What can we do about the USPA.....

[diablopilot 2]

taking care of it's members, and staying out of business it has no place being involved in?


Stop the Group Membership program. The USPA (and the dues I pay to it) are for the individual members benifit, NOT DZ's!!! DZ can hold their own.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[bodypilot1 0]

What got your goat Bro?






Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[diablopilot 2]

The USPA needs to focus on it's members, not the DZ's.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[bodypilot1 0]

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The USPA needs to focus on it's members, not the DZ's.

You said that in your 1st post.

What are the details of your bitch with them?....




Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[diablopilot 2]

It has been reported that the USPA is becoming involved with the "SkyRide Issue".

That would be an abuse of the members dues. I would say it would warrent a replacement of those elected persons prompting the involvement by the next election.

In what way has Skyride hurt an individual jumper? Before someone throws out photographic or intenet media theft, let me state the USPA's mission is not to protect a profesionals produts, that is their responsibility.

The GM program is a very bad idea, especialy if the USPA is now going to step into the middle of business competition between DZ's and related businesses.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Frenchy68 0]

There seem to have been many calls for the "let's get the USPA involved" attitude (at least on dz.com...). Whether it is within the USPA's jurisdiction or not is, I agree, debatable; but it is probably getting involved because members have required it does so...
My guess!

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[diablopilot 2]

And my thread is an answer to those calls, and a call for support against USPA becoming involved in concerns it was never created for.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[freefalle 0]

I don't think its a USPA issue either, while I agree Skyride has bad business practices. Individual members are not being DIRECTLY affected by there actions, IF DZO's are unhappy with the actions of skyride, as they should be, they, should file a class action lawsuit or contact the BBB or possibly contact the FTC to see if they can do anything. I think membership dues can be far better spent on members.

Thats just my opinion

[FrogNog 1]

Aren't DZs often, to a large degree, up-jumper-financed skydiving clubs? Sure, the DZO makes profit or he/she wouldn't be doing it, but I wouldn't trade places with him and to jump without a DZ that's what I'd have to do.

I'm saying if skyride hurts my home DZ, it hurts the jumpers who jump there. Add "USPA member" into a couple places and there we go.


Maybe I see your point that USPA shouldn't be using much of the member money for this sort of thing. But can their assistance, and unique position to organize the DZs, be financed by any other mechanism?

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[bodypilot1 0]

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It has been reported that the USPA is becoming involved with the "SkyRide Issue".

That would be an abuse of the members dues. I would say it would warrent a replacement of those elected persons prompting the involvement by the next election.

In what way has Skyride hurt an individual jumper? Before someone throws out photographic or intenet media theft, let me state the USPA's mission is not to protect a profesionals produts, that is their responsibility.

The GM program is a very bad idea, especialy if the USPA is now going to step into the middle of business competition between DZ's and related businesses.

True.

USPA should not get involved in an area that does not effect it members.



Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[diablopilot 2]

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Aren't DZs often, to a large degree, up-jumper-financed skydiving clubs?

No, most of them are businesses. If they want to be clubs then they can register as NPO's.

I never minded the GM program before this as it didn't detract from the focus on the members much. If this turns out to be a USPA led hunt< I'm calling for the end of the GM program and a wide open look at the MEMBER SUPORTED USPA and how it's operating.

On another topic, why should there ever be a "closed door meeting" in a member suported organization.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[freefalle 0]

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On another topic, why should there ever be a "closed door meeting" in a member suported organization.

I've gotta wonder the same thing. thats like saying a taxpayer cant visit a firehouse for a tour during business hours

[NightJumper 0]

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On another topic, why should there ever be a "closed door meeting" in a member supported organization.

Most states allow this type meeting under certain circumstances. The governing body can have an executive session for such item as pending litigation and discipline. Only the results of the meeting have to be presented to the membership. As an example, say that as a member of an organization I take legal action against them. Should I then be allowed to attend the meeting with the board when they meet with the attorney to discuss the issue? No, of course not. Any organization has to have this type of mechanism to protect the organization as a whole.

