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jlmiracle

Logging and signing off

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I came across a situation last summer visiting a dropzone. We were "checking in" and was asked for the usual, fill out the waiver, uspa card, rig check and then the asked to see our logbooks. I handed them my logbook then proceeded to get a rash of crap about them not being signed. I told the S&TA that I was told when I started skydiving (9 years ago) I did not need to have a signature once I got my D license. He said that was wrong and that had changed years ago. Then he explained that anyone could forge a logbook entry and my response was anyone can forge a signature.

After calling our Regional Director because he knew all of us, he talked to the S&TA and told them we were legit and we were finally cleared to jump.

Just wondering if everyone still logs and has their logbooks signed and if they ever encountered a situation after having your D-license.

Judy
Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

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I'm trying to think of all the DZ's I've visited that have asked for my logbook.. and the only one I can think of is San Marcos. Everyone else seems satisfied with my USPA card and B license.
I always thought that the main reason you log your jumps and have them signed off is for licenses and ratings. So I guess I dont understand why you'd get crap for not having your logs signed.

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I only get "special" jumps signed anymore. For example, on the 20th anniversary of "official" tandem jumping I was at Carolina Sky Sports along with Bill Booth, Ted Strong, and a lot of other people who wanted to be a part of the 20-tandem (two CASAs in formation) skydive. I followed Bill Booth out of the airplane with my passenger, landed safely on target, then got Bill to sign my logbook for that jump. Truthfully, you really don't need signatures at all once you have met the criteria for whatever terminal rating you might want to get. If nothing else, get signatures for your first 500 jumps and at least six hours of freefall. Likewise, you will need signatures for your "declared" jumps and your yearly renewal jumps for your PRO card if you want one or need to maintain it.

Chuck

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Sign and log my own jumps. I echo your sentiment in that anything can be forged. Like Chuck, though, if something "special" happens I get it signed by those participating.

My log book is a joke really as it only contains the jump type and date: FF X 12 and a date with a signature. I don't plan on getting any ratings so it's not a concern for me.

edit: I can't remember the last time I was asked for my log book. I always find it a little surprising.

Blues,
Ian
Performance Designs Factory Team

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I had a Florida DZ manifest give me shit about not having my log book signed, but just a brief tongue lashing then allowed jump. I’ve since decided that if I’m going to travel, I’ll try to remember to have a little “signing party” with my buddies. When others ask me to sign their log book (excluding students) I’ll forge a dead president, or porn stars signature, very seldom does anyone even notice that “Richard M Nixon” just signed their log book. I also doubt that the manifest would notice that all your skydiving buddies were dead presidents either. I do put down my correct D or other number.
Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

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...asked to see our logbooks. I handed them my logbook then proceeded to get a rash of crap about them not being signed...



Sheesh. I haven't had anyone want to check my logbook in many years. But then, maybe I have that "old timer" look now.

As long as you've got your USPA license credentials, I don't see what the problem is.

Care to say which DZ this was?

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My log book is MY record of my jumps, and the way I have always looked at it (since getting my "D" ...same as you), is that I will only get sig's in it, if it is a signature I either WANT, or feel is significant.

Right now, I usually only seek out the signatures of some of the extremely LOW D #'s ...simply because our opportunity there; well ...it is what it is. And/or if it is either a statistically important or otherwise "landmark jump" ...I may then actually want (and get) everyone's signature who was on the jump (note... 50-ways and under ;)).

If that "rule" or consideration really did get "changed" long ago, then you can add me too ...to being one who would be grossly out of "compliance" then as well. ...And no, I do not intend to change that no matter what. DZO doesn't want me jumping there without some other punks A# "verifying" I jumped when I said I did or what-have-you, that's fine. I don't need to jump there & can go somewhere else too.

Personally though, I've never really had any "problem" (yet ...knock on wood) travelling anywhere. I usually have "enough" signatures too I guess, "close enough" I guess to when/where I've jumped last that it has never been a problem. Right now, I look at and consider my log books too, my own personal "autograph (and memory) book." Personally, I don't need (or WANT) it cluttered with a bunch of meaningless (to me) arbitrary and unknown sigs. ...But that's just me.

Usually too, I think, a reasonably seasoned DZO can "smell" anything either funny (or not) going on. Heck ...if he/she even wants to come up with me on an "introduction/orientation/check" dive ...that's fine with me. -It's all good! :)

Blue Skies,
-Grant
coitus non circum - Moab Stone

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...asked to see our logbooks. I handed them my logbook then proceeded to get a rash of crap about them not being signed...



Sheesh. I haven't had anyone want to check my logbook in many years. But then, maybe I have that "old timer" look now.

As long as you've got your USPA license credentials, I don't see what the problem is.

Care to say which DZ this was?



I really don't want to name the DZ because I don't really think they do it to everyone, and other than dealing with the S&TA and a really rank smelling rigger, we had a pretty nice time. We spoke with some of the locals and they couldn't believe it.

I would think an in-date USPA card showing a D license and an Instructor rating would have been good enough too, but I guess we caught them on a bad day.

Judy
Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

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I rarely keep a paper log anymore, all electronic and even then, I only get special jumps signed, such as my 1000th jump was signed, my first jump with Morgan was signed by her, etc.

I just don't care to keep a paper log up to date anymore.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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I have most but not all of my jumps signed. That being said the ones that aren't signed, I do know who was on the jumps with me and could get them to sign it or just sign it myself.

