Smeger 0 #1 February 23, 2005 Hello all, I'm from the UK and Wondered if I got got an idea of your experience before I start the AFF. I've done 3 Tandem Jumps, soon to be a fourth in summer for a mates birthday. During the last two I was able to practice some techniques in free-fall like turing, tracking and learning where to be under canopy. Even after a triple back-flip at 14,000ft, I was still in complete control of where I was and what I had to do, it was AWESOME. The problem is that I saw a double Mal clip the other day, you may have seen it, plus the amount of people that have screws, plates and pins in their legs, I'm wondering whether its worth it. I'd rather scare myself out of it now before I get over confident and aimlessly injure myself later. Could anyone please share how they injured themselves and on what number jump (although I know thats really irrelevant). I've always had an OVERWHELMING feeling of the need to fly, float, fall, jump and still REALLY want to do it. But at the same time i'd like to keep my shins intact, atl east while I'm young lol. Thanks everyone, this is an awesome website, learn't so much from you guys, laterz all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #2 February 23, 2005 It’s worth it - for me. Is it worth it for you? Only you can make that call. The risk of injury is probably not as high as you’re billing it. Don’t get me wrong, the risk is there... but it can be mitigated though intelligent choices. Be intelligent; be safe; make your call. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
op5e 0 #3 February 23, 2005 I would first like to add that the double mal clip you probably saw, was caused by someone doing tricks under canopy. It was a risky activity and I believe you can be as dangerous or safe as you like in skydiving. There is definately a risk in anything we do, only you can answer the question of if it is worth it. Go to www.skydivingmovies.com and go to the opps section alot there to give you some reality. I have not broken any bones skydiving but I have only got 27 skydives. If I did break a bone skydiving I would not regret it becaue I know I play it safe and shit happens. Same reason I will ride a motorbike after I get my leg out of the cast. A friend of mine broke his arm after jump number 3, he did not follow TA, flared high and was going down wind. If you look at your countries skydiving magazine they will most likely have accidents that have occured in the last month. In Australia these list license, how it occured, ways to handle it in the future. Congrats on the tandems, but only you will know if the voices in your head are a passing fad or not. The one thing you should be concerned about, is if your wallet can handle the addiction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
evilivan 0 #4 February 23, 2005 Quote....I'd rather scare myself out of it now before I get over confident and aimlessly injure myself later. I think what your quote above is what you have to consider; there is a definite risk of injury (although many if not most injuries are due to pilot error/bad choices and not equipment failure). If you are already thinking that the injuries are aimless, then maybe it would be wiser not to put yourself in a position of risk. But on the upside, its one the best things I have ever done (and continue to do). BTW, I haven't seriously hurt myself skydiving in approx 1300 jumps, but have come pretty close and been lucky at times. I have managed to break myself doing other things though - its always an option, whatever you choose to do... Good luck with your decision"If you can keep your head when all around you have lost theirs, then you probably haven't understood the seriousness of the situation." David Brent Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #5 February 23, 2005 There will always be a risk of injury/death but you have a large degree of control over that risk. Behave like a jackass and the risk soars. Behave sensibly, progress cautiously and the risk is significantly lower. I've managed 928 jumps with nothing more serious than a few scrapes and bruises - and most of them were from me behaving like an idiot. mr2mk1g has it right - only you can decide whether the benefit is worth the risk. It sounds like you've got the urge. My advice is to stop wasting money on tandems and get on a course. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darrenspooner 0 #6 February 23, 2005 I'll go along with all that. The very large majority of accidents and fatalities happen under a fully inflated canopy. Usually human error, stupidity or carelessness. If you start off flying your canopy like you drive your car on ice then you should be able to gradually build some confidence. Occasionally people get hurt because of a malfunction that was not avoidable. But this is very rare compared to the people that get hurt trying to be too cool too soon. ***Die with your boots on Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #7 February 23, 2005 We do it because we believe it is worth it. Also, note that bad stuff gets on video and TV because it is sensational, and unusual. I've been jumping a long time, but the crazy stuff I see on video is very rare, that's why it makes the rounds. Also, even the crazy ones can be instructional, as mentioned above, the trick that preceeded the double malfunction is a reminder that we can minimize such bad possibilities. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smeger 0 #8 February 23, 2005 Thanks for your words or wisdom people, much appreciated. I have been thinking that accidents happen all the time in the most random and unexpected ways. People have drowned in soup at the dinner table before. At the end of the day at least I have some idea of what accidents I am vulnerable to and therefore probably have a better chance of at least preparing for them. I LUV life, I LUV this planet. I've been storm chasing twice and going again in May. I consider that worth the risk to see the incredible force of this planet. I loved the Tandem jumps. May sound a little strange, but I found it amazingly refreshing and relaxing...I think its the sensation of freedom I really enjoy, sort or like swimming underwater, does that sound stupid? (after the initial jump that is lol , awesome ). I guess if I'm going to have an unavoidable accident at some point, it may as well be over something worth while. I used to jump off the top of my climbing frame when I was very young, thinking I could fly, then my old cheese would fix me up and then tell me not to do it again. Then five minutes later she would see me up there again with my arms out LOL, (used to be well into Superman at the time, had the cape and everything ). Curiosity never stopped me then.. May have been caused by my older brother swinging me upside-down in my baby bouncer all those years ago lol? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
evilivan 0 #9 February 23, 2005 QuoteAt the end of the day at least I have some idea of what accidents I am vulnerable to and therefore probably have a better chance of at least preparing for them. ....that's the nugget mate - keep working with that, it should really help minimising the potential risks."If you can keep your head when all around you have lost theirs, then you probably haven't understood the seriousness of the situation." David Brent Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PsychoBob 0 #10 February 23, 2005 ***May sound a little strange, but I found it amazingly refreshing and relaxing...I think its the sensation of freedom I really enjoy, sort or like swimming underwater, does that sound stupid? (after the initial jump that is lol , awesome ). I guess if I'm going to have an unavoidable accident at some point, it may as well be over something worth while. QuoteIt is not strange or stupid to us that jump. We can appreciate the rush, excitement and thrill of skydiving whereas some people get that from watching sports on tv, knitting or watching paint dry. When I was in high school they showed us films of horrific car crashes but that did not stop me from driving. People die everyday from accidents beyond their control. Be safe and enjoy life. You only get one shot at it, make it count. Good luck."I'm not a gynecologist but I will take a look at it" RB #1295, Smokey Sister #1, HellFish #658, Dirty Sanchez #194, Muff Brothers #3834, POPS #9614, Orfun Foster-Parent?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumperconway 0 #11 February 23, 2005 "It was a risky activity and I believe you can be as dangerous or safe as you like in skydiving." You can stack the odds in your favor but never forget that you can do everything right in this sport and still die! You must understand the harsh reality that you are basically committing suicide everytime you fling your body out of an airplane until you do something to change that outcome! There is risk in everything we do in life and we can minimize that risk and yet still die! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #12 February 23, 2005 Here's my version of it. Skydiving can be as safe or as dangerous as you want it to be. If you simply love flying and want to take it easy, you can buy a nice docile canopy and bring every landing straight in. If you wanna look cool in front of your girlfriend and wanna be known as an "extreme risktaker", then you can buy a hankerchief of a parachute and scream in at mach 3 and probably end up with scars to pick up chicks with (or gross them out with, depending on how bad the hook turn repair kit was mounted). Either way, you can't forget the fact that shit happens. You could go 1000 jumps with no malfunctions, or you could have one at 20 jumps. You never know. Skydiving is dangerous, but so is driving, skiing, snowboarding, football, etc.....whether you're cruisin in your Ferrari or sputtering in your Pinto, something could happen any time, be it your fault or not. That being said, you need to weigh on the fact that, yes, you could die doing this, but you also have the power to lessen (not eliminate) the odds. Nobody can make your decisions for you because only you know what you have to lose. Remember two of my favorite sayings...... He who risks nothing can appreciate nothing. I refuse to tiptoe my way through life only to arrive safely at death. It's your choice. Good luck. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZoneRat 0 #13 February 23, 2005 So that double mal vid rattled your cage a bit? If it'll make ya feel any better I can send you a tape containing hour after hour of boring, uneventful 4-way video. .