[freefalle 0]

Mike,
although I agree with your post that there is certain business which the uspa may conduct that the general membership is not or should not be party to, do you not think that the board has some responsibilty to at least notify the body as to why they are not welcome to attend the proceedings? If they are conducting a meeting regarding internal affairs its one thing, but if they are conducting a meeting and making decisions which affect the membership body, those proceedings should be public

[NightJumper 0]

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although I agree with your post that there is certain business which the uspa may conduct that the general membership is not or should not be party to, do you not think that the board has some responsibilty to at least notify the body as to why they are not welcome to attend the proceedings?

Most states require that the membership be notified of such meetings. They are usually announced as an example: "The board will be meeting in Executive Session to meet with legal counsel". Then the results of the meeting are published but not the discussion.

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If they are conducting a meeting regarding internal affairs its one thing, but if they are conducting a meeting and making decisions which affect the membership body, those proceedings should be public

I disagree. If the meeting meets the criteria for executive session then it should not be made public to the membership even though any decision the board makes during that meeting can affect the membership. Again, I am only talking about specific circumstances that meet the requirements and not the meetings that are for running the day to day business.

[Kbone 0]

This is the best post you have ever written. I'm impressed.

The most simple solution to your problem is to cancel your USPA membership.

Someone with your jump #'s and time in the sport will have no problem boycotting the USPA.

Most dropzones in the area will still allow you to jump
at their facility because they know you and are willing to bend the rules for you.

Now, what is the more typical jumper to do? Every DZ in California is a frekin Group Member. If you don't belong, you can't jump period.

The solution is this.....If enough jumpers cancel their memberships, DZ's will have to let non USPA members jump at their dropzones, assuming they want to stay in business and keep their circle of upjumpers.

Trying to reform the USPA is like beating a dead horse. Just move on and prey that enough people will follow. Only then will you see a real change.

Kbone

[freefalle 0]

who determines what falls under the span of executive session?

[NightJumper 0]

It varies by state, sometimes state law. In other cases it can be addressed by the organizations bylaws or rules and regulations. Most states have some type of "Sunshine Act" that addresses it.

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

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It has been reported that the USPA is becoming involved with the "SkyRide Issue".

That would be an abuse of the members dues.

Not really. Since I am a memeber and I contacted my USPA rep and asked what was being done, asked that more be done, and offered some suggestions to would could be done. Because quite honestly, skyride hurts me by giving my DZ and my favorite sport a bad name. Guilt by association is not ideal, but its a reality.

[freefalle 0]

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This is the best post you have ever written. I'm impressed

I does'nt take much to impress you but once again, your response fails to impress anyone else :troll:

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The most simple solution to your problem is to cancel your USPA membership.

Termination of his or anyones' membership to the USPA is not the answer, termination of membership and people who encourage others to terminate their makes it more difficult for the USPA to do the job the membership has tasked them to do within the scope of their purpose. Termination of his membership is not the answer, being an advocate for the individual member is.

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Someone with your jump #'s and time in the sport will have no problem boycotting the USPA.

who the hell are you to speak for JP's resolve or constitution for what he feels is right, He never said he intends to boycott the USPA, he did say he disagrees with a position they have taken. He feels that the stance the USPA has assumed is not in the best intrest of the individual members. You have no right to say how he feels or should feel about a "boycott".

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Most dropzones in the area will still allow you to jump
at their facility because they know you and are willing to bend the rules for you.

So you are saying you have first hand knowledge that a DZO is breaking the rules and allowing non-USPA members to jump at their DZ's, thats a pretty bold statement, do you have factual evidence to support your statement? If not I'd suggest you retract this statment. It sounds to me as if you are envious of the fact that JP has made a name for himself in the industry and that he is respected by his peers. Who the hell is John Strap anyway?

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Now, what is the more typical jumper to do? Every DZ in California is a frekin Group Member. If you don't belong, you can't jump period.

So are you saying they break the rules, they don't break the rules or they selectively break the rules?

