Downsizing - am i the only one?

[RossDagley 0]

I'm new. I've got got my first rig ordered. Right now, I'm pretty much only interested in the freefall section of my skydives - the canopy is a method of delivering me to the ground safely and not a lot more.

Am I in the minority for having no desire whatsoever to rush downsizing? What IS the rush? Its risk versus reward. Granted, it means a smaller pack volume and a smaller rig, but hell - I just bought this one - two sizes smaller and i'd need a new container. No thanks. This one was expensive enough.

I've only been on dz.com a few months (and my training is slow because of other factors) but I'm getting bored already with reading posts of people doing stupid things under canopies where wing loading was a factor.

In another post -

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It's so sad it's funny...guess we're all getting kinda numb from having it happen over and over.

There's no disrespect meant, but what can be learned from any discussion on this...

We've been over it... DON'T do that shit!
it will hurt and possibly kill ya

I honestly dont see it. Some desire to 'push the envelope'? Increasing the odds of killing myself isn't 'cool' in my book, its just plain dumb.

sorry for banging on. Frustrated.

[repeter 0]

you say you're not in a rush to downsize.. but as soon as you jump something smaller you'll get hooked..

[RossDagley 0]

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you say you're not in a rush to downsize.. but as soon as you jump something smaller you'll get hooked..

Is it really that simple?

[Linas120 0]

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I'm new. I've got got my first rig ordered. Right now, I'm pretty much only interested in the freefall section of my skydives - the canopy is a method of delivering me to the ground safely and not a lot more.

Am I in the minority for having no desire whatsoever to rush downsizing? What IS the rush?

The rush of downsizing never starts when you have 9 jumps. There simply are too many things to learn and flying smaller canopy definitely is not on the top of that list. When you will have 500 jumps and say that you don't feel any rush about downiszing, it would sound much more credible.

Just wait now. What drives people to downsize you will experience after your first high performance canopy jump

[f1shlips 2]

Yes.

--
drop zone (drop'zone) n. An incestuous sesspool of broken people. -- Attributed to a whuffo girlfriend.

[RossDagley 0]

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Just wait now. What drives people to downsize you will experience after your first high performance canopy jump

I'm gaining weight - I *will* turn this 190 into a HP canopy at this rate

Maybe thats it - just lack of experience. I guess whats made me think about it is I see a few accuracy jumpers at my DZ. And no doubt someone will correct me if I'm wring here, but I don't recall reading about an accuracy jumper burning in under a good canopy... Big, slow canopies. Soft landings. Yep. That'll do

Combine that with reading one too many incidents of "indestructable" people doing stupid things i guess I got thinking.

The impression I have is the 100-300 jump numbers are the danger zones - where I become indestructable etc. Im presuming I wont see it coming either, it'll just sneak up on me, one complacency at a time...

[WrongWay 0]

The "rush" to downsize simply for the sake of downsizing is nothing more than an effort to look cool.

Newer guys in the sport (especially around the 200 jump mark) have a tendency to feel a need to be "special" or "unique". They want to be labeled as a prodigy, and they want to make a name for themselves in the sport before they are ready to support that name with real skills. They want to feel like one of the top dogs, and to do so, they get similar gear, try similar jumps, and of course, get similar canopies.

The fact of the matter is, I think newbies look cooler under a proper wingloading than they do under something they're not ready for. That person may not have a 300 foot swoop, but at least I know that they're honest with themselves and others about their skills, and they're not going to kill me because they tried to impress me.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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The fact of the matter is, I think newbies look cooler under a proper wingloading than they do under something they're not ready for. That person may not have a 300 foot swoop, but at least I know that they're honest with themselves and others about their skills, and they're not going to kill me because they tried to impress me.

Well said. The ones trying so hard to look 'cool' look like nothing more than a bunch of tools most of the time. I find it far more impressive to watch someone under a canopy (whatever size) flying it well (not necessarily fast), doing great patterns and having good landings than someone who's pattern is all screwed up, zipping all over the sky, diggin on every landing, etc with every indication that they have no idea where they are going or what they are doing.