“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #14 February 23, 2005 QuoteI was still in complete control of where I was and what I had to do, it was AWESOME Ok, first of all I'm a tandem instructor with over 500 tandem jumps. You were NOT in complete control of where you were and what you were doing. Your tandem instructor was. There is very little you can do while riding on the front of me that I can't control and over power. What you have learned are some basic body positions and some basic canopy flight to help you progress and learn once you transition to AFF. I think you don't need us here to tell you to back off, I KNOW for a fact that AFF will kick you in the head and wake you up. Every Cat A/Cat B tandem student I've ever trained has come back and told me "thanks for teaching me, it helped a lot but damnit is it different and harder when you're not back there helping out!" So go continue and do AFF, you'll find that your attitude changes QUICK!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites goose491 0 #15 February 23, 2005 Bones heal and Chicks dig scars!! Seriously though. You've done some tandems, you've got a small idea of of the Joy. About the pain? Well I'm not sure you've got any real idea. Someone else posted (and I wish I remember who) that he considered this to be a "Low Risk, High Hazzard" sport. That is to say, the chances of something going wrong are slimmer than you think, but when something does go wrong, it has a tendency to go South Real Fast. It's really tuff for anyone to say "It's worth it" because our risk levels are all different. Generally, people aren't hitting the ground because their "chutes didn't open"... Some on this board will tell you "You can do everythings right in this sport and still die.", I maintain that it's all human error. Either way, you'll find that at the very least, MOST injuries and deaths in this sport are caused by a bad judgment call... or no call where one should have been made. Tread lightly and you should be fine. Only you can decide though. Nick My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Smeger 0 #16 February 23, 2005 Dude, I didn't mean that I had physical control over my position. I just meant that I didn't freak out or become disorientated for the three flips. I realised even before we jumped that tracking from a tandem, with a drogue shoot dragging behind is nearly impossible. We probably tracked about 5 feet lol . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #17 February 23, 2005 You missed the point. The point is that your body position was most likely not great, it was good enough and good enough to learn with, and that not matter what your instrcutor was behind you to bail you out if you forgot something or screwed up. Once you transition to AFF you are responsible for your own ass, you're trained to save your own ass and trained how to land your own ass with no help. Sure there will be instructors there to help, BUT it has happened before it'll happen again...you might loose them on exit or something else like that. The point is go do an AFF jump now that youv'e done your training tandems and your eyes will be opened. (did you like my humorous reoccuring use of "ass"?)--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Smeger 0 #18 February 23, 2005 I get yea, its my own BUT on the line...mmmmmmmmm......butt lol. So how did your AFF go? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #19 February 23, 2005 My AFF went like hell, they kept deploying me right as I left the step of the airplane... (I did static line nearly 5 years ago, didn't do AFF).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites darrenspooner 0 #20 February 24, 2005 The other thing was, if that double mal video rattled you, then just watch it over and over and over and over.......... It won't rattle you then, it will just be boring. Same as the terror of getting starting in the sport. The more you jump the more you feel in control, the more confidence you will have, the less worried you will be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Smeger 0 #21 February 24, 2005 Yea def man. It still worries me, no matter how many times I watch it. As a result of watching it so many times, I'm learning if only a tiny amount as to what to do if a similar situation arises. NEVER GIVE IN!! Thanks buddy, that cured the shivers lol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RedassSkychic 0 #22 February 24, 2005 QuoteMy AFF went like hell, they kept deploying me right as I left the step of the airplane... haha... that's a good one Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Peej 0 #23 February 25, 2005 Like mr2kmg said, only you can decide for yourself. I, like other serious skydivers have spent a fortune thus far on gear, jumps, boogies, tunnel time, overseas skydiving trips and more recently, an injury. Five months ago I broke my right fib/tib on jump number 266. You can find the incident report here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1280511;search_string=JSC%20Injury;#1280511 My side of the story? I got cocky. For the time i'd been jumping up until this point i'd promised myself that i'd be careful and when starting to do things on the risers i