Skydiving without AAD's

[deaffreeflyer 0]

I did 20 jumps without one. But now I would prefer to jump with one cos I was almost knocked out a long time ago.

[Peej 0]

I bought my rig without an AAD and jumped for a few months without one while i looked for a used one. it's currently in for its hal life service and i'm jumping without it no problem. I normally try to skydive like it's not there anyway.

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[Tonto 1]

My first 1000 dives were in the pre AAD era, including my 1st freefall and and about 2000 dives after that.

AAD's are a bother. There're endless time spent turning them on, having repacks due to error codes, replacing batteries etc. My AAD timexed on 12 years, and has not yet been replaced.

I see so many people spending money on an AAD when they still have incompatible gear. Be your own goalkeeper. It's all about narrowing the angles.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Dumpster 0]

My own equipment is Cypres equipped, and I keep it maintained so it's doubtful I'd ever my jump it without the AAD in there.

However, I've used other folks' rigs not equipped with an AAD without reservation.

No biggie.

FWIW, I don't use an RSL, either.

Edited to add:

Seatbelts in car - Yes, if so equipped.

Helmet on Motorcycle - Only if required by law.

Helmet when jumping - Fullface for RW, open face for everything else.

Audible alti - Most, but not all of the time.

Eating food off the floor - 30-second rule. But never off the garage floor. Unless it's pizza, and it lands topping-side up.

Easy Does It

[2fat2fly 0]

Sure, I just got back from WFFC where I didn't have my AAD (out for service) or RSL (jumping borrowed main and didn't swap out risers), Evidently I think both are important or I wouldn't have purchased them in the first place, but neither is critical.

I am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried

[vt1977 0]

Yes, and I have done it both times my Cypres has been for a service. Not a big deal!

Vicki

[Squeak 17]

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Helmet on Motorcycle - Only if required by law.

Helmet when jumping - Fullface for RW, open face for everything else.

Audible alti - Most, but not all of the time.

Eating food off the floor - 30-second rule. But never off the garage floor. Unless it's pizza, and it lands topping-side up.

I use a 10 second rule

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[skypuppy 1]

About 2400 of my 2650 were without an AAD. A while back I was on a demo team that required it. When I had to give the rig back I kept the cypres but never installed it. Now I also have an astra, but so far I haven't bothered installing it either. The only time I use one right now is doing tandems....

I'm a rigger so I could install it myself -- I just haven't bothered.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[outlawphx 1]

I've got 500 jumps without a Cypres, and I just finally bought one.

[thegreekone 0]

One of the nicest guys I ever met was Tom Piras. I will never forget the day I opened Skydiving Magazine and read that he went in. Not only a great jumper but someone who gave a lot back, like jumping wiht this zoomie way back when. He was hit by a low time jumper and was stunned for a few and when he came to and dumped he only got line stretch.

Would I make a jump without an AAD, probably. But I would take extra time to scrutinize type of jump and who I was jumping with.

[Scrumpot 1]

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But I would take extra time to scrutinize type of jump and who I was jumping with.

Which you would NOT do otherwise either with, or BECAUSE of your Cypres when you do have one?

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Designer 0]

I've been skydiving for 30 yrs without an AAD.Guess if my home DZ started requiring me to have 1,I probably would get 1?Or retire!

[Trae 1]

Thanks for the answers. I feel better now knowing that every one out there (at least DZ.commas) is not totally addicted to luvin' their Cypres more than the sport.
There appears to be a trend to make AAD's totally compulsive ..er I mean compulsory.

A little trick if you're being forced to AAD yourself ..slip a very good colour photocopy of the button bit into the claer placcy sleeve. Amazing who doesn't pick it up. (snigger)

Compulsory Tandem AAD's ----OK.
Compulsory student AAD's -----OK

I'd prefer one on my main rather than my reserve.

I wonder how Cypres has avoided a major law -suit by not providing units with a cut-away system as well.
Dumping a reserve into a mal is not a very good design option in my books.

Does any-one know how many people Cypree have killed by inadvertent activations or by prematurely putting the reserve into a malfunctioning main?

This is not intended as a 'get hot under the collar' trip I just think there is a degree of Volvo driver danger here...as in "I'm safe now I have an AAD so I don't have to try as hard to be safe now" type logic tail-spin.

Cheers

[Nightingale 0]

No, I wouldn't. I promised my dad that I would always use an AAD back when I first started jumping, and I keep my promises.

[dharma1976 0]

I do all the time

in fact most of the people I jump with do

I even know a guy who was knocked out by a tracker from his jump

he woke up around 2 grand

Cheers

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[FrenchyDiver 0]

I have jumped many times without one in the past. Now I jump with one. I would do jumps without while its being inspected/serviced. In my opinion an AAD is an added insurance, but I do jump as if I did not have one.

Hispas Brothers President
HISPA #2,

[hopnhook 0]

I bought a CYRES back in 1995…5 years and ~1000 jumps into the sport. I have jumped without it since during service periods, and will do it again.

