Drugs on a dz

[Vallerina 2]

Basically, I just want to have a discussion on if people think that drugs on the dz is a problem.

My stance: just because many dropzones have all sorts of hard drugs done after hours doesn't mean that it's okay for others to do so. Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's acceptable. The more welcoming a dropzone is of after hours ecstacy/coke/speed whatever, the easier it is for jumeprs to go and do drugs during the day. I'm a selfish individual; I don't want others to ruin my fun and make me worry about stuff that shouldn't be an issue but is: skydivers on drugs.

Should dzs take a stricter stance on drugs to keep us all safe? SGC has a very strict policy that I applaud them for: they kick people off the dz if they do drugs.

Yes, I don't have to jump where drugs are common. I have that choice, and I'm well aware of my choices. Just because I can speak with my dollar, should I not speak with words as well? Where does an owner draw the line between keeping the popular people happy and keeping everyone else feeling comfortable? Should a person feel forced into having to "just deal with it" to enjoy jumps?

When it comes to hard drugs, I'm a big ol' prude. Drugs were cool when I was in high school because people in high school tend to be insecure. Grow up, people. Drugs are not cool. It is not cool to fill whatever void you have in your life with something so empty.

How much longer do people like me have to put up with others being retarded?

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[bigway 4]

Drugs on a dropzone during the day is not cool......i stopped taking drugs of any kind, aprt from nictoeine and booze when i started jumping, cause my instructors were fing with us by saying we can have a random drug test.
I do not think dropzones should crack down on drugs because then it will feel like you are always being watched, this is not cool. I think it is up to the jumper, and if they want to do drugs well that is up to them and they suck for that. No crack downs though or it will get out of hand. Look i am fine with people going for a 'safety meeting' with mary jane at the end of the day but we don't need to all know about it and we don't need to discriminate them either. The people on a dz that dont do drugs drink beer, and if they dont drink they skydive, we all have our drug of choice, i dont think anyone should be publicly made to feel bad about who they are on a dz. i amlucky in new zealand cause coke is not easy to find and ecstasy is about 40 U.S dollars a pill....we only really have weed and speed. Half my country smokes pot, only 300 of us skydive though.

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[Vallerina 2]

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think it is up to the jumper, and if they want to do drugs well that is up to them and they suck for that.

But what if they're infringing on me because of their choices? What if under canopy they have flashbacks because it was okay for them to do a bunch of acid the night before?

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[billvon 2,380]

>I do not think dropzones should crack down on drugs because then it will
>feel like you are always being watched, this is not cool.

Skydivers pretty much are always being watched. It's part of the sport; we watch out for each other. If someone is doing hook turns on an overloaded canopy at 100 jumps, then it's our duty (I think) to say something. Likewise, if they do a few lines of coke at 4am and are taking tandems up at 9am, it's something that (I hope) someone would talk to them about.

[Vallerina 2]

Also, I'm not that naive. I know that people have to pick and choose who they piss off. Pissing me, a nobody in the sport, off isn't such a big deal. Pissing off other people because you ruin their "fun" is a big deal, unfortunately.

Luckily, I don't really care who people are.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[bigway 4]

sure, i was not looking at it as staff taking drugs. I think it would not be so bad if all tandem masters and instructors were drug tested but, the sport jumper, well i am from a smaller dropzone, and i belive on my dz you would be an outcast if you were a user. people would tend to stay away from you. i know we are all being watched but i have never heard that we were being watched for drugs. i hope i am not in the air with some loser taking coke,.....well i guess what i said would be wronmg if i was from the states as you are much bigger dz's. here in new zealand though, we have skydivers that smoke pot, but all my mates that smoke the pot do it when the jumping is over. This is fine with me. this post could go round and round in circles but i really hope you guys do not feel dangered by jumpers( your family) at your dropzone. I am sorry if you do.

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[bigway 4]

hold on a sec..........just doing the zipper up on my flame suit......ok....hit me

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[Vallerina 2]

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I think it would not be so bad if all tandem masters and instructors were drug tested but

Okay, even my friends in high school could figure out ways around the test.

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i belive on my dz you would be an outcast if you were a user. people would tend to stay away from you

That rocks. Many dzs, you are a part of the "cool crowd" if you are a user. You are a "dork" like me if you call it stupid.

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here in new zealand though, we have skydivers that smoke pot,

I'm excluding pot from this discussion because it isn't a hard drug. It's not as bad for you as a hard night of drinking. You don't get flashbacks. It's simple to test for weed with a simple saliva test.

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this post could go round and round in circles but i really hope you guys do not feel dangered by jumpers( your family) at your dropzone.

