CanuckInUSA 0 #76 April 6, 2005 Quotealright i got too many replies with people not flyin aggressive canopies. Isn't it my choice how fast I want to go. I know the possibilities. Dang ... looks like you've had a tough 24 hours since you started this thread. We've all made mistakes posting stuff on DZ.COM and well slamming PD was your mistake this time around. But let's go beyond that now and start trying to focus on the real issue at hand. It sounds like you want to start jumping a more high performance wing? Question: have you ever received any canopy control coaching and better yet have you received any high performance canopy control coaching? If you haven't might I suggest you start looking into this ASAP. Why swoop through "trial and error"? We don't know you (at least most of us don't know you) and we don't see you fly your canopy. So we shouldn't be judging people we've never seen. But you also need to understand why people do what they they (you know the canopy nazis) and that's because many people before us have made mistakes, been jumping a wing that they weren't ready for and gotten hurt or killed. And many of the people here are just trying to prevent you from being another USPA statistic. What you really should do if you really want to start flying a more high performance wing is to arrange some sort of high performance canopy control coaching, let the coach see where you are in your progression and let them help you set out a plan. Hopefully you know that 400 jumps is shit just as my 900+ jumps is shit compared to the really good guys and gals out there. But coming here to DZ.COM and complaining that PD wouldn't let you jump one of their demo high performance canopies wasn't productive and neither is asking the DZ.COM masses what is the best canopy for you to be jumping. Only you and a reputable canopy control coach know your current skill and experience level and will know which wing is best for you right now. Have fun ... be smart ... swooping is very unforgiving of the errors we make up there. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #77 April 6, 2005 QuoteHello Everyone, I publicly would like to commend Kim on doing a great job handling the demo requests and if any of you have not worked with her yet, please e-mail her at [email protected]. Thank you. Justin Thornton Is this the Kim P that worked from Birdman previously? She is awesome. So is Kolla. Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #78 April 6, 2005 > alright i got too many replies with people not flyin aggressive canopies. Most of the people giving you advice here have flown very aggressive canopies. Believe it or not, there are some people out there who may know more than you about HP canopy flight. If you are willing to learn from them, you can learn an awful lot about canopy flight. >Isn't it my choice how fast I want to go. Of course. And it's PD's choice to give you a demo, and the DZO's choice as to whether or not you can jump it there. Many DZO's have gotten tired of cleaning people off their runways and landing areas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudi 0 #79 April 6, 2005 PM sent... Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 35 #80 April 6, 2005 Yes, that Kim P. is totally awesome! PD and its customers are very lucky to have her now. She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudi 0 #81 April 6, 2005 QuotePD and its customers are very lucky to have her now. You're only saying that because it's true... Believe me, it's the other way around! I love this place & PD's customers are the best!! Kim Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumperconway 0 #82 April 6, 2005 PD sucks, I asked Kolla fer a Velo 38 so I could top Luigi and she said absolutly not! Y'all just don't understand customer service! Tell Kolla she should have come to Dublin, we missed ya Sweetie! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyshrek 0 #83 April 6, 2005 Kolla is awesome but her accent needs improving slightly. Bloody foreignerslolhttp://www.skydivethefarm.com do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skr 1 #84 April 7, 2005 This is not an answer to the original poster's situation but every time I have dealt with PD they have been really helpful. Skr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #85 April 7, 2005 Quote*** We are all grown adults and capable of making our own decisions on what we choose to fly. The people at PD don't know anything about you and shouldn't be in the business of "rating" skydivers abilities. What is the point of checking references for a demo anyway? Anyone can use "fake" references and if someone bounces, PD could get sued because they didn't check the references properly. It's opening a can of worms that could be totally avoided if they would just treat skydivers like adults and have a general waiver of liability, just like the one you sign at the DZ. Maybe if all skydivers acted like adults. I've seen someone under 200 jumps under an 84 Velo (and has since died in a jump related accident). It's very simple to check your jump credentials. If they know your DZO, JM, rigger, store, etc they can easily check up on you. For instance - I forgot my log book at home before I ran off to a boogie. While I was sitting at Manifest they called Skydive Chicago and asked Roger Nelson to vouch for my currency . If you raised a few red flags and they didn't check your references, can you imagine the shit storm that would brew after your bounced on their demo? It only takes one idiot to f*ck up the entire system. There are people waiting in line to be that idiot. edit to add - good on PD for being smart about this. I've never had a problem with them and have always had superior customer service from everyone within that company._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #86 April 7, 2005 I've read al there replies to the guys posts which piss and moan about jump numbers V's canopy size and all his/her post and I can't find anywhere where they complain about not getting a demo canopy. The complaint seems to be in the way he/she was dealt with afetr a demo had been agreed upon. not the actual declination of the demo. Man you lot are REALLY intolerant and qucik to judge and jump on someoneYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dead4Life 0 #87 April 7, 2005 QuoteMan you lot are REALLY intolerant and qucik to judge and jump on someone I totally agree. Besides, nobody cares about Performance Designs canopies anymore. Their technology is outdated and they refuse to design a 27 cell crossbrace. It's never good business to rest on ones own acclaim. There are better canopies from better manufacturers. Try one of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #88 April 7, 2005 Quote[Besides, nobody cares about Performance Designs canopies anymore. Their technology is outdated and they refuse to design a 27 cell crossbrace...There are better canopies from better manufacturers. Try one of them. But the Velo is still one of the best (cross-braced)canopies on the market isn't it ?? and that kind of remark from a person who's profile saysQuoteMain Canopy: Sabre2 150 ft² (1.33 lbs/ft²) Reserve Canopy: PD Reserve 143 ft² (1.40 lbs/ft²) scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #89 April 7, 2005 QuoteBesides, nobody cares about Performance Designs canopies anymore. Their technology is outdated and they refuse to design a 27 cell crossbrace. LOL...Outdated? You are killing me. QuoteIt's never good business to rest on ones own acclaim. It's wose business to sell or let someone borrow something that will kill them... Defending Lawsuits sucks. QuoteThere are better canopies from better manufacturers I disagree 100% And your own profile says you have PD's in both your main and reserve trays."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gemini 0 #90 April 7, 2005 QuoteIt only takes one idiot to f*ck up the entire system. There are people waiting in line to be that idiot. Even though the statement is true and in someway very sad, it at the same time is sarcastically funny. Blue skies, Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #91 April 7, 2005 Um, how many times do you here "Comp won by PD pilot"? They win ALOT these days. If thier wimpy 21 cell Velocity is kickin so much ass on the Comp circuit, why make a 27 cell? I have heard that the 21-cell FX was good, but not perfect, and the correctible qualities of the FX, in part, let to the need for/creation of the 27 cell VX. If the Velocity opens great and is winning at 21 cells, why make a 27 cell version? I'm sure the market for it would be huge though....... -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #92 April 7, 2005 QuoteBesides, nobody cares about Performance Designs canopies anymore. Their technology is outdated and they refuse to design a 27 cell crossbrace. You know this for certain? Have you hung around Deland to see the test jumps under their proto types? Hmmm....should Icarus release the VX39 to the market because people demand that as well? Maybe the people that do more jumps in a week than you have done in your life know what they are doing? btw - I asked LeBlanc about the 27 cell canopy about a year or two ago. His response? "How do you know we don't have one made?" and gave a big smile. At the time the PD opinion was why fix what isn't broken? I would send them an email to get their current opinion. The Velo is still beating almost any other canopy on the market (if you want to dispute that, look at the results for the Canopy World Cup a couple months back).....when jumpers have finally learned how to get everything out of that canopy and there is a market for something else....I would guess you would see a new canopy then. It says alot about a canopy when people with several thousand jumps under it are still learning how to fly it better. That should also make you think about your own canopy progression. As far as outdated - ha! The Velo only hit the market a couple of years ago (AFTER the FX and VX). Since then they have released the Vengeance, Sabre 2, several new PD Reserve sizes, and the Katana (and I think a new tandem main and a bunch of military canopies). So much for resting on reputation. Just because other companies need to release a version 2 of a canopy to fix mistakes when they rushed their canopy to the market also says alot about PD. Maybe you should be asking questions to learn about the sport and how it progressed before you knew about it instead of flaming one of the best companies in it?