Quick Story:
I have never been one to intentionally pull low, but there was one time, in my pre CYRES days, when I did find myself at around 1200ft (unintentionally) and threw out my main (cuz I’m a good packer (sarcasm))…landed uneventfully. I realize I did not follow the BSRs or recommended emergency altitudes (chop by 1800, pull reserve by 1600) and should have gone straight to the reserve at that altitude. That jump scared the sh*t out of me, and even more after I got an AAD and thought more about how that same reaction could have killed me if I had the AAD on that jump…two canopies out (I don’t want this one, especially that low). The point here is that I had to reevaluate some of my emergency situations (low pull, bail out, etc), and become AAD aware…even though you are supposed to set it and forget it!

TC.

[skydiverton 0]

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I wonder how Cypres has avoided a major law -suit by not providing units with a cut-away system as well.
Dumping a reserve into a mal is not a very good design option in my books.

Does any-one know how many people Cypree have killed by inadvertent activations or by prematurely putting the reserve into a malfunctioning main?

This is not intended as a 'get hot under the collar' trip I just think there is a degree of Volvo driver danger here...as in "I'm safe now I have an AAD so I don't have to try as hard to be safe now" type logic tail-spin.

Cheers

Well if you are stil under a malfunction at 750ft (decending over 35m/sec). You already screwed up yourself. Your AAD gives you a last change. If you breakaway at this point you are rather sure you are going to die!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit,
Especially when you are jumping a sport rig

[jannu 0]

why not? just did twice this morning...

Used to have a cypres2 on my old rig.. not anymore.. If I had the money I'd probably buy one...

I'm comfortable without it... don't really even think about it. Sometimes I go on a jump with people who I don't know so well (I mean their flying) and remind them not to kick me on my head.. pretty please

[bert_man 0]

I've been jumping without one since I got off of student status. Had one or two rather close calls with other people in the air, but I haven't lost track of alti yet (knocking on wood).

If I could set aside the extra cheese to get one, I would. At this point, I can't afford one, so why sweat it?

-Ghetto
"The reason death cannot frighten me, is because life has cured me of fear."
Web Design
Cleveland Skydiving

[mdrejhon 8]

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STRUT hang, no head banging required

If I fly the 182, yes. But not on the 206.
Then again, the 206 does not have the step that the 182 has, less opportunities to accidentally bang my head in a fumbled hop-and-pop.

Not like I'd fumble. But I'll get the hell out of it in a diving, burning, doomed airplane at 1500 feet with no AAD, no problem.

[mdrejhon 8]

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Eating food off the floor - 30-second rule. But never off the garage floor. Unless it's pizza, and it lands topping-side up.

Kitchen floor - 3 second rule. (Lot of foot traffic)
Living room floor - 30 second rule.
Bathroom floor - never.

[Trae 1]

in reply to-Well if you are stil under a malfunction at 750ft (decending over 35m/sec). You already screwed up yourself. Your AAD gives you a last change. If you breakaway at this point you are rather sure you are going to die!

First off a 750' manual cuatway at terminal velocity is VERY survivable .. certainly not time to give up.

Some maths?

One Nasty Little Scenario.
1000' main deployment- (whoops)
2 seconds later not opened ?--you're at -600'
Cutaway reserve activation....1 second....400'

2 seconds later not opened .....0'

In this situation your AAD could possible kill you by putting the reserve into you main.

I know a lot of you are closed to such thoughts but if AAD's are going to get better and smarter I feel such issues need adressing not just dismissed by the "well we gave you a second chance.. what more do you want?" type arguments.

I'm just wondering if having the AAD makes it more likely for you to be in such a situation? ...due to you being less cautious 'cause ya got an AAD to think for you when you don't for some reason. If this is the case you're scaring me by being so dependent on an electrical gadget.

I've noticed that the incident and fatality rates don't really seem to have improved that much since AAD's have become common place. If anything they seem to have increased -markedly.
I'm guessing ( not the same as assuming! ) this is due to a drop in the training standards due to an over reliance on AAD's & the over commercialisation of sport skydiving...and yeah I suppose more people do skydive now ????

Go low comps before BASE gave go low types an outlet may well have altered the stats somewhat.

Perhaps some-one with a flair for statistics and an open mind could help out here?

I think AAD's are a great invention... just think we deserve the manufacturers to continue improving them... like by providing an ACAD(auto cut-away device )....this should be too easy and would create a whole new market for electrical/pyrotechnical dependency.

Then they could work on an auto flare device for student and reserve use ....and no I'm not joking

[kelpdiver 2]

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Then again, the 206 does not have the step that the 182 has, less opportunities to accidentally bang my head in a fumbled hop-and-pop.

Mark - there are two variants of the 206, one of which is nearly identical to the 182 wrt the door and step. The other, the 206-U?, has the big fold up door in the back and the great view on the way up.

I personally find the door easier to quickly get out stable, but it does take longer to get to it to initiate.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I've noticed that the incident and fatality rates don't really seem to have improved that much since AAD's have become common place. If anything they seem to have increased -markedly.
I'm guessing ( not the same as assuming! ) this is due to a drop in the training standards due to an over reliance on AAD's & the over commercialisation of sport skydiving...and yeah I suppose more people do skydive now ????

The annual death count has been trending downward, so if the population has grown, then you definitely need to rethink.

And there no question that deaths from a problem the Cypres is trying to solve have virtually been eliminated. There is no marked increase in anything related. Overreliance on an AAD doesn't cause people to hook in, but swooping is practically a different sport.