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"You white people are crazy!"

B|



I had this discussion last Sunday with a black friend of mine and his response was.......and I quote.....

"Them CRACKERS is crazy"....Maybe he's right!;)
Anvil Brother #69

Sidelined with a 5mm C5-C6 herniated disk...
Back2Back slammers and 40yr old fat guys don't mix!

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I've posted this story on here before, but when I was making plans to do my first tandem, I asked tons of people to come with me, including almost everyone in my office. A black woman in the office looked me straight in the eye with a somewhat surprised look on her face and said, "Black people don't do stuff like that." She was not joking a bit, and I think she might have thought I was an idiot for not knowing it already.



I work with a black girl (she's about the "whitest" black girl you could meet, though, and a lesbian on top of that!) and she said essentially the same thing, and so did a black guy I work with. They like to make a sort-of joke about it, but they insist that black people don't do stuff they could get killed at.

Yeah, so that's why she bought herself a NINJA 650! :S
(Well, it was stolen after just a month, so she's back to where the most death-defying thing she does is drive on freakin' I-95...)

That said, I saw some black people out at Clewiston last Sunday, and I think one or several of them had just done tandems, not sure.
(At that airport, there's really nothing else that they could have been doing out there...)

Blue skies,
-Jeffrey
-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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I'd love to see more skydivers in general and a greater ethnic diversity making up our numbers, although I can think of one or two skydivers who would not like to see more Asians jumping.



I don't find that I care one way or the other. People who want to jump, jump.

I don't understand "wanting" to see more of any "racial group" jump. For one thing, I would prefer a world in which we all just see each other as other-freakin'-human-beings. Why bother paying attention to the ethnic or racial breakdown of who does what? On the one hand, we're supposed to treat each other without distinction based on race, and on the other hand, we're focusing on it? What's the deal with that?!

I would go as far as saying that I disagree with a policy that seeks to artificially induce those of any race, ethnicity or culture to do things that they are not naturally just deciding to do on their own.

If whites don't want to do this, so be it.
If blacks don't want to do this, so be it.

It's not legitimate to say that such and such race is "underrepresented" in a given field. "There aren't a lot of black architects. They're 15% of the population but only 1.7% of the architects..." SO? What drives a so-called "need" for the number of people in any given field or activity to be matched to their percentage of the overall population?

YES, I have noticed a dearth of blacks in skydiving. But there's no mandate to go out and recruit blacks to skydiving. They know it exists. If they want to, they can come and try it.

-Jeffrey
-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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"You white people are crazy!"

B|



I had this discussion last Sunday with a black friend of mine and his response was.......and I quote.....

"Them CRACKERS is crazy"....Maybe he's right!;)



Amazing. What would happen if the same sort of comment was made by a white person about "those things that them black people do"? >:( Suddenly it's a racist comment, right?

Well, I guess it's the burden I have to bear for the privilege of being... well, the working-poor. We whites European-descended males get to be the fair target of all kinds of cracks. Yay. :|

-Jeffrey
-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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"Black people don't do stuff like that."



Two of my coworkers said the exact same thing....



Yep. It's amazing to me that black people themselves seem so willing to tell us what "black people don't do" -- but if god forbid a white person tried to speak in generalities about black people, it's suddenly racist. "Black people have those thudding, distorted bass woofers in their cars, and they dress up cheapass cars with expensive rims and decals and stereos and spoilers." Well, I see this PLENTY here in Florida, and 9 out of 10 people I see with it are black. If I observe it, suddenly that's racist, as I understand it. *sigh*

Alright, anyway, peace out.

-Jeffrey
-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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I have to agree to the last spokesman.

feminism is quite similar. The women are trying to make the world more equal but while they are at it they make us look like wimps and raising young boys to be wimps. The situation has turned almost 180 degrees. IMO

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Yep. It's amazing to me that black people themselves seem so willing to tell us what "black people don't do" -- but if god forbid a white person tried to speak in generalities about black people, it's suddenly racist. "Black people have those thudding, distorted bass woofers in their cars, and they dress up cheapass cars with expensive rims and decals and stereos and spoilers." Well, I see this PLENTY here in Florida, and 9 out of 10 people I see with it are black. If I observe it, suddenly that's racist, as I understand it. *sigh*



Sorry, but your statement about cars is kind of racist. You said 9 out of 10 cars like that are driven by blacks...but out of all the blacks you see on the road, how many have that kind of car? Maybe you're just not noticing the blacks who drive nice cars with normal stereo systems. If only 1 in 10 blacks have cars like that, then your statement that black people have those thudding cars is inaccurate. Not to mention the fact that your sample is limited to your home area. To make a generalization like that based on what you see in your home area is generally gonna raise the racism flag.