I don't feel endangered by drugs at some dropzones. Other dzs, it's way too easy to access drugs, so I do worry. I don't like to worry.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[Reginald 0]

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When it comes to hard drugs, I'm a big ol' prude.

Silly, question - you seem to be singling out "hard drugs” which I assume excludes pot. Are you making an exception for it? Which leads me to believe that you think it is okay, which would indicate that you might light up from time to time. If so is this position a bit hypocritical? If not why? Or please feel free to tell me I’m totally off base here.

My personal opinion…I don’t want to jump with or see people jumping while impaired in any way.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[Vallerina 2]

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If not why? Or please feel free to tell me I’m totally off base here.

Well, I kinda explained it in my last post about why I exclude pot. It's more difficult to sneak away, smoke a joint, and then get on a plane. Obviously, it's not impossible. However, you are more likely to get caught. Plus, the way that weed affects a person isn't as drastic as the way heavy drugs affect a person.

It's kinda like saying it's hypocritical of me to jump with people who are on caffeine....I think caffeine is acceptable because of how it affects a person's body.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[bigway 4]

well i think if you jump completley sober and you love skydiving...you rock to girl.
Just what i think, if you dont like the drug scene and there is one, just stay away from them and their loads. We can't change the way people are.

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[Vallerina 2]

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We can't change the way people are.

Sometimes, I think we should try, though.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[xavenger 0]

Does the term drugs - include beer?

Looking at the skydiving community as a whole and the number of people who participate in excessive "beer" consumption and those who participate in other recreational drugs .. I believe an incident is more likely to occur from the beer across the community as a WHOLE.

That's not to say other recreational drugs on the dropzone should be tolerated, of course not(!!!), but alcohol is by far the most prolific drug.

I think practially every single time I have been to a DZ there has been at least 1 person jumping who has been out drinking the night before, or who extremely tired from a late night or both.

I have lost count of the number of times people have said to me how "trashed" they were the night before or how tired they are .. and then they go and jump to wake themselves up.


> Grow up, people. Drugs are not cool.
> It is not cool to fill whatever void you
> have in your life with something so empty.

Playing devils advocate again:

I don't think drugs are "cool". I agree. But you seem to have missed the point as to why most people induldge. People do drugs because they ENJOY THEM, they are fun, often sociable, it gives them a buzz, it's affordable. Similar reasons to why many people skydive?

You might find no appeal in recreational drug use and you may not understand it at all. Just like most people don't understand for a second why you would want to hurl yourself out of a plane.


I am not advocating the use of drugs on the dropzone whatsoever. I think it's stupid and dangerous to jump whilst impared. But what the hell is "impaired" ..!

[bigway 4]

have you tried coke? i think straight after a joint, you are more wasted than straight after a line of coke. have you tried LSD? well i think half an hour after lsd....peaking at the door, you are one mad person to be doing this....i can not imagine anyone surviving a jump on LSD. This would be like playing russian roulette. Any drugs are shit on a jump. they are dangerous. I remember my instructor would not let me jump after a sip of jack and coke a cola. he then let me go up on aff level three and i did not pull the rip cord cause i could not find it....this was only a sip. skydiving is my drug. we think drug uses are bad, whuffos think skydivers are mad? you cant win.

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[crwmike 0]

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think it is up to the jumper, and if they want to do drugs well that is up to them and they suck for that.

But what if they're infringing on me because of their choices? What if under canopy they have flashbacks because it was okay for them to do a bunch of acid the night before?

You 'might' want separate 'use' and 'impairment' ...well you might want to read up on the fallacy of flashbacks also. This 'fact' is right up there with 'students going blind staring at the sun' and other scare tactics. The PTA (Parent Teachers Association) unabashedly takes credit for much of these tactics under the philolophy of 'whatever works to keeps kids off drugs'.

I don't like skydiving around impaired skydivers. I am much more concerned with skydivers who drink themselves stupid and go skydiving that day, than I am with those passing a blunt around the bonfire.

During the day of skydiving, the alcohol user is impaired ...by just about any reasonable test of perception, cognition and reaction time. The pot smokers will test unimpaired. Thems the facts. The other drugs you mentioned, well, I don't want to be around them ...anywhere.

The final thing I ask you to think about (with no disrespect intended) is your concern for safety vs your need to control.

In short, I've seen two DZ's in 30 years where I thought the drug use was out of hand ...neither exists anymore.

BSBD,

Michael

[bigway 4]

i am thinking you might not drink?
i have been trashed the night before many times, but that first jump well that is one hell of a cure for a hang over. it wakes you up the second that door is open. I know this is not good but it is true.