I've only had an issue with 1 DZ that was getting pissy about logbook signatures, and it was the party I was with that was getting the grief (a D license skydiver).
Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

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i recently decided to catch up on my log book, been a little slack over the xmas new year, and went through my protrack to get dates and jumps, and dicovered I was 46 jumps behind... doh!

try remebering what you did 46 jumps ago, needless to say i have 46 log book entries that say "Freefly, good jump." all signed be me....
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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

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I've encountered a couple of DZs that wanted to see my logbook to verify currency, but I can't remember one ever giving me any shit about signatures. I've even been to one DZ that didn't want to see my USPA info, but only my logbook.

Other than training flights, I don't have my pilot logbook signed by anyone but me. The FAA trusts that when I sign a page, I am personally attesting to the information on that page. I don't understand why the USPA seems to think that we can't attest to our own skydives.

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Jump number 612 is the last one I ever logged. Last spring I got print outs and figured out (approximately) my jump numbers. I now keep track of the number, but 612 is the last jump that I actually wrote anything about.

When I was in Australia over the summer I brought my rig and USPA license, but not my log book (since it hadn't been used in a long time.) I got a lot of flack over there and was pretty heavily questioned before I was allowed to jump. Never had a problem in this country though.
Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

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In my country (Uruguay) logging and signing is mandatory for every level. For those who already have a D licence it is the way to know if one is current or not (I agree there can be forged entries and signatures). We need to renew our license yearly and if one has not jumped for a long time (I don't remember how long) one has to do a jump with Instructor certification to be able to renew the license.

It's far from perfect but I think it helps safety.



HISPA # 18 POPS # 8757

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Interesting. I am reasonably well traveled, but not extremely well traveled. The last time I was asked for my logbooks was when I re-entered the sport 4 years ago after a multi-year layoff, and the DZ I was starting at didn't know me. I have jumps signed occasionally, usually by someone I haven't jumped with before. Signatures weren't required when I got my diamond wings. I am not aware of any up jumper that routinely gets sigs in his logbook.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

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As long as you've got your USPA license credentials, I don't see what the problem is.



This seems to be a common thought in this thread from the more experienced crowd. Honestly, I’m disappointed in all of you. The USPA does have currency requirements for ALL skydivers including D licenses. It is not only acceptable but is effectively mandatory for a USPA DZ to request proof of currency. I’m sorry you guys don’t like to fill out your logbooks, who does, but there are a lot of reasons for it beyond obtaining licenses, for example proof of currency! I’m shocked that respected members of the skydiving community with thousands of jumps are getting pissy about playing by the rules, “I’ve got X thousands of jumps over X years and a D license, why should I have to show currency at a DZ where they don’t know me?” is not the kind of attitude that highly experienced jumpers should be demonstrating. It sets a bad precedent for lower timers. Come on guys, what it would take 5 minutes to at least partially update you log book before visiting a new DZ?
"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

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I log all my jumps in my log book, but I don't get them signed. I'm doing good that I log the jumps, if I had to track someone down to sign them, I'd be in big trouble.
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

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I had the exact situation when I checked in at Perris last month. Solved that by giving my logbook to my SO to sign the last entry. I had my logbooks from 1000 - through 4500 dives with me. That's a lot of forging to try and get on a load.

At Elsinore it was a different story, as I know Lob quite well, and we go back a long way.

t
It's the year of the Pig.

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I still get all mine signed, at least when I remember to ask people to sign them. I'm sure I'll stop once I get my D, if not before then(it's not like anyone checked my log book when I applied for my A or anything). But I definately will always log my jumps.

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I just don't care to keep a paper log up to date anymore.



I'm with you AD, every since I got my pro-track and jump-track software I just download my jumps every weekend and don't worry about the log book. When going to boogies I print out the last page or so of jumps and take that with me to the boogie. If need be Derek will sign the bottom of the page. So far I haven't had a problem with it, but I can see how a DZ that is not party of the computer age would probably not accept it. Of course in that case I would tell them to have a nice day and go do something thing else. I guess I'm at that point in my jumping career that I don't really care if I jump or not. :)
Fly it like you stole it!

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At Perris 2 yrs ago for the POPs record we had to mak up a fake log book page. Last year at the 100+ sequential invitasional I had manifest from Spaceland to print the last page of my account and when I tried to show manifest at Perris they were like what's that for? Go figure. I haven't logged in a book since around 700.:S












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I just don't care to keep a paper log up to date anymore.



I'm with you AD, every since I got my pro-track and jump-track software I just download my jumps every weekend and don't worry about the log book. When going to boogies I print out the last page or so of jumps and take that with me to the boogie. If need be Derek will sign the bottom of the page. So far I haven't had a problem with it, but I can see how a DZ that is not party of the computer age would probably not accept it. Of course in that case I would tell them to have a nice day and go do something thing else. I guess I'm at that point in my jumping career that I don't really care if I jump or not. :)


That's a great idea! I haven't filled my log book out for the last 500 or so jumps and I was wondering how I'd get around that. I'll just try that next time!

--------------

(Do not, I repeat DO NOT, take my posts seriously.)

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I've been asked for my logbook at Perris



At Perris 4 days ago, for my first jump at that DZ ever, they asked, "Is your very last jump signed?" They took a photo copy of that entry plus my USPA card plus my Drivers License... I wonder if I had a jump within currency, but did not get the LAST jump signed, if they would have let it pass. They really did seem to want the very LAST jump signed for whatever reason. I hope I could have given them a jump from a week before as sometimes I skip an entry every once in a while if everyone is packing up and I don't want to bug them...

I saw another guy arguing about the last jump being signed. They denied him.

But they DID NOT look to see if I was licensed (my USPA card I had did not show my license.) It appears that if I was self trained or filled up a log book with a bunch of fake signatures, and I was a USPA member, I could have jumped without them "catching it."

At another DZ in CA - they asked when I last jumped, I offered my logbook, but did not even look at it - but were much more concerned with my A license.

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