AAD Brands

[Gravitymaster 0]

Suppose the DZO at your Dropzone suddenly announced that all jumper must have a Vigil AAD. He said that his reason was because in his/her opinion he/she felt the Vigil was a safer AAD. He/she said he felt that less maintenence made it more reliable.

[nate_1979 9]

how far fetched are we going to get with this... I'd take my cypress 2 to another DZ.

edit to add: course, I live in SoCal, so that's easy to do

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[Mostly_Harmless 0]

I have a vigil, I am set to go.

_________________________________________
www.myspace.com/termvelocity

[Gravitymaster 0]

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how far fetched are we going to get with this... I'd take my cypress 2 to another DZ.

Oh, don't think for a minute it's far fetched. Maybe not for a Cypres, but there is a feeling among some DZO's that if the Vigil has more problems like it has had in the past that jumpers may not be allowed to use them at some DZs. There are also DZ's where the Cypres and the Vigil are the only AAD's permitted.

[Frenchy68 0]

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Suppose the DZO at your Dropzone suddenly announced that all jumper must have a Vigil AAD. He said that his reason was because in his/her opinion he/she felt the Vigil was a safer AAD. He/she said he felt that less maintenence made it more reliable.

I'd think you're slowly leading to an actual case of "use this or get off my DZ". What's the actual product involved?

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[nate_1979 9]

I could see the "it must be a modern AAD" requirement if they want to require AADs... To prevent FXC models or something... But I just dont see anyone saying I cant use my Cypress, .. but then again who knows what the future holds..

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[livendive 8]

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Suppose the DZO at your Dropzone suddenly announced that all jumper must have [any sort of] AAD.

Gear decisions are personal. I'd leave regardless of what type he required.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[FrenchyDiver 0]

I have an AAD and regardless whether it is the brand required at that particular DZ I go somewhere else
I would not have a problem with it if the DZ policy would be "modern AAD required"

Hispas Brothers President
HISPA #2,

[FrenchyDiver 0]

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I'd think you're slowly leading to an actual case of "use this or get off my DZ". What's the actual product involved?

I know of one particular DZ were it is the case. The "brand" required is on their website

Hispas Brothers President
HISPA #2,

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I have an AAD and regardless whether it is the brand required at that particular DZ I go somewhere else
I would not have a problem with it if the DZ policy would be "modern AAD required"

The Argus is a "Modern AAD" and it is banned at some DZ's. Actually "banned is probably not the best word. Lets just say there are DZs where the Cypres and the Vigil are the only AADs allowed.

BTW how ya doing buddy? Where are you jumping these days?

[FrenchyDiver 0]

When I am due to a new AAD I would strongly consider either Argus, Vigil or Cypress 2

I am doing well I do miss you all

Hispas Brothers President
HISPA #2,

[IanHarrop 37]

Could this be due to Argus still being in development/testing and not yet released for general use?

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[Elisha 1]

Since we are in the opinion mode, what about the Astra?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Could this be due to Argus still being in development/testing and not yet released for general use?

I don't know about the Argus specifically. I just used it as an example. The point is that currently there are DZs that only allow Cypres and Vigil and apparently some that only allow Cypres. No other AAD is permitted. I wonder if this is a growing trend?

[tigra 0]

ditto! If there were a clear and well documented safety concern, I *might* feel differently.

[livendive 8]

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Since we are in the opinion mode, what about the Astra?

If my DZO required that I jump an Astra, you're damn right I'd leave!!!

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[feuergnom 22]

as long as i could jump with my beloved KAP 3 i wouldn't mind - no steenkin electronics just good old commie mechanics in there

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[Squeak 17]

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as long as i could jump with my beloved KAP 3 i wouldn't mind - no steenkin electronics just good old commie mechanics in there

Where I learned to skydive they still have KAP3s on their student gear (main canopies),
fortunately they also have Cypres on their reserves

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[txhoss 0]

Damn ... should always read before i post. I put would sell my Cypress. That is because i would like to sell my cypress 1 and get a vigil but i WOULD NOT do it on a demand from the DZO.

Have Rig will travel ...

[Elisha 1]

No, I mean what is the reputation/you opinion of an Astra?

[livendive 8]

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No, I mean what is the reputation/you opinion of an Astra?

I've seen Cypres fires, but never a Cypres misfire. I've seen Astra's fire for user mistakes that are impossible with a Cypres (turning it on in the plane), and I've seen them plain misfire. There was a fatality within the last year that involved a jumper impacting at terminal who reportedly turned his Astra off then back on in freefall. Granted a suicide is possible with any kind of gear, but you couldn't possibly turn off a Cypres in freefall by accident.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[FrenchyDiver 0]

 I've seen Cypres fires, but never a Cypres misfire.

Back in the early 90's when Cypres was introduced, they did have their issues, such as misfires which have since been corrected
After all it was a brand new product, and as such had its own flaws. Could you believe that none of us wanted one? We didn't want to become test jumpers. Very much the same opinion that we are having now when a new AAD is released.

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There was a fatality within the last year that involved a jumper impacting at terminal who reportedly turned his Astra off then back on in freefall.

I see your point but then again, this is due (the way I read your post) to a human factor and not to a device failure.

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but you couldn't possibly turn off a Cypres in freefall by accident.

No it cannot, however it can be turned on at a different place than the DZ with a different elevation. As it appeared to be the case in a recent fatality in CA.
I suppose than someone willing to commit suicide, could do just that. (I hope it won't happen of course.)

A jumper can turn it off just before donning the rig and nobody (meaning other people) will be the wiser.

Vigil had a shielding issue that was causing misfires but has been reportedly fixed since.

Now, I haven't actually seen an Astra so far so my question is (genuine curiosity, honest), do you think that it could be accidentally turned off? With Cypress and Vigil it's near impossible.

Hispas Brothers President
HISPA #2,

[BlindBrick 0]

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do you think that it could be accidentally turned off?

Theoretically, yes, just like a Cypres or Vigil could theoretically be turned off by accident. However, like them, if properly installed it wouldn't be easy at all. Typical installation of a Astra control unit places it on the main lift web at a point which is not a common area to rub against anything, this combined with the large plastic shield that guards the switch makes it extremely difficult to accidently get to the switch.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[tigra 0]

There's a reason you haven't seen an ASTRA. They are (were) worn in the front of the rig near the shoulder strap if I'm not mistaken, and yes, I *think* they were easily enough switched on and off that its *possible* (not likely) one could be switched off accidently. I've only known a handful of people who jumped them, all but one regretted the decision to buy it, and I haven't seen one on a rig in years.

[pope 0]

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Suppose the DZO at your Dropzone suddenly announced that all jumper must have a Vigil AAD. He said that his reason was because in his/her opinion he/she felt the Vigil was a safer AAD. He/she said he felt that less maintenence made it more reliable.

I'm sorry but I think I may have missed hearing about any cases of the CYPRES actually being the cause of any skydiving incident EVER.

That dzo would be slitting his own throat IMO. I think the Vigil has a fairly long way to go before proving itself as Airtec's CYPRES has.