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[Vallerina 2]

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I believe an incident is more likely to occur from the beer across the community as a WHOLE.

It's easier to tell if someone has been drinking beer than it is to see if someone just rolled.

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People do drugs because they ENJOY THEM, they are fun, often sociable, it gives them a buzz, it's affordable. Similar reasons to why many people skydive?

I don't care if people do drugs on their own time. If you go home and do speed, fine. What a person does in their own home is up to them. What you do out at a dz does affect me, however. If someone drops acid at 3 am and they're on my plane at 9 am, I have to worry about their state of mind. I know what acid does to a person. When I see my friends having flashbacks during a Spanish exam, who's to say that they aren't going to have flashbacks under canopy?

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[sunshine 2]

Drugs are illegal. If someone gets caught with drugs on a DZ, they could get arrested which in turn gives bad press to the DZ. If a bunch of jumpers are drinking beer late at night, no big deal, no laws being broken. So if a person is doing illegal drugs on the DZ property, the DZ owner should really step up and do something about it.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[xavenger 0]

Vallerina

> It's easier to tell if someone has been
> drinking beer than it is to see if someone
> just rolled.

Can you tell if someone is seriously hung over???

[Vallerina 2]

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The final thing I ask you to think about (with no disrespect intended) is your concern for safety vs your need to control.

Unfortunately, I have no control. I'm aware of that. I'm a nobody.

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you might want to read up on the fallacy of flashbacks also.

Well, I have witnesses who have experienced flashbacks....

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I am much more concerned with skydivers who drink themselves stupid and go skydiving that day, than I am with those passing a blunt around the bonfire.

Me, too. I am more concerned, however, with people who do heavy drugs, and I can't tell that they've done them. I know they do them, but I don't know when/where/etc.

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The other drugs you mentioned, well, I don't want to be around them ...anywhere.

Same here. I'm also sick of hearing, "If you don't like the drugs at a dz then leave." I don't know. Picking people who go and do heavy drugs over people who don't seems weird to me.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[mr2mk1g 10]

Separate the use of and the being impaired.

I don't care if what they took is legal or not I don't want impaired people on the DZ during jumping hours.

As for the DZ controlling what they use - how? Why? If they're not impaired then why do they care?

Stopping it on the DZ - probably a good idea as the use of such substances usually has legal implications for the landowner, it certainly does in the UK. It's also not something I want people to associate with the sport. It's also not something I want to be around and I want to be around the DZ.

[xavenger 0]

> am thinking you might not drink?
> i have been trashed the night before
> many times, but that first jump well
> that is one hell of a cure for a hang over.

No .. I like a beer very much. My point is - I think - there's probably far more people impaired by beer whilst jumping than people impaired by other recreational drugs. I also think someone sufferng from a hang-over is potentially just as dangerous or more that someone who's just had a smoke (depending on what they are smoking ofcourse!).

[billvon 2,380]

> Does the term drugs - include beer?

Absolutely! The issue isn't that cocaine is illegal (for example) the issue is that it can impair you, just as alcohol can. We just had an alcohol-related death in New Jersey; it happens.

The issues as I see them are:

-People who do drugs or drink shortly before they jump endanger other people on the load. I've known several of them, including some amazingly good skydivers. They get just as impaired as anyone else.

-People who drink until 3am and then show up to jump at 9am may well be endangering other jumpers; like anything else it's a matter of degree. If you had three beers over the course of the night you're probably fine. If you just started on your second case before you passed out, you're probably not.

-Risk aside, it's not cool to get a DZO busted or cause problems for him because of your drug usage. If you're doing drugs in plain sight, you may well get him raided or shut down.

[Vallerina 2]

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Separate the use of and the being impaired.

How do you test for someone that just rolled and is on the plane? How can you tell? If you know that it's acceptable for it to be on the dz, then there's a very good chance that it's happening during the day...especially if you can't/don't test for it.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[bigway 4]

vallerina, ok so your friends have flashbacks from acid well i belive you have been told this....but.....my story...about 9 years ago, my 2 best mates i grew up with were killed driving with a drunk driver coming to get me from work to take me to a party. i use to think this was my fault as i asked them...so anyway i took 28 lsd tabs over a period of 56 days...nother words one every second day because one every day did not seem to work...I can happily say, i have never had any flashbacks or anything happen to make me think of lsd. I dont belive in flash backs and the only people i have ever heard talk about them are people who have never used the drug....i belive the whole flash back thing on lsd is a scare tactic........sorry, hold...on a secon.....someone is under my bed asking if i want fry with my order.....no thanks mate, just the burger

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