saxboy 0 #1 July 10, 2005 Hi there! I need your opinion-advice for my first new canopy. Here is the story. i have 38 jumps and i want to buy a PD STILETTO 120. I don't have the money to buy one canopy and then to downsize to another...etc,so i need to buy one canopy to keep it at least 500+ jumps. I have jumped 280,250 PD,170 sabre 2 and i have the skills to fly a Stiletto 120.(I think) All my landings were perfect.So please tell me your opinion because all my friends said to me that i am crazy! Thank you for your time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lisamariewillbe 1 #2 July 10, 2005 listen to your friendsSudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chutem 0 #3 July 10, 2005 TROLL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites towerrat 0 #4 July 10, 2005 You'll be fine. I'm sure your skills are much better than the average guy with 38 jumps. All of your friends just don't understand what a natural you are. I mean hell, you have 38 good landings, what more do they want? I say you skip the stilleto and go straight to a sub 100 cross brace, that way you'll have a little room to grow and learn. If you are not a troll you are a complete jackass.Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #5 July 10, 2005 Quote If you are not a troll you are a complete jackass. What he said. I was all set to give the guy a rational answer, but I think your approach makes more sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popeyefireman 0 #6 July 10, 2005 Okay, Whats a Troll mean in the forums? "I Yam what I Yam" I am not afriad to die, only to die without living. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #7 July 10, 2005 QuoteOkay, Whats a Troll mean in the forums? You know, its' those little furry dolls that..... Ok...really, it's someone who starts a thread or makes a post with something outrageous, just to provoke other people into giving a hot-headed reply. Similar to a person who makes an ethnic slur in a chat room just to see if he can get people to rise to the bait. The idea being that it's better to ignore or out the buttheads than to enable them by arguing with them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites saxboy 0 #8 July 10, 2005 I don't want to argue with someone.!I just ask for your opinion.thats all.Anyway i will buy this canopy.Thanks for your responce. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EvilLurker 2 #9 July 10, 2005 I guess if you weigh 90 pounds or less, you might be okay. If you're much bigger than that, call us from the hospital if you survive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites saxboy 0 #10 July 10, 2005 I am 60 kg 1,65 cm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #11 July 10, 2005 >I am 60 kg 1,65 cm 60kg is 132 pounds. Add 20 lbs for a rig and you're at 152 lbs. That puts your loading at 1.26 to 1, and that's under a poorly-behaved, high performance canopy. The Stiletto was one of the first very high performance canopies. And while it does some things quite well, it does _not_ deal with any carelessness at opening time. If you have one shoulder low, it will spin up and you will have to cut it away. If you don't you'll die. It's also very sensitive to toggles. If you turn low you'll die. The canopy you currently have experience on - a .89 to 1 loaded Sabre 2 - will fly nothing like a Stiletto at your loadings. It will be like going from a tricycle to a mountain bike, and having your first two-wheeler ride down the side of a mountain. Your experience under the 170 will not prepare you for the Stiletto. To safely jump this canopy, a progression like this would work: Sabre 2 170 Pilot 140 Nitro 120 The Nitro will let you get used to HP flight on a canopy that is better behaved at opening time. On each size of canopy, make sure you can do everything on the downsizing checklist - flat and flare turns, rear riser landings, crosswind landings etc. If you try to skip one you will never learn it, because later you will be too scared to try. In terms of time, expect to spend 20-50 jumps on the above canopies if you get good coaching, 100-500 jumps if you do it on your own with only casual help. And even with that progression, you can tell everyone that you're being really aggressive with downsizing because you're a good pilot (and if you take the time to learn how to fly them all, you'll be right!) If you do want to get the Stiletto 120 and jump it right away, make sure your affairs are in order and that you've told your family you love them. Also make sure your family and friends know if you want them to take extraordinary measures to save you - i.e. after you impact, do you want to be kept alive if you're brain dead, that sort of thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #12 July 10, 2005 I need your opinion-advice for my first new canopy. Anyway i will buy this canopy *** In light of your question and the possible serious consequences that may result if you were to possibly make an incorrect choice, you might want to read up for a while prior to your purchase, and / or post. For further study regarding you situation~ Read This! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tso-d_chris 0 #13 July 10, 2005 QuoteI am 60 kg 1,65 cm That translates roughly to 132lbs plus gear equal aproximately 1.3:1 wingloading, which you will not be ready for until you have around 500 jumps. A better choice would be a Sabre2 150 or a Pilot 150, or a Stilletto 170. And all three of those are agressive choices for your level of experience. Any of those three choices will have more than enough performance to require far more than 500 jumps to really explore the entire envelope. If you jump a Stilletto 120 at your early stage, it is a coin toss whetther you will make it to 500 jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #14 July 10, 2005 Saxboy, if you're serious, it's a bad Idea. I can understand you wanting to fly it, but I would be hard pressed to think your friends are really your friends if they don't activley stop you for doing it. I could go into many reasons why but it's pointless to do so. The canopy is way to radical to jump safely at your experience level. The Stiletto is not a tame canopy.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Superman32 0 #15 July 11, 2005 A 120 WOW... It's not about just wingloading. It's also about performance Listen to people with more experience than you and I. Don't get DEAD Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amanda965 0 #16 July 11, 2005 Quote I don't have the money to buy one canopy and then to downsize to another...etc,so i need to buy one canopy to keep it at least 500+ jumps. You say that you dont have the money, however, if you purchase a larger more conservative canopy to jump for a couple hundred jumps, you can most likely break even or lose very little money if you sell it to someone else, then purchase a "newer" used canopy of your choice later. Are you so worried about the money that you are going to risk your life? I cannot believe your DZO or S&TA would even let you jump a canopy that small at their dropzone! Like some of the others have said, think hard about this one or you may not have to do much thinking in the future after that choice....Blue skies and SAFE landings! ~Amanda~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Elisha 1 #17 July 11, 2005 Yeah, I'm jumping a Sabre2-150 right now, but since I want to eventually downsize and be a professional swooper, I might as well just see if I can go directly to the VX 39. Maybe Luigi will just sell me his. I saw his video, so I'm sure it won't be that hard. With around 30 jumps, I asked one of my AFF instructors who was jumping an 84 (maybe a Velocity) what would he advise if I had to jump his 84. What he said? "Pull the reserve immediately - it's a 120. Then you MIGHT live." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matt91078 0 #18 July 11, 2005 I only have 383 jumps and recently downsized from a sabre2 170 that I put almost 300 jumps on to a sabre2 135. The difference between the two is huge even though they are the same style but lessor in square feet. The smaller canopy is so much faster up high and especially down low that if you do not have the skills to fly it, you will really hurt yourself right away, if not kill yourself. I personally believe the switch from my 300+ jumps on the sabre2 170 to a stilletto 120 would be way too much for me to handle even though I am silly and like to do crazy things. I flew the sabre2 150 many times while deciding on which size canopy to go with. The only reason (I believe) I can handle this smaller canopy is because of canopy coaching, a canopy course (Scott Miller's), and many many jumps on the same canopy to gain experience and knowledge so that when I finally decided to move to a smaller wing that I would not panic nor have trouble flying the smaller canopy. In other words, do not move to ANY canopy below a 170, let alone a stilletto, which is elliptical, whereas you've only flown at best a semi-elliptical sabre2. Please don't make the people at your dropzone watch you hit hard. Even if you end up some how walking away, it will stick with them for a long time. That sickening thud, makes me cringe just mentioning it, is the worst thing to see or even feel when the ground shakes beneath your feet. Please rethink what you are wanting to do. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Elisha 1 #19 July 11, 2005 Matt, I think you meant to reply to saxboy, not me. I was being completely faceitous in my reponse. I thought it was obvious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matt91078 0 #20 July 11, 2005 It was obvious. I just didn't feel like scrolling to the top. I thought it was understood I was referring to saxboy and not you. The sarcasm was soooooooooo thick you'd have to be brain dead not to notice. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GravityGirl 0 #21 July 11, 2005 Or, you could buy a properly sized parachute that is used, then put 100 jumps on it, sell it for what you bought it for, buy another used canopy for the same price, put 100 jumps on it..... repeat as necessary. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popeyefireman 0 #22 July 11, 2005 Does anyone know where this guy jumps, if so then just let the DZO know. That may put a stop to him jumping it, at least at the dropzone. "I Yam what I Yam" I am not afriad to die, only to die without living. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #23 July 11, 2005 >if so then just let the DZO know. That may put a stop to him jumping it . . . I doubt it. Most DZO's don't much care. Why get into a screaming match with someone who's just going to go somewhere else and do the same thing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matt91078 0 #24 July 11, 2005 at least is would keep the "bad press" from their dropzone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #25 July 11, 2005 >at least is would keep the "bad press" from their dropzone News reports of a fatality increase student starts; sad but true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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lisamariewillbe 1 #2 July 10, 2005 listen to your friendsSudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #4 July 10, 2005 You'll be fine. I'm sure your skills are much better than the average guy with 38 jumps. All of your friends just don't understand what a natural you are. I mean hell, you have 38 good landings, what more do they want? I say you skip the stilleto and go straight to a sub 100 cross brace, that way you'll have a little room to grow and learn. If you are not a troll you are a complete jackass.Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #5 July 10, 2005 Quote If you are not a troll you are a complete jackass. What he said. I was all set to give the guy a rational answer, but I think your approach makes more sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popeyefireman 0 #6 July 10, 2005 Okay, Whats a Troll mean in the forums? "I Yam what I Yam" I am not afriad to die, only to die without living. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #7 July 10, 2005 QuoteOkay, Whats a Troll mean in the forums? You know, its' those little furry dolls that..... Ok...really, it's someone who starts a thread or makes a post with something outrageous, just to provoke other people into giving a hot-headed reply. Similar to a person who makes an ethnic slur in a chat room just to see if he can get people to rise to the bait. The idea being that it's better to ignore or out the buttheads than to enable them by arguing with them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
saxboy 0 #8 July 10, 2005 I don't want to argue with someone.!I just ask for your opinion.thats all.Anyway i will buy this canopy.Thanks for your responce. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EvilLurker 2 #9 July 10, 2005 I guess if you weigh 90 pounds or less, you might be okay. If you're much bigger than that, call us from the hospital if you survive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
saxboy 0 #10 July 10, 2005 I am 60 kg 1,65 cm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #11 July 10, 2005 >I am 60 kg 1,65 cm 60kg is 132 pounds. Add 20 lbs for a rig and you're at 152 lbs. That puts your loading at 1.26 to 1, and that's under a poorly-behaved, high performance canopy. The Stiletto was one of the first very high performance canopies. And while it does some things quite well, it does _not_ deal with any carelessness at opening time. If you have one shoulder low, it will spin up and you will have to cut it away. If you don't you'll die. It's also very sensitive to toggles. If you turn low you'll die. The canopy you currently have experience on - a .89 to 1 loaded Sabre 2 - will fly nothing like a Stiletto at your loadings. It will be like going from a tricycle to a mountain bike, and having your first two-wheeler ride down the side of a mountain. Your experience under the 170 will not prepare you for the Stiletto. To safely jump this canopy, a progression like this would work: Sabre 2 170 Pilot 140 Nitro 120 The Nitro will let you get used to HP flight on a canopy that is better behaved at opening time. On each size of canopy, make sure you can do everything on the downsizing checklist - flat and flare turns, rear riser landings, crosswind landings etc. If you try to skip one you will never learn it, because later you will be too scared to try. In terms of time, expect to spend 20-50 jumps on the above canopies if you get good coaching, 100-500 jumps if you do it on your own with only casual help. And even with that progression, you can tell everyone that you're being really aggressive with downsizing because you're a good pilot (and if you take the time to learn how to fly them all, you'll be right!) If you do want to get the Stiletto 120 and jump it right away, make sure your affairs are in order and that you've told your family you love them. Also make sure your family and friends know if you want them to take extraordinary measures to save you - i.e. after you impact, do you want to be kept alive if you're brain dead, that sort of thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #12 July 10, 2005 I need your opinion-advice for my first new canopy. Anyway i will buy this canopy *** In light of your question and the possible serious consequences that may result if you were to possibly make an incorrect choice, you might want to read up for a while prior to your purchase, and / or post. For further study regarding you situation~ Read This! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #13 July 10, 2005 QuoteI am 60 kg 1,65 cm That translates roughly to 132lbs plus gear equal aproximately 1.3:1 wingloading, which you will not be ready for until you have around 500 jumps. A better choice would be a Sabre2 150 or a Pilot 150, or a Stilletto 170. And all three of those are agressive choices for your level of experience. Any of those three choices will have more than enough performance to require far more than 500 jumps to really explore the entire envelope. If you jump a Stilletto 120 at your early stage, it is a coin toss whetther you will make it to 500 jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #14 July 10, 2005 Saxboy, if you're serious, it's a bad Idea. I can understand you wanting to fly it, but I would be hard pressed to think your friends are really your friends if they don't activley stop you for doing it. I could go into many reasons why but it's pointless to do so. The canopy is way to radical to jump safely at your experience level. The Stiletto is not a tame canopy.