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diablopilot

Would you let a manufacturer assemble and pack your gear?

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Well? Do you feel that confident or would you want an independant rigger to examine ther work done to ensure QC was doing their job?


Edit: Assume the gear is either brand new, or has been to the manufacturer for major repair/service.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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I always had my rigger assemble/pack my gear when it came back from modification and/or was just purchased. It's not so much I "don't trust the manufacturer" as it was "I don't trust UPS/Fed-Ex/any random person who might have had their hands on it." Too many unknowns for me.

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I let Aerodyne assemble and pack my rig --- who would know better how to pack there own container, reserve and main then the ones who make it.

Now if I bought a rig from Square 1/ Paragear/ any of the other "gear stores" I would want it inspected by the one I trust ---- no offense "gear stores"


The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

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>who would know better how to pack there own container, reserve
>and main then the ones who make it.

I've seen some pretty bad reserve packjobs from manufacturers. Keep in mind that often it's not master riggers who are building and packing these things.

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who would know better how to pack there own container, reserve and main then the ones who make it.



What about the idea that the manufacturer could miss something upon inspection. It can and does happen.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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Yeah well 2 weeks after i got it my Vigil came in and my rigger reinspected everything (I knew that it would be repacked within 3 weeks) and I personally unpacked the main and did line checks and the other checks before jumping it.

I trusted myself and people who are trained to make that second canopy open the way it should.


The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

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I've seen mistakes from even the top manufacturers, lately a misrouted line attached at the manufacturer (the cascades were intertwined, no I won't say which, it happens).

I do my main personally. And I want to see the original assembly of the rest right there with my rigger (both riggers I use are flawless and do a great job - and good friends). After that, I trust my rigger for regular maintenance. If the detach the main to pack reserves, I'll unpack it and do a line check also (even if the reattached and pack the main anyway), I'm not interested in a twisted riser or landing it backwards and that's my responsibility, not my rigger's - it's the main, not the reserve.

The manufacturers and the gear shops have a lot to do and you don't know if the guy that touched your rig last is the 'new guy' or 'rushed it out' or what.

Any position where one doesn't expect to be responsible for themselves is plain wrong.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Yep. When I bought my Wings, my main, reserve, and cypress had been sent to them and they packed it all and I jumped it. And guess what? It worked. :P:D
Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

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Huh. I've had 5 new rigs so far, and had all of them assembled at the factory.

I've met the folks who assembled them, and it just didn't occur to me to not trust them with it, like I trusted them to manufacture it.

You make a good point, JP, is it the one you intended? Why would anybody buy a rig from a manufacturer that they wouldn't trust to assemble the rig?

This looks like another one of those things that comes from high jump numbers and low years in the sport (me). I wasn't aware that (is it most?) manufacturers do a poor job of assembly. Redundant gear-checking is always good, but I wasn't aware that some folks think it was considered a poor practice to jump gear assembled at the factory.

How about you? Would you jump gear assembled at the factory?

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I didn't buy my equipment new (except for my AAD) so the assemble/pack question didn't come up.

My main had just come back from a reline/full inspection at PD and one of the steering lines wasn't bartacked down. Turned out to not be a huge deal and the finger trap held for about 50 jumps, but it did make me realize "inspectors aren't perfect," and that I should have had it independently inspected by a rigger.

My AAD also had problems (purchased new) that were identified after the first repack (but that could have caused me problems before). Again, likely a QC problem on that particular unit.

So, it's made me a bit skeptical. Which I think is probably a good attitude.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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How about you? Would you jump gear assembled at the factory?



Absolutly not.

I have seen rigging or construction errors from EVERY manufacturer in the business. Some are minor. Wrong colors, wrong options. Some are major. Missed 4 point on a MLW or on a main riser, damaged Reserve P/C, reserve toggle not attached. These are just some examples of what I've seen and from manufacturers I respect as well. I won't point fingers because mistakes happen. But it is my firm belief that an independant rigger is there to catch those thing. One more link in the chain.

I trust many manufacturers to build me a high quality product, but I also trust that mistakes can and will happen. I personaly inspect all of my gear whether a riggers gonna pack it for me or I'm doing it myself.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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Keep in mind that often it's not master riggers who are building and packing these things.



Keep in mind I've seen some of the worst pack jobs come from a "Master" Rigger, and also some pretty bad repairs that came from a master rigger as well. Some of the best pack jobs and best repairs (legal or not) have come from senior riggers that are way more qualified than their title shows. (queue the "then get the master rating" argument here)

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(from voodew1)who would know better how to pack there own container, reserve and main then the ones who make it



Many riggers in the field have schooled the manufacturers on their own equipment. Manufacturers are not all knowing but good manufacturers will incorparate the suggestions from riggers in the field. Some do it right away, others take years to figure it out. Boggles the mind sometimes.