The statement that "black don't do that kind of thing" seems to be supported by the facts. There are not many blacks in skydiving, no matter where you go. So that's not really a racist statement.

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Between you and PJ... I can hear the clock to SC calling.

Give up on the good old days when you could say negative things about black people and women and have people "understand". The sting of pride you feel in debates such as these are a fraction of what any member of the population who is not a heterosexual white male has felt for 1000's of years.

If it truely does turn 180 degrees - It'll be our turn again in 20 000 years time. Breathe deep and show some resolve, or move with the times.

t
It's the year of the Pig.

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Im not saying people shouldn´t treat each other equally but in some countries, doesn´t have to be the US, women are struggling to create this equal enviroment and don´t realise that they are suppressing the natural instinct that men are born with and that creates somewhat of an psyhcologigal problem. What I´m saying here does propably only concern Iceland and some other Scandinavian country. I had a long talk with my college pyshcology teacher about this. Which is by the way a woman and a feminist B|

But I´m not educated enough to post a strong argument on any of those subjects. I only sharing inner thought and concerns :ph34r:

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Between you and PJ... I can hear the clock to SC calling. Give up on the good old days when you could say negative things about black people and women and have people "understand".



tick tock

It's not turning around, eventually it'll just collapse... to where no one can say anything about anybody regardless of their behavior. Thus bad behavior will have free rein from tacit approval.

Or, we'll break out of this cycle and be allowed to treat individuals specifically as individuals and respond to their behavior and character only.

which will it be? Everybody wants the 2nd, of course, but we do have to recognize when well meaning but naive rules drive us away from the 2nd and towards the first......

naw, nobody has to recognize anything if they don't want to.

I just want more good and talented skydivers at my DZ, I don't care where their great grandparents came from.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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There are several reasons why we see so few black, oriental, indian, native, etc. skydivers. First, they are minorities.
Secondly, they tend to be economic minorities.
Third, there are few asian, african, etc. role models for them. For example, if an asian chick came out to do a tandem, but saw no asian female senior skydivers, why would she stick around long enough to get licensed? There would be no-one she could relate to once she had a license.
Fourth, most of the indians and orientals in Vancouver immigrated during the last 50 years. First and second generation immigrants have radically different financial priorities. They are still trying to sponsor more relatives while establishing themselves in a new country, buy businesses, houses, etc. It is not until the second or third generation that immigrants have enough spare cash/disposable income to buy fancy cars and take up expensive pass-times (i.e. skydiving).
For example, while there may be 100,000 East Indians living in British Columbia, I have only met one who earned a skydiving license. He was at least third generation sihk, but played hockey, smoked, drank alcohol and "associated with a variety of unmarried women."

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I've met very few black skydivers, but those I know are very friendly and fun to be around. I know Larry McGrasty down in Mobile (jumps at Gold Coast), and two others who I met at Cross Keys, NJ during the state record 100 ways in the late 90's. One of them was my wingman... ;)
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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Third, there are few asian, african, etc. role models for them. For example, if an asian chick came out to do a tandem, but saw no asian female senior skydivers, why would she stick around long enough to get licensed? There would be no-one she could relate to once she had a license.



Even where true, that's the biggest idiotic reason that can be used as a poor excuse to not learn something. What is being said here is that minorities are racist and women are sexist. If you do 4-way, guess what? Dan BC, Shannon Pilcher, etc are good roles models for absolutely everybody. There is always someone to relate to. Will I get thrown in jail if I think Lise Aune's abilities and attitude are something to emulate? I mean, how dare I if she's a different gender? And if I chose to ignore that potentially good skydiving role model as a candidate, then I'd be doing a really stupid thing.

Maybe we could do a better job encouraging new skydivers in general and be role models for -anyone- interested. Then if they choose not to use that for their own betterment at least it's their own fault and no one else's.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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There are several reasons why we see so few black, oriental, indian, native, etc. skydivers. First, they are minorities.



So, what on earth does that have to do with it?
Are "minorities" just prone to avoid action sports?
Are "minorities" being kept by "The Man" from being allowed or encouraged to participate? I don't get it.


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Secondly, they tend to be economic minorities.



That's an inherently prejudiced statement.


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Third, there are few asian, african, etc. role models for them.



Is this an implication that a little black kid just couldn't possibly look up to anyone who is not also black? I mean, that's pretty prejudiced/bigoted/whatever to say. It also implies that the little black kid would harbor an inherent racism/bigotry that would preclude him from developing respect/awe/admiration for any non-black sports figure.

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For example, if an asian chick came out to do a tandem, but saw no asian female senior skydivers, why would she stick around long enough to get licensed? There would be no-one she could relate to once she had a license.



