Gee...imagine someone being dumb about what they do while on drugs

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[gordy 0]

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imagine someone being dumb about what they do while on drugs

that would be pretty dumb!

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Let's not turn this already off-topic conversation into a "how to" on illicit drug use. I am about two seconds away from moving it over to SC anyway. This is a social issue, not a skydiving discussion.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

Oh to be a DEA Agent on a DZ...Make a year's worth of busts in a night.

People, if you want to legalize drugs, go thru the legislative process. Otherwise, if you break the law, expect to be punished. Whining about "The Man" and "Freedom" is useless and annoying.

Drugs should NOT be on a DZ. what's the difference between taking drugs and jumping, and taking drugs and driving?

It only takes one bust for the DEA to sieze the entire DZ. Is your pathetic, greedy little need for a fix really worth the DZ being siezed?

I've even heard stories about military personnel who jump using... As an Officer, I'd see to it that if those persons did use, they'd be doing hard time at Ft. Leavenworth...Use and possession is illegal under the UCMJ...

Drugs are the lazy person's route to fulfillment. (And don't give me the Jerry Springer-like "You don't know me" song-n-dance...it's pathetic..)

[wmw999 2,116]

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I think a DZ has every right to ban drug use altogether and kick people off who are found using, even after hours. I have no problem with people who want to smoke pot, but they should "get a room". Reason is that the drug laws are so stupid that the Feds can come in, shut down the DZ and sell off the assets under the RAVE Act. It's a bad law that stinks, but until we get the Nazis out of Congress (and the White House) we'll just have to live with it.

What he said. I also remember jumping in the 1970's, but most of the illicit activity was after jumping hours. Maybe I just wasn't very cool, and wasn't invited.

I've seen plenty of involved skydiving; the most likely were night jumps where people just couldn't wait before doing the night jump. Bad timing. But I've also never seen a fatality of even (probably) an injury due to it, so I can't contribute to the there-I-was stories about that.

But any DZ owner worth his salt will want to protect his assets, which would mean making drug usage formally proscribed, and enforcing it.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[ladyskydiver 0]

hmmm....me thinks that those who cast stones aught to look closely at themselves. Whatever happened to:

JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED?

Agreed...I don't want to be on a load where someone's messed up - be it with drugs, alcohol, lack of sleep, emotionally upset, etc. But what they chose to do on their own time is their own business.

If you're going to start monitoring everyone that gets on a load, you'd better take a look at all OTC drugs, those that didn't get their required 8 hours of sleep, those that are going through an emotional period in their life, those that.... Get the picture?

**shaking head** Must be nice for those that are perfect, always on top of their game, etc. to cast stones.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

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hmmm....me thinks that those who cast stones aught to look closely at themselves. Whatever happened to:

JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED?

Agreed...I don't want to be on a load where someone's messed up - be it with drugs, alcohol, lack of sleep, emotionally upset, etc. But what they chose to do on their own time is their own business.

If you're going to start monitoring everyone that gets on a load, you'd better take a look at all OTC drugs, those that didn't get their required 8 hours of sleep, those that are going through an emotional period in their life, those that.... Get the picture?

**shaking head** Must be nice for those that are perfect, always on top of their game, etc. to cast stones.

Defending your "right" to break the law/endanger others safety, the DZO's business & assets, and the pilot's FAA Certificates? Just so you can have your poisons and get your sad little fix?

PATHETIC...

[Vallerina 2]

Okay, I have a new idea.

When I landed the plane down because I smelled weed, a lot of people were shocked. I'm not going to jump when I know for a fact someone is high, and I have no idea of who it is. Maybe it was someone I was on the jump with. Maybe it was someone after me. It is difficult for me to accept the risk of jumping while others are under the influence.

So, let's really accept if. If you or someone you know is jumping while under the influence, and if it's something that I should just accept is going to happen anyways, then at least tell people who are on your plane that you recently did whatever drugs.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[ladyskydiver 0]

Nice try at getting a rise outta me. Gotta do better than that.

