0
AggieDave

Open container in the plane, what would you do?

Recommended Posts

An interesting discussion has started in Incidents about this very subject, since that discussion belongs in this forum, I thought I would start it.

What would you do if someone had one of the following:

A pilot chute out
container open
reserve PC out
d-bag out
freebag out

or any other variation?

Now, what if it was a student?
What if the door was already open?
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've kicked a very low number jumper off a load for dislodging his main pin as he boarded. No one on board had a pullup cord.


But assuming we are at altitude:

Pilot cute out: Yell "pilot chute", grab it, keep it away from the door, repack it, skydive.

Container open: If I have a pullup cord, tell the pilot, make sure whoever is by the door knows to keep it shut, and reclose the container. No pullup cord - jumper sits back to wall and rides the plane down (pilot can close the door of our Cessna).

Reserve PC out - everyone lands with the plane.

d-bag out - If I have a pullup cord, reclose the container. It should be obvious how to get it back in without a step through.

freebag out - everyone lands with the plane.

If the door is already open, contain whatever you can contain and get the jumper out if necessary.

----------------------------------
www.jumpelvis.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A very experienced JM had this happen this summer at our DZ. A girl who was to be last out had her main pin come out. The JM had the pilot keep the door closed, told the girl to lay flat on her stomach and used his shoelace as a pull-up to close the container. The girl then had an uneventful jump. We now keep a pull-up chord in the plane, just in case... This definitely shouldn't be done by everyone - the JM is extremely experienced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does no one else keep a pull up in their rig under their main webbing? Everyone I know does.

Anyway girl at our DZ had pin pop upon main pin check and D-bg fell onto floor unstowing some lines. It is a Sky Van DZ so she stayed up front with the pilot and landed with the plane. All others exited.

Hard to be generalistic as depends on plane. use common sense in each situation you are in...

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
With a C-206, If the door is closed and my container opens, my practice has been to pack it then jump. Or if the plane does not have a door and the pc is secure I have still packed and jumped. If it is a reserve open or an un experienced jumper then the procedure has been for the plane to land with all jumpers. Regardless, the door is never opened if there is an open parachute in the aircraft.

I was in a C-207 without a door once when a belly reserve opened. Even without a pilot chute the reserve made straight for the door. Luckily the apex
lines (at the top of the canopy) caught on the door hinge and the jump master was quick to lie on top of the lines. the canopy was outside the aircraft. The pilot then made a very quick decent and landed on a road.

I have not jumped since 1996 so things are probably very different now. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I always keep a pull-up cord in my suit as well as my container. Just in case of off-DZ landings (while you wait for a pick-up get ready to make the next load), or open container in the plane.
______________________________________________
- Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes -

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Does no one else keep a pull up in their rig under their main webbing? Everyone I know does.

Quote



This was a first jump student load (IAD), and the instructor didn't have his jumpsuit on since it was July and hot out. He had his second CRW rig on, which didn't have a pull-up. I have one in my jumpsuit pocket, and most people I know have one on them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not sure I agree with closing an open container in the plane, seems to me it would be safer to let them ride back down and have the container re-closed and fix the reason it came open in the first place.

I have had to deal with a spring loaded pilot chute coming out as a student turned to the door for climb out, he scubbed the pin out on the pilots seat (c-182). The pilot and I seized the pilot chute and pulled the student back in the plane, closed the door and landed. No problem, other than I had to clean out my shorts. If the pilot chute had made it out the door, I would have tried to push that student as far from the plane as possible. Sorry pal!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As with most "what if" questions there as always many varibles....ie: what plane,altitude,full load,position in the plane etc.etc....

A PC out on a IAD student before the door is open would not usually be a huge problem if he/she is the next out...as the instructor will be looking to handle the PC anyways...whereas a IAD student second to leave with a PC out could become a emergency.

Excellent thread to start AggieDave...hopefully this can be discussed rationally and with minimal chest thumping...with everyone stating the theoretical situation and there action to remedy it.

I hope to learn something without having to read too many personal attacks.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Depends on the aircraft and the problem.

Initally close the door when the problem is discovered (of course.)

Fixable problem in a large aircraft - up to the jumper. He/she can choose to fix it (with help) or land with the plane. If he chooses to land with the plane, secure the rig (in the cockpit or something) and jump.

