Calling Cut

[skydivingwill 0]

A good question came up at my dz. We jump a Caravan here at the Clewiston Florida DZ. I've jumped out of Skyvan, Mullin's KingAir, Cesa, Porter, 206, 182 and a few others.

Why do we call cut? What is the point?

I use to out of habit up until 100 jumps and no long request it. To me the wind force and prop blast doesn't feel any different. I usually climb out first for camera spot. I even hear some complain that the front slot is worst because they take most of wind blast.

I jumped around 150 freefly jumps with a 110 lb girl that never complained about hanging outside at full speed. (I think she wanted best looking video.)

So what does everybody think the pros and cons are?

 
"It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
-J. K. Rowling
willtofly.com Videos, Pictures & News

[pkasdorf 0]

My modest experience is in a 182 for most of my jumps and, to me, it does makes a difference, it is easier to get into position for exit. Any way one can prefer not to cut (to maintain altitude, to "use" maximun blast, etc.). But there IS a difference.

HISPA # 18 POPS # 8757

[LawnDart21 0]

I always get nervous when I see jumpers with older gear back out of the door to float. Main pin flaps bouncing around in the air, possibly loose BOC spandex. I say the less wind the better on the container at that presentation into the wind. Pro: Cut

But then again I also love doing hop n pops without a cut and seeing the canopy inflate behind me instead of above me. Pro: No Cut

I guess I'm flip flopping. Maybe I should run for president?

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[billvon 2,394]

>Why do we call cut? What is the point?

At one point, it signaled the pilot to reduce power because the plane was nearing the correct spot, and it was time to reduce power (and retrim the aircraft) to make climbout easier and safer. He would keep climbing up to that point to get the most possible altitude. Nowadays it has less meaning since the pilot is planning his altitude and jump run with GPS assistance. At Perris, for example, the spot, cut and exit point are all determined via GPS.

[skydivingwill 0]

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I always get nervous when I see jumpers with older gear back out of the door to float. Main pin flaps bouncing around in the air, possibly loose BOC spandex. I say the less wind the better on the container at that presentation into the wind. Pro: Cut

Good reason for that person to either not be front float or get new gear. I'd hate to be rear of that person outside the door.


Thanks for replying, one aspect we didn't consider.

 
"It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
-J. K. Rowling
willtofly.com Videos, Pictures & News

[Ron 7]

It reduces ground speed and allows more groups per pass.

It reduces the prop blast and makes it easier to get into position.

There is a max door open speed in most AC. In a Cessna it is very easy to be above it without a cut.

It allows the engine to start to cool slowly (Recip) before the decent. That saves the engine some from shock....Or so I have been told...I only have about 120 hours flight time.

Even planes like Mulins KA have a cut of sorts.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[skydivingwill 0]

I'm not pick on you response but here is my response.

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It reduces ground speed and allows more groups per pass.

Shorten time between groups.
Last guy gets same altitude as first guy.

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It reduces the prop blast and makes it easier to get into position.

If you feel you can tell the difference then maybe.

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There is a max door open speed in most AC. In a Cessna it is very easy to be above it without a cut.

Maybe only good reason to lower air speed.

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Even planes like Mulins KA have a cut of sorts.

Good example of plane that has more prop blast on ground then any other plane in flight.

 
"It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
-J. K. Rowling
willtofly.com Videos, Pictures & News

[JohnMitchell 14]

My question to you is "Are you doing the spotting?"

If not, then you're probably getting a cut but just don't know it. With turbine aircraft, I believe the cut is done with very little reduction in prop rpm, making it less obvious to the jumpers. Chime in anytime, jump pilots.
I still spot quite a few C-182 jumps each year, and call for the cut each time. If you don't call for a cut, you'll probably get one anyway from our pilots.

I'm sure you're in good shape, but put enough wind past that door, and anyone is going to be challenged to climb out, hang, and do a decent exit. A sudden throttle up in power out of a Caravan one day blew my wife into the back door frame on exit, resulting in a lot of nice new bruises. And, yes, she knows how to do a good exit.

A really good reason to get a cut on low tail aircraft? The combination of nose high, tail low, full power, and an aggressive exit has put more than one jumper into the tail, often with fatal results.

[mjosparky 3]

I believe it is a carry over from the days of D-18's and DC-3's. There were no floater handles back in the Jurassic Period of skydiving and when "cut" was called the pilot would reduce the power and pitch to the left engine.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[JohnMitchell 14]

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I believe it is a carry over from the days of D-18's and DC-3's. There were no floater handles back in the Jurassic Period of skydiving and when "cut" was called the pilot would reduce the power and pitch to the left engine.