Hate to break it to you, but I have never taken an illegal drug in my life and even suck at taking the prescription drugs.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[tigra 0]

I don't think anyone here is condoning or accepting jumping under the influence of ANYTHING. Impaired skydiving and what you do on your own time are 2 separate issues. And, remember alcohol is also a drug. if you drink alcohol (beer and champagne are alcoholic beverages) then you are also a drug user.
You choose not to jump impaired, you choose not to jump with people who are impaired. The majority of those of us who have read and responded to this thread have made those exact same choices. What I personally take issue with (and I don't think I'm alone) is your judgemental approach, when you yourself are also a Drug User.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

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As far has hardcore drugs go, I am against those, however POT IS NOT A DRUG.....anything that is grown from the earth, nad not chemicaly altered is not a drug, I am pro 420 all the way and will always will be. I do not condone smoking during the day, especially during jumps, but once the beer light is on HELL YA! That is one thing I love so much about being a skydiver and being around dropzones so much is that the majority of people are open minded and view weed the same way as I do....okay you may flame me now...

I cannot wait to video you saying this when you're being hauled away for possession...You dislike the laws, change them or risk the penalties....but then again, I doubt most stoners are organized enough to engage the legislative process... Bitching about laws with no attempts to change them is the hallmark of a lazy person. Gee, stoner? Lazy? never.... [/sarcasm]

[bigway 4]

One way to get this to SC..

VALLERINA FOR PRESIDENT!!!

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[winsor 185]

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Let's not turn this already off-topic conversation into a "how to" on illicit drug use. I am about two seconds away from moving it over to SC anyway. This is a social issue, not a skydiving discussion.

Okay, from a skydiving standpoint I see two key issues.

1) I don't want to see a good DZ shut down because someone shows up positive on a tox screen after an incident. The pressure could come from either litigation or such organizations as the DEA; the relative legality of the intoxicant being significant only in the case of the latter.

2) There are people with whom I won't jump because I consider them a threat to my safety and well-being. Being under the influence is certainly a factor, but the cases where I begged off and an intoxicant was involved were where aggression and bad judgment were present along with indications of alcohol use. I have jumped with people who had red eyes and an illegal smile, but was confident that they were well in tune with their responses in that condition. I really don't know about people doing much else, but if someone was behaving like a clumsy dullard such that I found it alarming, I wouldn't be reassured if they had a prescription for whatever induced their stupidity.

Thus, jumping under the influence is a bad idea from the standpoint of the health of the DZ.

Scratching from a load where someone is under the influence is something with which I agree and which I have done.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[stuffit 0]

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I cannot wait to video you saying this when you're being hauled away for possession...You dislike the laws, change them or risk the penalties....but then again, I doubt most stoners are organized enough to engage the legislative process... Bitching about laws with no attempts to change them is the hallmark of a lazy person. Gee, stoner? Lazy? never.... [/sarcasm]

Trying to get weed legalized is a waste of time anyway. Its Ok though, you just keep using your drugs that the government tells you are ok.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

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I cannot wait to video you saying this when you're being hauled away for possession...You dislike the laws, change them or risk the penalties....but then again, I doubt most stoners are organized enough to engage the legislative process... Bitching about laws with no attempts to change them is the hallmark of a lazy person. Gee, stoner? Lazy? never.... [/sarcasm]

Trying to get weed legalized is a waste of time anyway. Its Ok though, you just keep using your drugs that the government tells you are ok.

And I'll laugh at your victimization complex as I video you being arrested for possession, or if you're an even bigger dumbass, possession with intent to distribute, after which I will laugh even more at the thought of your habit being responsible for your new status as Bubba's girfriend when you're serving time in prison.

[jerry81 10]

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Defending your "right" to break the law/endanger others safety, the DZO's business & assets, and the pilot's FAA Certificates? Just so you can have your poisons and get your sad little fix?

PATHETIC...

I think your reply highlights the problem with this debate; it's difficult, if not impossible, to discuss just the common sense aspect of drugs in skydiving without taking into consideration the legal aspect. As I've said before, there are a couple of people I don't mind jumping with even when they've had a smoke between jumps. I know them well enough to understand that the skydive won't get significantly more dangerous because of that, and (un)fortunately, regulations around here are so loose all those other things you mention don't even enter the equation.
But if we're discussing jumping in the States, what you wrote, i.e. the legal implications of jumping stoned, is the only part of this debate in which a very final conclusion can be reached.

May the equine carcass bashing continue...

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[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I don't think there is anything that anyone could add to this thread which hasn't already been said.

Chuck