fields 0 #1 December 20, 2004 Did you jump your own completely unsupervised pack jobs, before you were signed off for your A? Just wondering. And when you did your "gear check another person", how thorough was it? Did they make a pilot chute in tow, mess with the 3-rings, hide the cutaway pad under the webbing, break seal, turn off cypres, misroute chest strap, push the hacky all the way into the BOC,....? Did you do 3-ring maintenance, or just witness it to get signed off?"And the sky is blue and righteous in every direction" Survivor Chuck Palahniuk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #2 December 20, 2004 QuoteDid you jump your own completely unsupervised pack jobs, before you were signed off for your A? Just wondering. I jumped my own rig, no AAD, no RSL on my 13th jump. I was packing for myself before jump 5."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #3 December 20, 2004 QuoteDid you jump your own completely unsupervised pack jobs, before you were signed off for your A? Just wondering. My experience went like this: 1) Went to "packing class" taught by a rigger. Did a single pack job no one with a brain should jump. I was very ill prepared to pack my own rig. But I knew the concepts. We opened the pack job on the ground and it was decided it was packed correctly. 2) A weekend after, I asked the packers if I could “practice” on a rig. A friend saw me struggle and took 2 hours to teach me one on one. We talked about each step and did each more than once. 3) I pulled apart the rig we just packed together, and packed it again unsupervised (well, the riggers and my friend glanced from a distance). Without digging into the d-bag, my friend inspected the bridal and other things. I jumped it - and it worked. Got my A requirement signed off... Weekend over… 4) I showed up to the DZ the last weekend and jumped a rental rig... Came back to the packing hangar and saw a line. Normally rental gear has to be packed by the packers at my DZ unless you are working to get the proficiency card signed, but I asked if I could “practice”. So I packed it... Then Jumped. Then Packed. Then Jumped. No one was supervising, some people walked by and gave a pointer, but I was able to “fine tune” a lot of the parts I struggled with the first time around. Except for the fact I was paying thru the nose for the rental (which included a packing fee) - I felt like a real jumper. And, it was nice to watch the “pros” pack next to me and see their advanced techniques, and ask them a ton of questions. For me - six unsupvervised pack jobs (one not jumped due to weather) before my A, and I am not done yet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timbarrett 0 #4 December 20, 2004 I did a series of supervised pack jobs during a "packing class" over about 5 hours one evening...when i got fed up with doing it and asked the packer if it looked alright he replied "if you promise to jump it first thing tomorrow i will sign your A licence card"..pause for thought while I tried to discount for the possibility that after 5 hours I would be willing to jump anything just to stop..then I said OK and did a hop and pop at 5,000 as i did not want to think about it in freefall.... I like the idea that in this sport you have no excuses and no way to dodge responsibility for what you do...."Work hard, play hard and don't whinge" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
white_falcon 0 #5 December 20, 2004 I have packed my own rig 3 times, all were supervised tho, (stood back and watched) and when I got thru I was asked, are you gonna jump that??? 2 of them I did, one my wife did, and we are both still here. As for unsupervised, I am sure i COULD, just haven't yet gotten the nerve yet As for the Gear check, my opinion is, you do NOT buil in a mal on a rig you or someone else is going to check. The way to accomplish this SAFELY is to have a rigger / instructor stand with you while you go thru it. They ask you questions as to WHAT and WHY and WHAT IF but again DO NOT build in a MAL. If the person who built the mal (s) forgets one, AND it gets missed, the consequences could be fatal. Thats a newbies take on it anyway. Scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fields 0 #6 December 20, 2004 If a rigger offered you that test (on his rig), wouldn't you want to know you could pass it? Wouldn't you want to know you can recognize the problems, find them all, and know you can do a proper gear check for someone? Can you recognize if a closing loop is too loose (main or reserve)? Would you catch that the rigs pervious user had disconnected the RSL and attached it to the hard housing?"And the sky is blue and righteous in every direction" Survivor Chuck Palahniuk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surf4life11 0 #7 December 20, 2004 My experience with this was: 1)Had to do 10 signed off pack jobs before I was allowed to pack my own if I had my own gear. 2)gear checks were part of my learning process. Everytime I went up with my instructor I was required to do a gear check on my own gear and then check the instructors gear. They would routinely mess something up and ask me to check to see if something was wrong. 3)3 ring maintenance was part of everything, I was required to disassemble and reassemble the 3 ring release on numerous ocassions. It was a thorough teaching curriculum and I hated it at the time but now understand why they did it that way and appreciate it all the time. Blues! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #8 December 20, 2004 QuoteI have packed my own rig 3 times, all were supervised tho, (stood back and watched) and when I got thru I was asked, are you gonna jump that??? 2 of them I did, one my wife did, and we are both still here. As for unsupervised, I am sure i COULD, just haven't yet gotten the nerve yet As for the Gear check, my opinion is, you do NOT buil in a mal on a rig you or someone else is going to check. The way to accomplish this SAFELY is to have a rigger / instructor stand with you while you go thru it. They ask you questions as to WHAT and WHY and WHAT IF but again DO NOT build in a MAL. If the person who built the mal (s) forgets one, AND it gets missed, the consequences could be fatal. Thats a newbies take on it anyway. Scott While I agree that the consequences of forgetting to fix it are quite bad, I think its a safe practice as long as the person doing the test takes care in making sure it is all corrected before allowing the rig to be placed anywhere someone might use it. (I.e. Left unattended.) For example, in the coaches course I took one of the instructors took a rig, and put it on with 11 problems. It made for a real good teaching tool. They then made sure everything got put back to how it is supposed to be as it was gone over with the class.