Next AFF jump question

[dan_iv 0]

Hey all, being new here and reading TONS of threads I wanted to post a quick question that I couldn't find a thread on. I'm doing my AFF level 5 jump tomorrow morning and have passed each level thus far but in my log book and comments from my instructers my main 'problem' or "area of oppurtunity" is my leg / knee position. Basically each jump i have been told that my legs are too wide and I am not extending my lower legs enough. I know I need to focus on these two things for this jump as it is completely solo and I was hoping someone could give me some advice as to how to be more aware of my leg position during freefall? Thanks in advance!

Dan

[Pawel 0]

I had to touch my toes together in free fall it will give you Idea of where your legs are.

[dan_iv 0]

i've been told you can do that to help, but so far every jump i'm too focused on passing the requirement to remember to do toe taps, maybe I should just practice doing them in my mind every time i check my alt between turns for this level... thanks for reminding me about that!

[Dougiefresh 0]

I had the same problem. The advice my instructor gave me was to roll up the leg cuffs of my jumpsuit. That way you can feel the air and how it's hitting your legs. If your legs are bent too far, you'll feel pressure on your knees instead of air rushing around your ankles. It's just one more piece of information that you can use to get your body position right.

Good luck, and have fun!

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams

[JeffSkydiver 0]

While suiting up and the during the ride up in the plane, I say to myself, "legs, legs, legs, legs, legs, legs..... ."

In freefall, I hear myself saying, "legs, legs, legs, ... ."

jt

*

Let's all do this safe enough that we can still do this in our 90's.

[themitchyone 0]

I remember saying to myself as I left the plane, "arch, straighten legs."

"If the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to girl's sports such as hot oil wrestling and foxy boxing." - Homer Simpson

[AMax 0]

Disclaimer: I am not an AFF instructor, so this is my personal opinion that needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Leg awareness is one of the last things people usually learn. You will probably be working on improvement of position of your legs after 50 or 100 jumps. At this point, the most important thing for you is symmetry. Toe taps is a good trick that helps to achieve this symmetry. The rest should not be a big problem as long as you do not spin or loose control because of you leg position. Brining the legs out and feeling the pressure on your lower legs will come with time. If your lower legs are brought in too much, it may cause some backsliding, but I seriously doubt that this will keep you from passing the next level. And finally how wide is too wide? John Eagle, one of the best formation skydivers on this planet flies with his knees pretty wide

Edit to add:

I would keep focusing on being safe and passing the next levels. You will have plenty of time to work on smaller problems after you graduate. You do not really want to loose the altitude awareness or ignore the signals from your instructors just because you have been thinking about your legs too much.
But once again, your AFFI is a best source of information ignore what I said if it goes against your instructors advice.

Good luck!

[AggieDave 6]

Primarily: Do NOT take anything you read hear as gospel until you talk it over with your instructors. No matter how many jumps the person on DZ.com has, talk to your instructors first!

Secondly: Relax. Ask your instructors to do some leg awareness drills and body position drills on the ground before going up on your next jump (if they feel it is necissary).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[BIGUN 1,050]

Most common signals given to students are feet out and arch. That's a real hard one to give verbal advice for. It's not that folks don't want to help as probably 90% of folks suffered from having their feet too far up their butts.

In this case what Aggie says is true. This particular problem is best solved in working with your intructors.

edited to fix: to to too, I really hate that one for some reason.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[sundevil777 93]

On the subject of legs too far apart, if you look at pics of the best in the world, you will find their legs pretty far apart. If you have your knees too close together, you lose some stability in the roll axis. Most guys can only get their legs about 90 deg apart, so unless you are super flexible or are really straining to spread them, it really should not be a problem.

Paying for a video might be productive.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[NWFlyer 2]

I have the same issue, and my instructors will mention it, but they don't fail me for it. Video helped me - I wasn't even aware of it till I saw myself on film!