sought canopy coaching and advice from experienced pilots on my dz. Still, that changed nothing when i arrived back home and decided to "lay down a big one" to impress. In fact I can even remember the exact time in the canopy flight when the thought went through my head and i comitted myself. It was a stupid mistake brought on by a momentary ego spike and it will never happen again. Still, my injury doesn't change my commitment to the sport or the way i feel about the disciplines i've chosen. Skydiving (and now BASE) have given me some of the most amazing experiences and friends across the globe. It has honestly changed my life and the way i look at the world. It's taught me to value friendships, tell people my feelings because they might not be there to hear them later and causes me to look up at a beautiful, clear blue sky and truly appreciate it for what it is: a chance to be free. peace PJ Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MattyBoy 0 #24 February 27, 2005 QuoteIt’s worth it - for me. Is it worth it for you? Only you can make that call. Hear Hear! I may be gullible but at least I have a magic fish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites op5e 0 #25 February 28, 2005 I agree with you. I should have put "safe" in commas but I was just stating that in the risky activity we all love there are risks you can take that make it all the more dangerous. And it is your choice if you are willing to take these risks. But thanks for clearing it up, you definately described it better than i could. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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jumperconway 0 #11 February 23, 2005 "It was a risky activity and I believe you can be as dangerous or safe as you like in skydiving." You can stack the odds in your favor but never forget that you can do everything right in this sport and still die! You must understand the harsh reality that you are basically committing suicide everytime you fling your body out of an airplane until you do something to change that outcome! There is risk in everything we do in life and we can minimize that risk and yet still die! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #12 February 23, 2005 Here's my version of it. Skydiving can be as safe or as dangerous as you want it to be. If you simply love flying and want to take it easy, you can buy a nice docile canopy and bring every landing straight in. If you wanna look cool in front of your girlfriend and wanna be known as an "extreme risktaker", then you can buy a hankerchief of a parachute and scream in at mach 3 and probably end up with scars to pick up chicks with (or gross them out with, depending on how bad the hook turn repair kit was mounted). Either way, you can't forget the fact that shit happens. You could go 1000 jumps with no malfunctions, or you could have one at 20 jumps. You never know. Skydiving is dangerous, but so is driving, skiing, snowboarding, football, etc.....whether you're cruisin in your Ferrari or sputtering in your Pinto, something could happen any time, be it your fault or not. That being said, you need to weigh on the fact that, yes, you could die doing this, but you also have the power to lessen (not eliminate) the odds. Nobody can make your decisions for you because only you know what you have to lose. Remember two of my favorite sayings...... He who risks nothing can appreciate nothing. I refuse to tiptoe my way through life only to arrive safely at death. It's your choice. Good luck. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZoneRat 0 #13 February 23, 2005 So that double mal vid rattled your cage a bit? If it'll make ya feel any better I can send you a tape containing hour after hour of boring, uneventful 4-way video. .“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #14 February 23, 2005 QuoteI was still in complete control of where I was and what I had to do, it was AWESOME Ok, first of all I'm a tandem instructor with over 500 tandem jumps. You were NOT in complete control of where you were and what you were doing. Your tandem instructor was. There is very little you can do while riding on the front of me that I can't control and over power. What you have learned are some basic body positions and some basic canopy flight to help you progress and learn once you transition to AFF. I think you don't need us here to tell you to back off, I KNOW for a fact that AFF will kick you in the head and wake you up. Every Cat A/Cat B tandem student I've ever trained has come back and told me "thanks for teaching me, it helped a lot but damnit is it different and harder when you're not back there helping out!" So go continue and do AFF, you'll find that your attitude changes QUICK!