Hooknswoop 19 #26 December 13, 2004 QuoteIt could be that it's more common than I realize but I deal with most riggers who work privately and their services have always been 45-50. Not saying you're not right, just saying in the Northeast and now GA the prices have been comparable regardless of a dzo's involvment or not. When I left the DZ I was working at full time, I had a choice, keep my prices the same and pass on the savings, or raise them to the DZ's prices and make more money. I chose to pass on the savings. QuoteI do feel bad for the rigger in this case though. I'm sure this could have been avoided if he was contacted and the issues discussed. Imagine if you did work for me and I wasn't happy or didn't understand why something was done, and instead of calling and talking to you directly I came here and posted something like this. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be too happy about it if you had a valid reason for your actions and would have preferred it if I contact you first if I had any questions, right? Yes, but she didn't say who the rigger was, and I avoid that by a) not doing work unless the customer knows what I'm doing and how much it'll cost, and b) making sure they know what they are paying for when they pick up the rig. I have a rig here (waiting on a new reserve handle that I had the owner order) that needs a new kill line for the main PC. I haven't replaced it yet because I haven't talked to the owner about it yet. People hate surprises that cost them money. As long as they know about it, theya re OK with it. Surprise them with it, regardless if they needed it done, and they are not happy. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usskydiver 0 #27 December 13, 2004 I'm an amateur also (with only 1,000 reserve pack jobs). Rigging is my hobby and not my primary source of income. I do it for friends and by request. PS: I wonder if I am undercharging by charging 75$ to disassemble and rig, wash it, and put it all back together? Tim T. Team Paraclete Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutingstar 1 #28 December 13, 2004 QuoteIf you don't like my prices, Danny Page is an excellent rigger. Mike Gruwell is an outstanding rigger as well and sounds like he's a lot cheaper too. But more importantly, why is everybody on this website always so prepared to go on a smear campaign against their fellows? Trey Hey Trey, Sorry you got publicly attacked...not cool. I think you'll find that Danny or I would have charged about the same for what you did. Obviously, just a big misunderstanding between Lisa and you. As for the smear campaign, welcome to a small bit of my hell. Later, MikeChutingStar.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyberdyber 0 #29 December 13, 2004 New Handle - Lisa did ask for the handle specifically. It wasn't until after it was delivered that she said she already had one. Now you have an extra. It's any rigger's perogative to charge what they want. My time is valuable and I charge for it, not to mention that I have 7 years experience. I happen to think your undercharging at $35. BTW, I often will repack a rig and when the cypres returns from 4 year open the rig, put the cypres in and close it again at no charge so the jumper can still jump meanwhile. Quote 126 fits in an MO How do you know, Lisa? Have you packed one? Mirage is a time consuming rig, harder to make look good then, say, a Javelin. I charged Lisa $50 per repack and $5 for the new loop, which are a pain to make and if they stretch too much or you do it wrong, you have to re-open the rig and adjust it. I charge $285 for 4 year with batteries. That includes shipping to SSK and sales taxes. Also the aforementioned opening and closing for nothing if you like. The handle was $58 after tax. That's $448 total. And BTW, I don't mind rigging when I'm getting paid for it, it's just not my favorite activity, but I dislike it a lot when I'm doing it for peanuts. And someone here has to do it. I'm the only rigger on the DZ. And As I said earlier, Mike Gruwell $40, Danny Page $45, Joe Bennett??, all good riggers, I'll be happy to put anybody in touch with them that doesn't want to use me. I just resent the whole notion put forth by some here that I am or other riggers are ripping people off. I won't have my integrity insulted like that. Just curious though. What if someone asked any of you to do your job for 30% less than what you make now? http://www.skydiveatlanta.com http://www.musiccityskydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouth 0 #30 December 13, 2004 I didn't mention anyone by name. If you read my first post you'll see I asked what was reasonable. I had no idea there was even a new handle in all of it because I didn't ask for one. Oh well, now I have it if needed I guess. As for a new closing loop and all so be it, but it would have been nice to know up front exactly what I was going to be charged for. He is paid in full. No smear mentioned by me. I have stated I won't do it again. Lesson learned. I'll take an ammateur who has the same training as a professional anyday. -- Hot Mama At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #31 December 13, 2004 QuoteI'll put my 'amatuer' $35 reserve pack job up against any 'professional' $55 reserve pack