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The solution is this.....If enough jumpers cancel their memberships, DZ's will have to let non USPA members jump at their dropzones, assuming they want to stay in business and keep their circle of upjumpers.

So you are encouraging a boycott of the USPA, I wonder how the USPA would feel about that, do you think it might piss them off enough to pull your ratings and terminate your membership? Probably as likely to happen as a large number of members canceling their membership in protest to the USPAs position on this issue. How stupid does your suggestion sound now?

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Trying to reform the USPA is like beating a dead horse. Just move on and prey that enough people will follow. Only then will you see a real change.

Well, I gotta agree with you here to a point there Kball reform is tough, but if you believe passionately about an issue then you try, it's part of being a man and an adult that thinks beyond ones self. By the way look up the word prey then look up the word pray there college boy. You are Prey, you should Pray, that you don't get caught. does that help.

I still think your a :troll: and normally I wouldn't waste my time responding to your post, but its 0430 and I had nothing better to do.

[Kbone 0]

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You have no right to say how he feels or should feel about a "boycott".

Not sure what country you live in, but in America we do have a right, It's called the first amendment.

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So are you saying they break the rules, they don't break the rules or they selectively break the rules?

They selectively break the rules. Not everyone who jumps at a USPA Group dropzone has a USPA membership. Usually a logbook is enough.

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So you are encouraging a boycott of the USPA, I wonder how the USPA would feel about that, do you think it might piss them off enough to pull your ratings and terminate your membership?

I'm not encouraging JP or anyone to boycott the USPA. I'm simply suggesting the most aggressive approach to solve JP's problem.

Frankly, I don't give a shit what the USPA thinks of me. I doubt JP cares either.

[freefalle 0]

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I'm not encouraging JP or anyone to boycott the USPA. I'm simply suggesting the most aggressive approach to solve JP's problem.

I assume by the profession stated in your profile, if correct, you are an educated person, do you think that you could come up with a more realistic suggestion.
In addition, this is not just JP's problem, it is an issue that effects the mass membership.

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You have no right to say how he feels or should feel about a "boycott".

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Not sure what country you live in, but in America we do have a right, It's called the first amendment.

I must admit, you are correct, your statement is protected by you first amendment right. Perhaps more accurate statement would have been to say


You don't have enough knowledge to say how he feels or should feel about a boycott.

[koz2000 1]

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[On another topic, why should there ever be a "closed door meeting" in a member suported organization.

Completely agree w/ you on this one. If we pay for it, we elect the people in the meetings, we should be privy to what goes on. and not just a transcript.

______________________________________________
- Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes -

[kelpdiver 2]

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In what way has Skyride hurt an individual jumper? Before someone throws out photographic or intenet media theft, let me state the USPA's mission is not to protect a profesionals produts, that is their responsibility.

Do one time tandem customers count as jumpers to you? They're being hurt by the practices, and some of them were potential students. It certainly doesn't help the sport when they tell customers that a given rival DZ is a death zone.

And I read that Perris is no longer accepting them.

[skydived19006 4]

I do agree that the Group Member program is a conflict of interest, and that it’s impossible to represent both sides at times. A couple of things to remember, Group Members do pay dues as well ($300 + a year), so maybe USPA is spending the Group Member money.
I also agree that it would be best to split the two, but realistically I don’t see it happening.
On a somewhat related topic, is it a conflict for USPA to require its Group Member DZs pledge to require individual membership in order to jump at a GM DZ? If the DZs had their own organization, would they still require that skydivers be a member of what would then be a third party organization? I really doubt that the DZs out there that are not USPA Group Members require USPA individual membership to jump at their DZs. Since the DZs would no longer be affiliated with USPA, should the USPA also drop all the BSRs, student training guidelines, ratings, etc, as what would the USPA mean to the new DZ organization, and what authority would USPA have to “enforce” their rules on a business that was not affiliated with them? What percentage of skydivers would drop their individual membership if it were not required?
As with most things in life, it’s never black and white.

That said, I do not think that the USPA should start an advertising program, and trying to spread the cost to any of its members (group or individual).

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