But, what one of my instructors said to me was "You're flying stable like that, so I don't want to try to make corrections too aggressively and cause another problem, so we'll work on it slowly." In other words, be aware and try to correct it, but for now, it's a body position that works okay and allows me to be stable. Might not be pretty but it works.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Travman 6]

I'd jump on a creeper and go into your freefall position. Then have your AFF instructor put your legs in the right position, try to remember the position and jump off and on the creeper a few times until it becomes natural, maybe do it again in a few hours see if you get your legs in the right spot.
However your legs may be fine on the creeper, but not in freefall - it is a different enviroment.
But as other people have said, this is just an opinion and your instructors are who you should really listen to.

[riggerrob 558]

Quote

On the subject of legs too far apart, if you look at pics of the best in the world, you will find their legs pretty far apart. If you have your knees too close together, you lose some stability in the roll axis.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Yes, but they are also the most flexible.
They are so flexible, they can still arch - through their hips - even with their knees really wide. That is a rare skill, requiring above-average flexibility.

Unfortunately the rest of us are not half as flexible.
Many guys simply cannot arch - through their hips - when their knees are too wide.
When most of us get our knees too wide, we start de-arching - at the hops - backside, roll over and do a variety of other exciting manuvers, none of which are conducive to passing AFF

In conclusion, ask your local instructors to include a few leg awareness exercises (maybe toe taps) in your next skydive.

• Quote

[sd-slider 0]

I hear ya!

I get the same signals. I agree with the later response that "leg awareness will come with more jumps". I found that I am so focused on the jump at hand that on exit, I don't remember a damn thing but the dive flow. I was fortunate enough to progress form AFF 1-5 with no repeats.
I had my AFF 6 jump a couple weeks ago and was sweatin' the exit hard. It was all I could think about. Come to find out, I nailed the exit, a little more legs and arch to stabilize 3-4 seconds out. My problem was getting ahead of myself on the backloop(s). After a clean exit and clean turn to face my instructor, an altitude check sent me into a 4-5 rotation fast turn. I came out of it, faced the instructor, nailed a great backloop, then spun, rolled, twisted on my next COA. As you can see I still need to work on legs as well.
Student to student, listen, learn, and adapt during the flow. Based on AFF progression, we still don't know what our bodies can do. As hard as it is to do, I just keep reminding myself, you did it the jump before, so you can do it this time!
Good Luck, Blue Skies! =slider

Anvil Brother #69

Sidelined with a 5mm C5-C6 herniated disk...
Back2Back slammers and 40yr old fat guys don't mix!

[dippymoo 0]

Practice at home to get muscle memory, lie on the floor near a wall, push you feet/toes against the wall while arching, this helps you get the feel of how much pressure you need in your toes (more than you think) to stop your legs flailing around. Have your instructor show you what i mean (they should know) as this is something you can practice alone which is much cheaper than freefall! just my 2 cents!

[dan_iv 0]

I just wanted to say thanks everyone for your advice and comments! I did my AFF -5 jump (360 degree turns) on Saturday and all went well. I still got the two signals that I consistantly get legs out and knees shoulder with apart during the jump but was able to complete 4 360's the first 3 were pretty slow, then my instructor pointed to herself and did a 360 that was REALLY fast and after watching her do it I pulled a really fast one too. During my de-brief she explained that because my legs were too far apart it was slowing my turns down, but on my last turn i had good leg position and was able to whip it pretty good.

Thanks again!

[Avion 0]

Here's my two cents. When I first started I had the same problem. I was generally tense. As I relaxed in the air, I became more aware of feeling the air on the parts of my body. My instructors were constantly giving me the legs out sign, and for quit a while it just eluded me.

To make the story short, when I got a more used to being in the air, and relaxed, I could feel the air on front part of my lower leg when it was right.

I humble suggest, if you can, get a 10 minute block in a tunnel, and have the instructor do up and down drills with you. That will get you used to extending your lower legs.

Cheers