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #15 February 23, 2005 Bones heal and Chicks dig scars!! Seriously though. You've done some tandems, you've got a small idea of of the Joy. About the pain? Well I'm not sure you've got any real idea. Someone else posted (and I wish I remember who) that he considered this to be a "Low Risk, High Hazzard" sport. That is to say, the chances of something going wrong are slimmer than you think, but when something does go wrong, it has a tendency to go South Real Fast. It's really tuff for anyone to say "It's worth it" because our risk levels are all different. Generally, people aren't hitting the ground because their "chutes didn't open"... Some on this board will tell you "You can do everythings right in this sport and still die.", I maintain that it's all human error. Either way, you'll find that at the very least, MOST injuries and deaths in this sport are caused by a bad judgment call... or no call where one should have been made. Tread lightly and you should be fine. Only you can decide though. Nick My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smeger 0 #16 February 23, 2005 Dude, I didn't mean that I had physical control over my position. I just meant that I didn't freak out or become disorientated for the three flips. I realised even before we jumped that tracking from a tandem, with a drogue shoot dragging behind is nearly impossible. We probably tracked about 5 feet lol . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #17 February 23, 2005 You missed the point. The point is that your body position was most likely not great, it was good enough and good enough to learn with, and that not matter what your instrcutor was behind you to bail you out if you forgot something or screwed up. Once you transition to AFF you are responsible for your own ass, you're trained to save your own ass and trained how to land your own ass with no help. Sure there will be instructors there to help, BUT it has happened before it'll happen again...you might loose them on exit or something else like that. The point is go do an AFF jump now that youv'e done your training tandems and your eyes will be opened. (did you like my humorous reoccuring use of "ass"?)--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smeger 0 #18 February 23, 2005 I get yea, its my own BUT on the line...mmmmmmmmm......butt lol. So how did your AFF go? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #19 February 23, 2005 My AFF went like hell, they kept deploying me right as I left the step of the airplane... (I did static line nearly 5 years ago, didn't do AFF).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darrenspooner 0 #20 February 24, 2005 The other thing was, if that double mal video rattled you, then just watch it over and over and over and over.......... It won't rattle you then, it will just be boring. Same as the terror of getting starting in the sport. The more you jump the more you feel in control, the more confidence you will have, the less worried you will be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smeger 0 #21 February 24, 2005 Yea def man. It still worries me, no matter how many times I watch it. As a result of watching it so many times, I'm learning if only a tiny amount as to what to do if a similar situation arises. NEVER GIVE IN!! Thanks buddy, that cured the shivers lol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedassSkychic 0 #22 February 24, 2005 QuoteMy AFF went like hell, they kept deploying me right as I left the step of the airplane... haha... that's a good one Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #23 February 25, 2005 Like mr2kmg said, only you can decide for yourself. I, like other serious skydivers have spent a fortune thus far on gear, jumps, boogies, tunnel time, overseas skydiving trips and more recently, an injury. Five months ago I broke my right fib/tib on jump number 266. You can find the incident report here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1280511;search_string=JSC%20Injury;#1280511 My side of the story? I got cocky. For the time i'd been jumping up until this point i'd promised myself that i'd be careful and when starting to do things on the risers i sought canopy coaching and advice from experienced pilots on my dz. Still, that changed nothing when i arrived back home and decided to "lay down a big one" to impress. In fact I can even remember the exact time in the canopy flight when the thought went through my head and i comitted myself. It was a stupid mistake brought on by a momentary ego spike and it will never happen again. Still, my injury doesn't change my commitment to the sport or the way i feel about the disciplines i've chosen. Skydiving (and now BASE) have given me some of the most amazing experiences and friends across the globe. It has honestly changed my life and the way i look at the world. It's taught me to value friendships, tell people my feelings because they might not be there to hear them later and causes me to look up at a beautiful, clear blue sky and truly appreciate it for what it is: a chance to be free. peace PJ Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattyBoy 0 #24 February 27, 2005 QuoteIt’s worth it - for me. Is it worth it for you? Only you can make that call. Hear Hear! I may be gullible but at least I have a magic fish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
op5e 0 #25 February 28, 2005 I agree with you. I should have put "safe" in commas but I was just stating that in the risky activity we all love there are risks you can take that make it all the more dangerous. And it is your choice if you are willing to take these risks. But thanks for clearing it up, you definately described it better than i could. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