Does anyone know where that rigging blunder page is that shows a rig that came from the manufacturer mis assembled? An entire line group was routed outside the slider... on a reserve. It was pictured in skydiving magazine many years ago.

Before this post reaches the way too long to read state, I'll stop.
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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I love my Wings, and I trust Ankie. She had all my stuff put together and shipped to the location I would be using the gear for the first time.

Again, I trust Ankie, but I don't know who at her company packed my reserve, and I know and love my rigger (Yes, HooknSwoop is the best). After I jumped my new gear for a weekend and then headed back to my home state, I called Hook, and set up a time for him to repack my reserve. Naturally he didn't find anything wrong, but it was peace of mind for me.
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

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I prefer for my rig to be packed and maintained at the manufacturer...

The only riggers who have packed my 3 different Infinities have been Jeff Bell or Kellyf at Velocity... and also my first rig by the other Jeff who was working at Velocity at the time. All of them are riggers...and I have used thier pack jobs 3 times now. I trust them implicitly.:)
My old backup rig... the Javelin... was packed by Ralph..in Oregon who I dot some of my gear from... never had to use it. He did convert some stuff for me.. and since he is a master rigger.. I trust him with my life as well

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What about the idea that the manufacturer could miss something upon inspection. It can and does happen.



After reading about errors made by Riggers in general, I wouldn't honestly think the mfr would be any more prone to miss something than any other loft.

I believe it all boils down to the level of commitment to quality and detail of the individual Rigger rather than where they work.

G. Jones

"I've never been quarantined. But the more I look around, the more I think it might not be a bad idea."

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After reading about errors made by Riggers in general, I wouldn't honestly think the mfr would be any more prone to miss something than any other loft.




Ah, but an independant set of eyes is probably going to add another level of security to the situation. No?
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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I had the first brand new rig I ever bought, a Racer with a Pegasus and a Swift reserve, assembled and packed by Jump Shack. On about my 80th jump on the Pegasus I had a malfunction. I remember thinking..."You know, I don't even know if there's a reserve in this container." as I peeled and pulled.

Needless to say the reserve opened just fine but I would never have a new rig come from the manufacturer assembled and packed again. I would have no problem with it going to my rigger, Aidan Walters, who lives in a different city but I want to either inspect everything myself or have it inspected and assembled by someone I know and trust.
--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

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I've never owned a rig where I didn't modify something.


This isn't mine but look at the pilot chute handle in the picture attached.. (Picture courtesy of another dz dot commer)

There is no reason at all to make a handle like this. It should be sewn all the way down to the pilot chute so the bridle can't get around it.

After years of manufacturing, products like this are still being made.
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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Well, 2 people at our dz recently bought a "complete rig" (new rig/2parachutes/cypres II,& assembly) from a Florida company. Both rigs showed up today. Apparently, assembly at this business means that they are all wrapped in their own plastic bag. So I guess these jumpers don't have to worry about the manufacturer assembling their rig.(Just have to worry about getting a refund on the assembly that they paid for.)

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Nice thread JP...what gave you the inspiration?:P

How about if the rig has a Skyhook? I would "think" that a rigger employed by the sole manufacturer of the skyhook has packed 100's more skyhook equipped reserves than any other rigger in the country...

I would also "think" that a rigger working for a manufacturer would best know how to pack and load a reserve tray for their particular model that would allow for riser covers to close right, etc.

This is just how I would "think" it works...obviously JP's "real world" experience means more than my mental deduction though. And I can definately see the arguement for the unbiased, unaffiliated second check of stitching etc.
Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

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I was told of a container that was glued but not stitched on key components... The "out of state gear rigger" missed it and it lasted a jump before it started to fail and the local rigger and jumper caught the problems before she would have jumped again. My rigger told me this story, he was the first hand witness, as he was QCing my new rig and saying, "never trust anything"... I now believe it is best to have a 3rd set of eyes on a brand new rig...

So no, I would not let the manufacture pack my rig.

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I have 3 people I trust assembling my gear and/or packing my reserve.
Myself, my rigger Alan (who was training me to be a rigger btw), and Mike Forsythe. Luckily, when I got my new container, Mike was still with Jumpshack, and assembled my rig with my nylon before sending it to me. Now, it's still those 3, even though Mike is no longer with JumpShack.
It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

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Ah, but an independant set of eyes is probably going to add another level of security to the situation. No?



Absolutely no argument there!

I would like to think that any Rigger would approach all the gear he services as if he were the only one to ever inspect it, regardless of whether he works for the mfr.

That being said...we don't live in an ideal world, and I'll take all the eyes I can get to inspect mine!;)

G. Jones

"I've never been quarantined. But the more I look around, the more I think it might not be a bad idea."

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look at the pilot chute handle in the picture attached



Damn that looks dangerous! :o

Was that shipped from a current manufacturer?

G. Jones

"I've never been quarantined. But the more I look around, the more I think it might not be a bad idea."

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