willso 0 #1 April 24, 2005 Need some advice and/or experiences from anyone out there who has had problems with flipping on ur dive exits!!! I've only done 5 and every time I flipped over, which I don't mind so much, but I'd like to nail one. My main concern is I'm doing stage 9 of AFF (hop n pops) which is from 5000, 4000 and 3000 here (Australia). Flipped, recovered but passed the one at 5', flipped and took waaaaay too long at 4' and have to repeat that before doing the one at 3'!!!! I have had plenty of advice from legs up ur bum, to arms more out, to arch harder, to keep ur head up etc etc etc!! I ended up flailing around a bit and on my back (which I have never done before)?? on the 4' hop n pop, but recovered and pulled at a reasonable height. I am a bit concerned about the LAST TWO jumps of AFF and it is costing $$$$$ with every fail. I feel fine at the skyvan door and have no hesitation actually getting out?? Any advice out there?? Willso Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #2 April 24, 2005 QuoteI have had plenty of advice from legs up ur bum, to arms more out, to arch harder, to keep ur head up etc etc etc!! It sounds like you are receiving good advice. It is possible that you are not coming out with a downward attitude, but perhaps you are diving straight out. This might cause you to barrel roll to the left and end up on your back. Get video of your exit and review it. What you think you are doing may be different from what you are doing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 93 #3 April 24, 2005 Many people will flip over because their orientation to the horizon is so steep, or even past vertical that they give up on flying their body. You must convince your mind to ignore the orientation to the horizon, and realize that you are barely tracking relative to the air if you dive out and go past vertical. When you are able to realize that you can fly the exit like this, then you will be successful. Also, it helps if you have more confidence than is justified. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 14 #4 April 24, 2005 Have your instructors explained "relative wind" to you so that it makes sense? This concept is primary to making a stable diving exit. It's easier to demostrate in person, but basically it means that, upon exit, you're not falling straight down at 120 mph, but falling across the sky at about 90-100 mph. Straihgt down is not towards the planet, but towards the forward horizon. That's where yur stomach should be pointing. When you do a head high exit from a plane, there's not much change from standing in the door to being stable, head high, on the relative wind, a shift of maybe 30-40 degrees froward from standing straight up. The fact that we lean forward on many exits makes that change in pitch much less. A diving exit make us need to pitch downward, maybe 120 degrees or more, 3 times the rate, to be flat and stable on the relative wind. This faster pitch rate makes it very easy to overrotate, or "flip over". Like a hitting any target, you need to know what you're aiming for. Have an instructor describe and demonstrate the proper exit and body angle for a diving exit from your type aircraft. Then visualize and aim for that pitch angle out the door. If you don't "aim" to be stable, you probably won't hit the "target" body position. I used to imagine diving headfirst down a big kid's slide. Worked for me. I've been able to do diving exits from as low as 1200 feet, no problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites willso 0 #5 April 25, 2005 Thank you for the advice did not get to read these until after I nailed my 3000 and 4000ft hop and pops today. Ended up being my legs were not bent up my arse as they should have been and was not looking at the horizon which caused me to flip. After receiving advise off other jumpers at the my DZ I had two as what was described as perfect dive exits and clean pulls. Bring on B Rels!!! Blue Skies Willso Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dropsloan 0 #6 April 25, 2005 Right on brother! I had problems with that as well. What are you jumping out of? I did my hop & pops out of a C182. I solved my problem mostly by relaxing (sounds crazy) more on exit and imagining flying head up along side of the plane on exit. In stead of worrying about making myself get belly to earth, I just made a big X and let it happen. I let gravity do the work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickDG 23 #7 April 25, 2005 Maybe someone can upload an old PARACHUTIST article called "The First Seven Seconds" by Roger Hull. Nothing since has explained it better . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bob.dino 0 #8 April 25, 2005 QuoteBring on B Rels!!! And beer. Don't forget the beer. I drink Cold . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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happythoughts 0 #2 April 24, 2005 QuoteI have had plenty of advice from legs up ur bum, to arms more out, to arch harder, to keep ur head up etc etc etc!! It sounds like you are receiving good advice. It is possible that you are not coming out with a downward attitude, but perhaps you are diving straight out. This might cause you to barrel roll to the left and end up on your back. Get video of your exit and review it. What you think you are doing may be different from what you are doing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #3 April 24, 2005 Many people will flip over because their orientation to the horizon is so steep, or even past vertical that they give up on flying their body. You must convince your mind to ignore the orientation to the horizon, and realize that you are barely tracking relative to the air if you dive out and go past vertical. When you are able to realize that you can fly the exit like this, then you will be successful. Also, it helps if you have more confidence than is justified. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #4 April 24, 2005 Have your instructors explained "relative wind" to you so that it makes sense? This concept is primary to making a stable diving exit. It's easier to demostrate in person, but basically it means that, upon exit, you're not falling straight down at 120 mph, but falling across the sky at about 90-100 mph. Straihgt down is not towards the planet, but towards the forward horizon. That's where yur stomach should be pointing. When you do a head high exit from a plane, there's not much change from standing in the door to being stable, head high, on the relative wind, a shift of maybe 30-40 degrees froward from standing straight up. The fact that we lean forward on many exits makes that change in pitch much less. A diving exit make us need to pitch downward, maybe 120 degrees or more, 3 times the rate, to be flat and stable on the relative wind. This faster pitch rate makes it very easy to overrotate, or "flip over". Like a hitting any target, you need to know what you're aiming for. Have an instructor describe and demonstrate the proper exit and body angle for a diving exit from your type aircraft. Then visualize and aim for that pitch angle out the door. If you don't "aim" to be stable, you probably won't hit the "target" body position. I used to imagine diving headfirst down a big kid's slide. Worked for me. I've been able to do diving exits from as low as 1200 feet, no problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willso 0 #5 April 25, 2005 Thank you for the advice did not get to read these until after I nailed my 3000 and 4000ft hop and pops today. Ended up being my legs were not bent up my arse as they should have been and was not looking at the horizon which caused me to flip. After receiving advise off other jumpers at the my DZ I had two as what was described as perfect dive exits and clean pulls. Bring on B Rels!!! Blue Skies Willso Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dropsloan 0 #6 April 25, 2005 Right on brother! I had problems with that as well. What are you jumping out of? I did my hop & pops out of a C182. I solved my problem mostly by relaxing (sounds crazy) more on exit and imagining flying head up along side of the plane on exit. In stead of worrying about making myself get belly to earth, I just made a big X and let it happen. I let gravity do the work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #7 April 25, 2005 Maybe someone can upload an old PARACHUTIST article called "The First Seven Seconds" by Roger Hull. Nothing since has explained it better . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #8 April 25, 2005 QuoteBring on B Rels!!! And beer. Don't forget the beer. I drink Cold . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