Sparky

Yep, but remember, you were also giving course corrections and everything else. The pilot was just doing what you told him to do. Now, with GPS, the pilots don't need nothin' from nobody. They know exactly where they are, and when to cut. Ask your Caravan or Otter driver if they reduce thrust before you climb out. I'll bet a buck they do.

Hey, remember shoving the front float out there on DC-3's? Handles, what a concept.

[mjosparky 3]

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Hey, remember shoving the front float out there on DC-3's? Handles, what a concept

I remembere the first time I saw 5 floater out on a DC-3. I thoght they were gods.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mr2mk1g 10]

When the pilot cut's for run in they don't just adjust the speed, but also the trim of the plane. I can name a couple of planes where you'd brain yourself pretty good on the tail if there was no "cut".

Look at pics of the new PAC 750XL for example... in flight the tail is lower than the top of the door and the foot rail under the door for floaters to stand on is slanted down towards the tail at quite a violent angle.

As if by magic however, on jump run the tail is way above the top of the door and that nasty slanted float rail is perfectly level with the ground.

[slotperfect 7]

From billvon's post:

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Nowadays it has less meaning since the pilot is planning his altitude and jump run with GPS assistance. At Perris, for example, the spot, cut and exit point are all determined via GPS.

Ditto at Raeford. In the Otter, the cut happens a few seconds before the green light comes on. By the cut the door should be open with the first group spotting (at least for clouds and traffic), and the green light indicates climout for the first group.

In the Cessna, the pilot handles the cut automatically now (again, GPS).

Arrive Safely

John

[JohnMitchell 14]

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When the pilot cut's for run in they don't just adjust the speed, but also the trim of the plane. I can name a couple of planes where you'd brain yourself pretty good on the tail if there was no "cut".

Very good point you made. A safety point for if you're getting out low from a low tail aircraft. Make sure you get a cut and the nose comes down. Otherwise an aggressive exit can take you into the tail. If in doubt, dive out the door as low as possible, trying not to catch air, liked maybe a tuck. This has hurt and killed people in the past.

[mr2mk1g 10]

and it caused someone to need their cypres on just such an exit last year, out of an otter no less.

[bch7773 0]

Our pilot normally cuts the engine for climbout on our C182. You can definitely tell if the engines cut or not when you are out on the strut.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[Andrewwhyte 1]

If the pilot doesn't cut a King Air, he can't lower the flaps (well he souldn't anyway). As I understand it that is what keeps the tail high.

[FrogNog 1]

I heard people doing serious RW care about it. I know my issues with wind when floating are only my personal fear issues - sometimes lots of wind makes me nervous, sometimes little wind makes me nervous - obviously this is not the plane / pilot's fault.
Personally I don't care what they do as long as it's safe in terms of not hitting the plane.

On older gear issue, I say if it isn't safe to be on the camera step or float with it, it isn't safe to jump.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[Airman1270 0]

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I always get nervous when I see jumpers with older gear back out of the door to float. Main pin flaps bouncing around in the air, possibly loose BOC spandex. I say the less wind the better on the container at that presentation into the wind...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _


Is this really a problem, or is it a fear born of too many campfire discussions about older gear among people who have little experience with this stuff?

I've used a Wonderhog (w/belly band) since 1985 and have done plenty of floating, diving, backloops, and even a few horny gorillas and a sit-fly, without incident. Sure, I love my new gear, but "rig o' death" is still in service and I intend to get the reserve back in date soon. I believe the issue is not the age, but rather how well maintained the equipment is.

Back in the days when everyone was using older stuff, was there a much higher rate of premature container openings involving well-maintained gear?
Frankly, I'm much more afraid of a premature Cypres fire. Rare, yes, but possible.

Meanwhile, I recently took my old Strato Cloud, with about 300-ish jumps, out of retirement and hooked it up. Had to flat-pack the thing, it's so bulky. Better let me go base, and bring your weights!

Cheers,
Jon

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[RogerRamjet 0]

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If the pilot doesn't cut a King Air, he can't lower the flaps (well he souldn't anyway). As I understand it that is what keeps the tail high.

Good point. I would think most aircraft would have a maximum flaps extended speed.

Also, on the older aircraft mentioned above such as DC-3's and Lockheed Loadstars, they had rearward retracting landing gear which also has a maximum extended speed. You would allways want to extend the landing gear on these type aircraft to drop jumpers because of moving the 500lbs of gear 6 feet forward (helps the CG of the aircraft when all the jumpers crowd to the back for exit).

Someone else mentioned serious relative work. Consider that slowing the aircraft allows the last person out on a large load to be that much closer to the base.

-----------------------
Roger "Ramjet" Clark
FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519