job, any time. I had to laugh when I read that. There is no way if anyone knows Hook that they would think he is an amateur. I'm lucky that I've found a rigger that does an outstanding job. Derek contacted me the first time he packed my reserve. He found a number of items that had slipped by the other rigger I was using. Before Derek did anything, he contacted me. I love my riggerMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larsrulz 0 #32 December 13, 2004 One thing that blows my mind, and the main reason I switched to a vigil, is what did cypres do to the unit? What did they do which cost so much? I would bet the rigger did 100 times as much work as SSK, yet no one questions their pricing and practices? I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #33 December 13, 2004 QuoteWhat did they do which cost so much? I would bet the rigger did 100 times as much work as SSK, yet no one questions their pricing and practices? http://www.cypres.cc/Sites/englisch/Maintenance_for_CYPRES_1.htm SSK does a hell of a lot more work then the rigger does. Hot and cold testing, full load simulation testing over multiple profiles, microscope checking of circuit boards and connections. Then repeat after reassembly. They also do any maintence upgrades for fee during that maintence window like replacing a capasitor or a sampleing sensor.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyberdyber 0 #34 December 13, 2004 Not all riggers are not created equal. Even with the same training. Mostly, you get what you pay for in this world. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, I was not trying to take advantage of you. I thought you just wanted it taken care of. I would have been happy to call and discuss each item with you if I thought it was what you wanted and given you prices beforehand. Although I'm pretty sure I did that, I usually do. Smear campaign was a poor choice of words, rigger bashing would have been more accurate. I was referring to the skydivers general, so many are just more than ready to criticize and speak negatively without the facts. And many state their opinion as fact and denounce other for having an opposing view. Sort of the "I likes a good hangin!" mentality. But thank you to those that are even tempered. I'd like to share some positive stuff. I think we have it really good in this country. I had a customer this weekend that was telling me it is $70 with gear rental to jump in England (that's in dollars not pounds). Regular jump is like $40 and the ride altitude is 40 minutes. She said nobody there would believe her about our 8 minute ride to altitude in the King Air. I'm thankful to be able to fly a great airplane, have a great airport to jump on, and good friends to share it with. Trey http://www.skydiveatlanta.com http://www.musiccityskydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #35 December 13, 2004 QuoteI didn't mention anyone by name. You didn't need to. QuoteI'll take an ammateur who has the same training as a professional anyday. How are you going to qualify it? Training is only 1/2 the answer. Experience counts alot too. Everyday I hear jumpers complain about riggers, and their costs. Many of them can hardly pack their main, and take very little interest in the gear that will be saving their lives. My answer is much like my response to those that choose to bitch about the goverment but don't vote.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fjd 0 #36 December 13, 2004 QuoteI didn't mention anyone by name. If you read my first post you'll see I asked what was reasonable. I had no idea there was even a new handle in all of it because I didn't ask for one. Oh well, now I have it if needed I guess. As for a new closing loop and all so be it, but it would have been nice to know up front exactly what I was going to be charged for. He is paid in full. No smear mentioned by me. I have stated I won't do it again. Lesson learned. I'll take an ammateur who has the same training as a professional anyday. i'm trying to picture as to how the payment was made. i'm guessing most likely the payment was made when the rig was picked up? or maybe you sent in the payment afterwards. in any case, wouldn't you ask for an itemized invoice of some sort, especially if the amount due was much higher than expected? i'm sure you had no intention of "smearing" anyone, but you have to realize that this 'bulletin board' is a powerful medium. for many at your home DZ reading these posts, it doesn't take much to figure out who the rigger in question is. and IMHO the thread certainly had negative connotation for the rigger in question. i think the mis-understanding could have been easily avoided if your rigger had provided an itemized invoice to begin with (mine always does), or if you had asked for it yourself before making the payment. just my two cents. =============== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #37 December 13, 2004 QuoteEveryday I hear jumpers complain about riggers, and their costs. Many of them can hardly pack their main, and take very little interest in the gear Thats when you tell them that in addition to the inspect and repack, you adjusted their Johnson Rod and tuned their Flux Capacitor at no charge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #38 December 13, 2004 QuoteI've travelled all over the country and until your post I've never seen anyone offer a repack for $35. My experiences have shown that anywhere from 45-55 is the norm. "Professional" or not. Blues, Ian I have never paid more than $35 for a reserve repack in the state of North Carolina. They might charge more up in north Raleigh, but there are about fifty riggers here in Fayetteville that will pack anything you like for $35. Over half of them are master riggers. I was fascinated that they were getting like $75 at Perris for a standard repack. Likewise, I am sure my dad still charges $35 down at his place in Opelika. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouth 0 #39 December 13, 2004 If you look at the amateur rigger definition given by you guys it is someone who does rigging on the side. That said I'll take shipping it to a "amateur" master rigger next time. My choice. Thank you all for your opinions. I really just wanted to know what was reasonable and customary. Geez -- Hot Mama At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #40 December 13, 2004 QuoteThank you all for your opinions. I really just wanted to know what was reasonable and customary. Geez Hrm, well me thinks it's reasonable and customary for the customer to be happy with the work. That being said, you can ship your rig to me (an amateur) any time. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #41 December 13, 2004 Quote New Handle - Lisa did ask for the handle specifically. It wasn't until after it was delivered that she said she already had one. Now you have an extra. I think that is the root of the issue, a mis-understanding. QuoteIt's any rigger's perogative to charge what they want. Absolutely. QuoteMy time is valuable and I charge for it, not to mention that I have 7 years experience. My time is valuable too, not to mention I have 8 years experience. QuoteBTW, I often will repack a rig and when the cypres returns from 4 year open the rig, put the cypres in and close it again at no charge so the jumper can still jump meanwhile. That is very nice of you, I do the same thing and do it if the batteries quit between re-packs too. QuoteHow do you know, Lisa? Have you packed one? I've packed them and a 126 fits great. Mirage recommends a 126 for the M0. I like packing Mirages, easy to get the canopy into the bag and the spring isn't 8-feet long so it easy to control. QuoteI charged Lisa $50 per repack and $5 for the new loop, which are a pain to make and if they stretch too much or you do it wrong, you have to re-open the rig and adjust it. You may charge whatever you wish. You really should replace the closing loop at every re-pack though. I'll sit and watch TV and make a ton of reserve closing loops, one for every washer I have. Home Depot sells some very cool clear plastic containers that work great for loops. All I have to do it pre-stretch it, mark it, slider the washer up and tie the kots and it's ready to go, no slipping. I keep a list of container sizes and reserve sizes and the closing loop length that works for that combo. I haven't had to open a rig to replace w/ a different length loop in a long time. The manual says they shouldn't stretch more than 3 mm. I find that the knot moving or the pack job settling accounts for the reserve closing loop loosening more than anything else. QuoteAnd BTW, I don't mind rigging when I'm getting paid for it, it's just not my favorite activity, but I dislike it a lot when I'm doing it for peanuts. And someone here has to do it. I'm the only rigger on the DZ. And As I said earlier, Mike Gruwell $40, Danny Page $45, Joe Bennett??, all good riggers, I'll be happy to put anybody in touch with them that doesn't want to use me. I just resent the whole notion put forth by some here that I am or other riggers are ripping people off. I won't have my integrity insulted like that. Chaulk this one up to a mis-understanding. Maybe it was another customer that wanted the cutaway handle. Like I said, people do not like surprises when they cost them money. Now surprises that include diamonds will get you a much different result QuoteJust curious though. What if someone asked any of you to do your job for 30% less than what you make now? $24.50 for a reserve pack job? I've done them cheaper for people that are really short of money. If it means if they pay me $35, the can't jump and if they pay me $15 +/-, they can, I'll give'em a break. Would I do that all the time? Probably not. I figure I'm already offering a good service at a great price. I recently offered to assemble a Vector III Cypres and PD-R for a friend for $50, 41% off my normal fee. That includes the hassle of going to the UPS store and shipping it back. I'm sorry this all happened. I don't think it was Lisa's intention to try and give you a bad name and I don't think she has. I understand you desire to defend yourself. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pyke 0 #42 December 15, 2004 I'd have to agree. Until recently - I thought $35-40 was 'norm'. why would busier dz's charge more?? wouldn't volume make up for the difference? Most business models would support this, but then again...that's why we have different places to shop to. I'll go to a Wal-mart for undershirts for work instead of Nordstrom's because I don't see a difference (often for the same brand). Others prefer to go with Nordie's. What is the difference? I respect what my rigger does (and all riggers for that matter)...and certainly because he is the ONLY one with the power to give me that 'peace of mind' I should have when jumping. I'm happy to pay him for his services, as I believe the investment for the skill he has is worth it. I wouldn't so much complain about the price even being higher (by as much as $5) in a different part of the country due to cost of living...but I would never pay ~$70 for a repack. That's damn near criminal-even in CA!! Perhaps, riggers should have a method of charging on a scaled basis. Guess it's not really feasible, but something like: $35-45 for a repack and inspection of reserve, and a once over of the entire container (main optional) $45-55 for a repack and FULL inspection of the container, reserve, & main $55-65 for a complete "lube" - repack, FULL inspection of entire unit & a container wash. Seems reasonable to me...but then again...not a rigger! Open to thought sharing...closed for smearing!! p.s. about to get my 4-year as well - so good to know!! Thanks Lisa for the heads up! Kahurangi e Mahearangi, Kiwi, RB #926, AFF-I, FAA Snr. Rigger, RN/BSN/Paramedic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #43 December 15, 2004 Quote$35-45 for a repack and inspection of reserve, and a once over of the entire container (main optional) $45-55 for a repack and FULL inspection of the container, reserve, & main $55-65 for a complete "lube" - repack, FULL inspection of entire unit & a container wash. That is what I charge, $35 for a re-pack/container/reserve inspection, $10 for a main inspection, and $20 for a container wash (taking the rig apart and re-assembling it is time-consuming, especially if the reserve has Rapide links. People pay lots of money for someone to slam together their main without batting an eye. 7 main pack jobs @ $5 per is equal in cost to a reserve pack job......... Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #44 December 15, 2004 Quote People pay lots of money for someone to slam together their main without batting an eye. 7 main pack jobs @ $5 per is equal in cost to a reserve pack job......... Or 5 pack jobs @ $7 per. Comparing North Carolina rigging pricing to that in Atlanta, or California is like Comparing North Carolina house pricing to that in Atlanta or California Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usskydiver 0 #45 December 15, 2004 I have never paid more than $35 for a reserve repack in the state of North Carolina. They might charge more up in north Raleigh, but there are about fifty riggers here in Fayetteville that will pack anything you like for $35. Over half of them are master riggers. I was fascinated that they were getting like $75 at Perris for a standard repack. Likewise, I am sure my dad still charges $35 down at his place in Opelika. Chuck --- And sometimes it's pizza and beer....by the way, where's my pizza and beer Biotch?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pyke 0 #46 December 16, 2004 DOH!!!.... busted Chuck! Guess now it's 2 pizzas, one for tim-other for Michelle, and a case!!! Hit the up for interest, TIM!!!!! Kahurangi e Mahearangi, Kiwi, RB #926, AFF-I, FAA Snr. Rigger, RN/BSN/Paramedic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usskydiver 0 #47 December 16, 2004 I should...but he knows he owes me (like in prison) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pyke 0 #48 December 17, 2004 Dammit...where's my edit key??? sorry Tim! Kahurangi e Mahearangi, Kiwi, RB #926, AFF-I, FAA Snr. Rigger, RN/BSN/Paramedic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kbone 0 #49 December 20, 2004 QuoteI was fascinated that they were getting like $75 at Perris for a standard repack. Likewise, I am sure my dad still charges $35 down at his place in Opelika. I heard the riggers at Perris only get about $25 - $30 of that $70 fee for repacks. The Adventure Sports Loft pockets the rest. It is hard to say if the DZ is charging them an arm & leg for the real estate. I imagine it's not cheap to run a business out of there. So in the end, that rigger at Perris is actually getting paid less to repack your shit, than if you were to pay $35 to an independant rigger. If you ask around, there are plenty of independant riggers at Perris that will do it for less. In the loft's defense, there is a convienince factor with Adventure Sports Loft. They seem to have their shit together enough that I don't worry if my shit is packed right. Even though they don't seem like the happiest bunch! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #50 December 20, 2004 QuoteI heard the riggers at Perris only get about $25 - $30 of that $70 fee for repacks. The Adventure Sports Loft pockets the rest. How did we get from "I heard" to: QuoteSo in the end, that rigger at Perris is actually getting paid less to repack your shit, than if you were to pay $35 to an independant rigger. "rigger at Perris is actually getting paid less" I have heard that the riggers at Adventure Loft get the full $75 and the drop zone kicks in another 10. I heard but I don't think so. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