Small plane - judgement call. If they can be put in the back with their backs against the wall controlling their equipment, then it's probably OK to go. If moving into that position would make things worse, or it is too tight to do so, then the door stays closed and they land with the plane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If the container was open, I'd try to close it, if the pilot chute came out I'd stuff it back in (lest it be spring loaded)... but, again, doesn't a lot of this come back to prevention? I know a lot of people say they check their gear before they put it on, but come on, I work on a packing mat, I see how many people don't...and doesn't it also come back to teaching students about protecting their gear in the plane? I know that accidents happen, but gear checks help prevent them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

What would you do if someone had one of the following:

A pilot chute out
container open
reserve PC out
d-bag out
freebag out

or any other variation?

Now, what if it was a student?
What if the door was already open?



Pilot chute out, this should be a a check done when getting up........repack it and get a pin check.

Container open.....close it. Have the pilot go around if you need an extra minute.

Reserve PC out.....door stays shut and everyone rides down, no questions asked!

d-bag out.....put it back in the container and close it, smae as above. If the jumper is unsure, ride the plane down, but still close the container before openning the door.

freebag out......again no question...everyone rides down.

Loose nylon in a plane is very dangerous, trust me, I have seen a pilot chute sneak out of the crack of a closed cessna door (catch me when I am drinking and I will tell you the story). Don't take it lightly, extreme caution, don't learn the hard way, listen to those of us who have been stupid in the past and were lucky enough the man upstairs wasn't ready for us!
blue skies,

art

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have be jumping almost 30 years and have seen this happen just 2 times. If this is a regular thing for you or at you home DZ, you need to find the root cause and make some changes.
In any case it should be delt with very conservatively, your PC and endanger the entire plane.
Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just wanted to ask,(yes, I am new. And dont have any jumps as of yet, just thought it would be good to read up on safety before I go for my first)


What is:
1) reserve PC out
2) d-bag out
3) freebag out


I dont fully understand the terms as of yet


Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was once in a Skyvan that decended so fast that cypresses fired, this was on a pre-demo flybye. So, we had open, reserve containers. The wind flap on the skyvan was immediately closed, and the rigs were taken off, and secured. It was quite surprising to me how loud a cypress and a reserve fire is. Overall it was quite an expensive load.


Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I am new. And dont have any jumps as of yet, just thought it would be good to read up on safety before I go for my first)



You're going to overload yourself on info! Wait for the first jump course and listen to your instructors, they will tell you everything you need to know. Not only that, but there are very few singularly right things in this sport, they may teach differently then you learn here.

Go to a DZ and learn, good luck and keep us informed of how its going.B|
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I sat in a FJC this weekend (S/L). Our students are taught that if any part of the canopy or pilot chute comes out, jump on it; smother it; tell the instructor and get ready to land with the plane. No one is getting out.
The story in incidents scared me... I'd rather land with the plane than risk someone being pulled through the tail and killing us all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I sat in a FJC this weekend (S/L). Our students are taught that if any part of the canopy or pilot chute comes out, jump on it; smother it; tell the instructor and get ready to land with the plane. No one is getting out.
The story in incidents scared me... I'd rather land with the plane than risk someone being pulled through the tail and killing us all.



I'm not a pilot, but as a jumper that doesn't want to see the plane or pilot get hurt, this seems like the smartest and safest way to go.
_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dave, thank you for starting this thread, this is a great demonstration of this forum's intent. Since Safety Day is upon us; this is a good subject for review at the DZ this Saturday.

Ask yourself what would you do if:

DOOR CLOSED

1. If main, small A/C, and little experience...
Then;
2. If main, small A/C, and experienced...
Then;
3. If main, large A/C, and little experience...
Then;
4. If main, large A/C, and experienced...
Then;
5. If reserve, small A/C,
Then;
6. If reserve, large A/C,
Then;

DOOR OPEN

1. If main, small A/C, little experience and
a. pilot chute or material inside...
b. Then;
c. Pilot chute or material leaves
d. Then;
2. If main, small A/C, experienced and
a. Pilot chute or material inside…
b. Then;
c. Pilot chute or material leaves
d. Then;
3. If main, large A/C, little experience and
a. Pilot chute or material inside…
b. Then;
c. Pilot chute or material leaves
d. Then;
4. If main, large A/C, experienced and
a. Pilot chute or material inside…
b. Then;
c. Pilot chute or material leaves
d. Then;
5. If reserve, small A/C,
a. Pilot chute or material inside…
b. Then;
c. Pilot chute or material leaves
d. Then;
6. If reserve, large A/C,
a. Pilot chute or material inside…
b. Then;
c. Pilot chute or material leaves
d. Then;

My suggestion is not to necessarily respond to the thread, but to suggest that one might copy/paste into a separate document for consideration and discussion of what "you" might do in these situations. There are other variables to consider; like is the skydiver a student under the guidance of an Instructor, is the Instructor aware of the situation, etc.

As Derek often says: "Think."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account. It's free!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
0