The one's rushing to try to look cool (in their opinion) rarely have the respect from other canopy pilots because they don't deserve it yet.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[skinnyshrek 0]

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The "rush" to downsize simply for the sake of downsizing is nothing more than an effort to look cool.

Newer guys in the sport (especially around the 200 jump mark) have a tendency to feel a need to be "special" or "unique". They want to be labeled as a prodigy, and they want to make a name for themselves in the sport before they are ready to support that name with real skills. They want to feel like one of the top dogs, and to do so, they get similar gear, try similar jumps, and of course, get similar canopies.

The fact of the matter is, I think newbies look cooler under a proper wingloading than they do under something they're not ready for. That person may not have a 300 foot swoop, but at least I know that they're honest with themselves and others about their skills, and they're not going to kill me because they tried to impress me.

Couldn't of said it better. With my jump numbers i still don't think i am ready fro a velo. You don't have to have the cool canopies to be cool. If you want to be good on a canopy start doing accuracy. Put that bastard on a dime. Will make you a better canopy pilot in the long run.

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[tdog 0]

You and I might be in an unique club... I only have 140ish jumps right now, and have no desire to downsize (much) either...

My long term goals are to downsize 20 to 40 sqft to 1.3 WLish... I never see myself with a pocket rocket velo.... But I do see myself as a great pilot able to fly my wing, regardless of WL, the best I can... I love the canopy ride, almost, maybe more than, the freefall...

[NeedToJump 0]

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Couldn't of said it better. With my jump numbers i still don't think i am ready for a velo.

Same here. I jump a Katana 120 loaded at about 1.5:1 and I swoop and have competed in swooping competitions. I have absolutely no desire to jump a velo or anything more agressive than what I fly. I have over 500 jumps on my current canopy and can't *ever* see myself knowing everything there is to know about it. There's always more to do and more to learn. Take your time and learn it all well.

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[skybytch 259]

No. You're not the only one.

Not every jumper wants to go fast. Some of us have even (gasp!) upsized when we realized we may have been under a canopy that was too much for our current ability/risk tolerance.

Whether you ever choose to downsize or not, whether you ever choose to explore swooping or not, it is very important to never stop learning about canopy flight. Take a canopy control course and do an occasional hop and pop to focus on flying the canopy. The more you know about how your canopy reacts to inputs, the more likely you are to survive when things go to shit around you - regardless of your canopy type and/or wingloading.

[Feeblemind 1]

No you are not alone, I am with you. I have no desire to downsize in a hurry. I learned on a 260 triathalon, was a student and until around 65 jumps was on a Fusion230 and Sabre2 230. After a discussion with my instructor and the S,T, & A, I ordered a recommended container and was advised that a pilot 210 would be appropriate (which I have been under for almost 60 jumps).

I plan on taking a canopy control class and jumping my butt off this summer, but will only downsize after conversation with my instructor and S,T, & A. I am sure flying a high performance canopy is a total blast, I just don't want it to be the last thing I do.

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

[flyangel2 2]

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you say you're not in a rush to downsize.. but as soon as you jump something smaller you'll get hooked..

Is it really that simple?

Nope, only if you let the stupid stick take over your common sense thinking.

I'm with Lisa on this one. I have been around this sport for a long time. I am happy with the canopy I have, and do not plan to downsize, even though "guys" have said that I should get a smaller canopy so I can go faster. Why would I want to do that, what if I get a bad spot and have to land out in a small area. Not that it's ever happened before

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[Darius11 12]

Well it depends how you look at skydiving.
For me the canopy part is the best part. If I could do hop & pops all-day and just be at 1000 in the pattern I would be happy.
I do like freefall but being under canopy is just awesome. If you look at the canopy part as just a means to get you do the ground then you won’t understand.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[kevinwhelan 0]

No you are not alone. I jump a PD190 f111 canopy loaded at about 0.85:1 and with just over 100 jumps I wouldnt say I have mastered this canopy. But I have no desire to downsize I am very happy with my canopy even though I have had to sit out a few jumps where the winds were too strong for my light wingloading. I have jumped a shiloute 170 in 20 mph winds and landed fine
but when I did jump in 20 mph winds on my own canopy I landed goiing backwards. Since then anything above 17mph and I sit it out

"be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

[Candy 0]

I’m planning on downsizing this summer, I bought my rig used last year when I started skydiving, I’m flying a Sabre 170 (little big for me). I’m planning on getting a new rig this fall, so I wanted to demo some smaller canopies but only after taking a canopy skills course which I am scheduled to take this weekend in Perris.