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jskydiver22 0 #9 December 20, 2004 Yeah, i packed for myself the day of my first jump. Actually, i can only recall maybe 3 times in the past 250 jumps that i didn't pack for myself. When i gear checked another person, i checked the 3 handles, 3 straps, cypress, and the main and reserve pins. No one ever really messed anything up, i always gave my mom gear checks when i was 13 and couldn't jump. I did the 3 ring maintenance, My step dad is a rigger so i was showed how everything on the rig works before i could jump. I think its better to actually do it rather than just watching, i learned a lot more about hooking up rigs after I actually did it instead of just watching. --I don't even know enough to know that I dont know-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #10 December 20, 2004 1. Packing class 2. One with supervised 3. then one unsupervised.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #11 December 20, 2004 Why is the question about *2* *unsupervised* pack jobs? Requirement is "pack a main parachute without assistance." It doesn't even appear to require jumping it, though my DZ (and most, it seems) does before signing off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmyers8568 0 #12 December 20, 2004 I was shown once how to pack my chute. The second time they watched as I did it. I have been packing my own chute ever since. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fields 0 #13 December 21, 2004 sorry- probably my mistake. That may be a particular dz policy- not an A-license requirement. Or it might be one version of the yellow sign-off card that I've seen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #14 December 21, 2004 Quotesorry- probably my mistake. That may be a particular dz policy- not an A-license requirement. Or it might be one version of the yellow sign-off card that I've seen. On the long yellow ISP, Cat F has "pack w/ assistance" and Cat G has "pack w/o assistance." The short form yellow card just has "pack w/o assistance." The long form doubles up on a lot of elements (e.g. has a 5500ft h&p in addition to the required 3500ft one for the A). Note supervision is still fine. I don't think the requirement was for you to go alone in the shed and come out with a packed container. Many of you see any problems with these first pack job jumps? One in my group of 4 cutaway a presumed lineover, though it's quite possible it was only a deployed toggle. Mine was a fraction of a second delayed from what I felt was normal, but otherwise uneventful on a very high (AFF like) pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #15 December 21, 2004 I jumped few unsupervised pack jobs of mine before getting my "A". As for the gear check: my instructor purposelly mis-routed his chest strap. After I pointed it out to him, he told me he was shitting bricks, as he was afraid I wouldn't spot it and he would forget about it and jump it... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #16 December 21, 2004 my DZO allowed me to take a student rig home to practice with....I pro-packed that sucker 25 times under the supervision and training of my roommate who is a big-number jumper. I then went to my instructor and packed 5 more times for him, 2 under direct supervision and 3 with him eyeballing from a distance. He passed me on packing but I then went to another instructor and had him watch me start-to-finish...he also approved the job.... I jumped my first pack on Jump 15 and was scared shitless.....no freaking hop-n-pop...took full altitude (pilot didn't give me extra when I flashed him ) and pulled high...very high....8K high.....it WORKED! much to my relief......been packing my own and have only had one case of a good opening pop where I didn't pull the slider out quite enough. I LOVE my Triathlon!My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randy_H 0 #17 December 21, 2004 After taking the 4 hour packing class. I did one pack job with minimal assistance. Basically, a rigger stood over me and after every step asked me if I was sure of what I had done. It was kind of un-nerving because he asked this after EVERY step, even though they were done correctly, it still had me second guessing myself. I then had to do another pack job with no assistance before they would sign off on it. Right before I finished AFF there were two guys who were over from Germany that had just finished AFF and were trying to get their A license signed off in a week. They both were doing a hop and pop on their own first pack jobs. We had a good about this in the skyvan and I told them they were either or very confident in their work. Well.... one went out clean, no problems. The second one however ended up with a pilot chute in tow and had to cutaway. I learned an important lesson about making sure that my pilot chute is cocked before I even started packing. When I jumped my first pack job, I pulled at 5500' just to be sure that I had plenty of time to react to any malfunction which my medicore pack job might create. Everything went smooth. I still prefer to pay the packers for now since it takes me 30-40 minutes to pack, then I start worrying about if I had created any lineovers while tucking the sides, so I end up doing it again. I now use bad weather days at the DZ to work on improving my pack jobs.010010010110010101100001011101000111000001110101011100110111001101111001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 37 #18 December 21, 2004 Quote.....one however ended up with a pilot chute in tow and had to cutaway. I learned an important lesson about making sure that my pilot chute is cocked before I even started packing... One of those instances that reminds us all to get proper pin checks before we get in the plane. Mistakes can happen to anyone, but this one should have been caught by a proper pin check."Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