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superman32 0 #15 July 11, 2005 A 120 WOW... It's not about just wingloading. It's also about performance Listen to people with more experience than you and I. Don't get DEAD Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amanda965 0 #16 July 11, 2005 Quote I don't have the money to buy one canopy and then to downsize to another...etc,so i need to buy one canopy to keep it at least 500+ jumps. You say that you dont have the money, however, if you purchase a larger more conservative canopy to jump for a couple hundred jumps, you can most likely break even or lose very little money if you sell it to someone else, then purchase a "newer" used canopy of your choice later. Are you so worried about the money that you are going to risk your life? I cannot believe your DZO or S&TA would even let you jump a canopy that small at their dropzone! Like some of the others have said, think hard about this one or you may not have to do much thinking in the future after that choice....Blue skies and SAFE landings! ~Amanda~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #17 July 11, 2005 Yeah, I'm jumping a Sabre2-150 right now, but since I want to eventually downsize and be a professional swooper, I might as well just see if I can go directly to the VX 39. Maybe Luigi will just sell me his. I saw his video, so I'm sure it won't be that hard. With around 30 jumps, I asked one of my AFF instructors who was jumping an 84 (maybe a Velocity) what would he advise if I had to jump his 84. What he said? "Pull the reserve immediately - it's a 120. Then you MIGHT live." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matt91078 0 #18 July 11, 2005 I only have 383 jumps and recently downsized from a sabre2 170 that I put almost 300 jumps on to a sabre2 135. The difference between the two is huge even though they are the same style but lessor in square feet. The smaller canopy is so much faster up high and especially down low that if you do not have the skills to fly it, you will really hurt yourself right away, if not kill yourself. I personally believe the switch from my 300+ jumps on the sabre2 170 to a stilletto 120 would be way too much for me to handle even though I am silly and like to do crazy things. I flew the sabre2 150 many times while deciding on which size canopy to go with. The only reason (I believe) I can handle this smaller canopy is because of canopy coaching, a canopy course (Scott Miller's), and many many jumps on the same canopy to gain experience and knowledge so that when I finally decided to move to a smaller wing that I would not panic nor have trouble flying the smaller canopy. In other words, do not move to ANY canopy below a 170, let alone a stilletto, which is elliptical, whereas you've only flown at best a semi-elliptical sabre2. Please don't make the people at your dropzone watch you hit hard. Even if you end up some how walking away, it will stick with them for a long time. That sickening thud, makes me cringe just mentioning it, is the worst thing to see or even feel when the ground shakes beneath your feet. Please rethink what you are wanting to do. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #19 July 11, 2005 Matt, I think you meant to reply to saxboy, not me. I was being completely faceitous in my reponse. I thought it was obvious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matt91078 0 #20 July 11, 2005 It was obvious. I just didn't feel like scrolling to the top. I thought it was understood I was referring to saxboy and not you. The sarcasm was soooooooooo thick you'd have to be brain dead not to notice. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #21 July 11, 2005 Or, you could buy a properly sized parachute that is used, then put 100 jumps on it, sell it for what you bought it for, buy another used canopy for the same price, put 100 jumps on it..... repeat as necessary. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popeyefireman 0 #22 July 11, 2005 Does anyone know where this guy jumps, if so then just let the DZO know. That may put a stop to him jumping it, at least at the dropzone. "I Yam what I Yam" I am not afriad to die, only to die without living. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #23 July 11, 2005 >if so then just let the DZO know. That may put a stop to him jumping it . . . I doubt it. Most DZO's don't much care. Why get into a screaming match with someone who's just going to go somewhere else and do the same thing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matt91078 0 #24 July 11, 2005 at least is would keep the "bad press" from their dropzone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #25 July 11, 2005 >at least is would keep the "bad press" from their dropzone News reports of a fatality increase student starts; sad but true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