I’m downsizing not to go faster, but I’ve been told that a lightly loaded canopy can be just as dangerous, especially in windy conditions, as a too heavily loaded one can be.

Have fun and stay safe.
Candy

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[Reginald 0]

550 jumps loading a Sabre 2, 170 at 1.2 to 1. I’ll jump this canopy through the season, which will put me at 800+ jumps. Then I might downsize to a Sabre 2, 150 loaded at a 1.35 to 1 for another 400 or 500 jumps, which would put me at about 1,300 jumps.

I have watched too many people die or horribly injure themselves to be in a rush to downsize. I can land my canopy within 10 meters of where I want to every time, in any conditions, downwind, in a tight spot, at higher than normal MSL from my home DZ, on hot days, and at new dropzones where I don’t have good visual “way points” in my mind. I can fly it in tight traffic and use all the controls available. I like being able to land it safely where I want every time in any conditions.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[skybytch 259]

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I've been told that a lightly loaded canopy can be just as dangerous, especially in windy conditions, as a too heavily loaded one can be.

If lightly loaded canopies were so dangerous we wouldn't put first jump students under them.

Yes, you can find yourself backing up in higher winds under a lightly loaded canopy. Don't downsize so you can jump in higher winds - backing up isn't the only danger involved in jumping in winds. Instead, choose not to jump in windy conditions.

Personally, when jumping my Spectre (loaded at less than 1.0) I put myself on wind hold when the dz puts students on wind hold. There will always be another day to skydive... as long as I keep making good decisions about when to put myself on an airplane that is.

[MarkM 0]

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Right now, I'm pretty much only interested in the freefall section of my skydives - the canopy is a method of delivering me to the ground safely and not a lot more.

That's because at 9 jumps, it's a challenge to do even that sometimes. I mean, if you can land near the peas and stand it up it was a damn good landing.

But there's a lot more a canopy can do and it's a lot of fun. There are a lot of people who don't rush to downsize, you just don't hear about them much because they're spraining ankles instead of blowing femurs.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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If lightly loaded canopies were so dangerous we wouldn't put first jump students under them.

This cannot be stressed enough. I'm sick and tired of the BULLSHIT info being given to people out there (normally light, small woman) that they're in danger cause they're 'underloading' their canopy.

Lisa summed it up - if you have to downsize to jump in winds you want to jump in, maybe you should reconsider the jump anyway.

Seek new coaches if someone tries to feed you this line of crap.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[skinnyshrek 0]

on a side note i have been a sabre man all my jumping life. Try the nitro the lift is amazing. Have a sabre2 150 and a nitro 135 Anyway, back to topic...TAKE YOUR TIME. The sky will always be there

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[FrancoR 0]

No

I just downsized from a PD 190 to a spectre 170, that should be enough for the next few hundred jumps.

If it does not cost anything you are the product.

[f1shlips 2]

>that should be enough for the next few hundred jumps.

Ok, that doesn't mean its not easy to 'convince' yourself to jump a smaller canopy.

--
drop zone (drop'zone) n. An incestuous sesspool of broken people. -- Attributed to a whuffo girlfriend.

[Marion 0]

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Well it depends how you look at skydiving.
For me the canopy part is the best part. ... If you look at the canopy part as just a means to get you do the ground then you won’t understand.

Enjoying canopy flight and wanting to downsize are two separate things.

I don't think of my canopy as a way to simply get me to the ground, and I still don't understand the constant downsizing urge. Probably half of my jumps recently have been high pulls. I love flying both my body and my canopy. I'm not in a hurry to increase my WL.

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