_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #93 April 7, 2005 Quotebtw - I asked LeBlanc about the 27 cell canopy about a year or two ago. His response? "How do you know we don't have one made?" and gave a big smile. At the time the PD opinion was why fix what isn't broken? I would send them an email to get their current opinion. They had ZP Excal's years before Icarus started to make the FX. They didn't feel the need to make them since the Stiletto was still selling like crazy. Marketing question for Dead4life: If you have the majority of the market, and no one can touch your market share or compete with your canopies....Why release the new hot thing when you don't have to release it? PD is ALWAYS testing something. Just because they don't slap a HP canopy together every other day does not mean they are not working on stuff. They made the Navigator which is a great student canopy. Why focus on JUST HP flight when the majority of folks that think of themselves as "canopy pilots" can't fly their old canopy to its max? This quote is great BTW. QuoteIt only takes one idiot to f*ck up the entire system. There are people waiting in line to be that idiot. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #94 April 7, 2005 QuoteQuoteIt only takes one idiot to f*ck up the entire system. There are people waiting in line to be that idiot. Even though the statement is true and in someway very sad, it at the same time is sarcastically funny. Yea, but I'm finding it harder to laugh about those idiots every day. I lost count of how many femurs I've seen a few years back. I've wondered if it is more nature or nuture that creates jumpers like this? Are they prone to be idiots no matter what JM they have or which DZ they come from? Or is it the dropzone and the people there that create these goofs? I know I have done my part to try to change that mindset. I try to lead by example as do many at my DZ......but the idiots still seem to pop up._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mixoligist 0 #95 April 7, 2005 Quote*** nobody cares about Performance Designs canopies anymore. Their technology is outdated and they refuse to design a 27 cell crossbrace. Unproductive text removed by slotperfect PD is top notch all around. This thread is dead................................... Better you than me .................................. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #96 April 7, 2005 Quote Isn't it my choice how fast I want to go. I know the possibilities. It's like a broken record. Let's hope this tourist doesn't leave any body parts on a DZ before they move on........---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foxyroxtail 0 #97 April 7, 2005 I called for a Vengeance demo not long after they came out. I was told the demo I was requesting (same size as the Sabre I wsa flying) would actually feel and fly too big! Told me to try a SMALLER size!! I didn't. Kolla was right. I ended up demo'ing the smaller one next, and it's what I bought. I have almost 800 jumps on it now.I had excellent one on one service, phone calls, emails, my whole family flies PD. And no, I'm not so loyal that I don't try others, and I get good service from them too. But I still end up buying PD. So now I guess I'm a noboby, since nobody likes them . ________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gafneyjr 0 #98 April 7, 2005 Check out the Swooping forum - the results from PD Factory team - proof that they dont need a 27 cell. PD is still the most technologically advanced manufacturer - laser tables; FAA & ISO 9000-2001 certifications; and I am sure many more we are not aware of. Bill Coe has revolutionised skydiving canopies, just as Bill Booth brought so many inovations to skydivers on the rigs. Microline and todays Zero-P are all brain childs of PD as are cross-brace technology and even the shape of the leading edge on most canopies today - the Sabre was the first to incorporate this. Hey, but you seem to like PD canopies - your profile says you use them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Revillusion 0 #99 April 7, 2005 I think we should all bow down to the 400 jump wonder...After reading his post that pd is outdated i'm selling and buying a different canopy VIRTUS JUNXIT MORS NON SEPARABIT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 35 #100 April 7, 2005 Please refrain from personal attacks in the forums.She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