WTF?!?! >:(
Why couldn't she just HANG OUT WITH THE [I]SKYDIVERS[/I] -- YOU KNOW, THE [I]FELLOW [B]HUMAN BEINGS[/B][/I] THERE?!

You are making this sound like the only people a person can be relate to and feel accepted by are those of their skin color.

That's just absurd on its face.

An asian woman would have to see other asian women at the DZ in order to enjoy skydiving, and get hooked on it, and want to learn from and befriend other skydivers?

That's ridiculous.

And if this hypothetical asian woman did indeed feel that way, then well she's a bigot.

-Jeffrey
-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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Race should not be an issue with regards to role models. Or tandem instructors, or instructors, or just about anything.

Suppose you exchange "Asian" for "White" in the examples Jeff commented on.

"I'll only jump if I just with someone who's White".

"Nah, my role models need to be White".

That sort of screams "White Power" and shaven head and nazi memorabilia, no?

I dunno why there is a lack of ethnic diversity in skydiving. There are probably many explanations - and sadly enough, riggerob is probably right on the mark, despite me disagreeing with what he described. Racism isn't limited to caucasians only. Preferring people of a similar or same ethnicity isn't necessarily racism though - although it is a selection based on race and some associations that (might) be there - such as cultural similarity and so on.
Re: economy. I started jumping while I was unemplyed. I had around $800-$1000 a month - to pay housing, food, books for my studies, clothes and whatnot. This in a country where everything is at least 30% more expensive than in the US. Still managed to get certified and get 100 jumps in the first year.

If you want something enough, you find the way. If you don't find the way, it's either not possible, or you do not want it enough.

If anyone could give me the psycho-sociological explanation as to why we see few (in relation to the general population split up) "minorities" in the sport, I'd sure be interested in hearing it.

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There are several reasons why we see so few black, oriental, indian, native, etc. skydivers. First, they are minorities.



So, what on earth does that have to do with it?
Are "minorities" just prone to avoid action sports?
Are "minorities" being kept by "The Man" from being allowed or encouraged to participate? I don't get it.


Quote

Secondly, they tend to be economic minorities.



That's an inherently prejudiced statement.


Quote

Third, there are few asian, african, etc. role models for them.



Is this an implication that a little black kid just couldn't possibly look up to anyone who is not also black? I mean, that's pretty prejudiced/bigoted/whatever to say. It also implies that the little black kid would harbor an inherent racism/bigotry that would preclude him from developing respect/awe/admiration for any non-black sports figure.

Quote

For example, if an asian chick came out to do a tandem, but saw no asian female senior skydivers, why would she stick around long enough to get licensed? There would be no-one she could relate to once she had a license.



WTF?!?! >:(
Why couldn't she just HANG OUT WITH THE [I]SKYDIVERS[/I] -- YOU KNOW, THE [I]FELLOW [B]HUMAN BEINGS[/B][/I] THERE?!

You are making this sound like the only people a person can be relate to and feel accepted by are those of their skin color.

That's just absurd on its face.

An asian woman would have to see other asian women at the DZ in order to enjoy skydiving, and get hooked on it, and want to learn from and befriend other skydivers?

That's ridiculous.

And if this hypothetical asian woman did indeed feel that way, then well she's a bigot.

-Jeffrey




Quote



OR-

Like Twardo said,

They're playing Hockey!:P












The Pessimist says: "It can't possibly get any worse!"
The Optimist says: "Sure it can!"

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Well there's heaps of Japanese and Korean English students jumping at Ripcord Skydivers in Brisbane, Australia...so maybe it's just your neck of the woods...



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Plenty of Japanese and Korean ESL students do tandem jumps in Pitt Meadows, but few of them even ask about learning how to skydive on their own. I suspect that a tandem is just a once-in-a-lifetime thrill that they do on their first extended trip away from home.

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WTF?!?! >:(
Why couldn't she just HANG OUT WITH THE [I]SKYDIVERS[/I] -- YOU KNOW, THE [I]FELLOW [B]HUMAN BEINGS[/B][/I] THERE?!

You are making this sound like the only people a person can be relate to and feel accepted by are those of their skin color.

That's just absurd on its face.

An asian woman would have to see other asian women at the DZ in order to enjoy skydiving, and get hooked on it, and want to learn from and befriend other skydivers?



Or, to extend this argument further, no female or person of colour would ever have been able to crack into any of the white-dominated businesses/ industries, sports etc. It IS an absurd argument.

I think the turn in the debate has gone well away from a "general skydiving discussion"...
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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Between you and PJ... I can hear the clock to SC calling.

Give up on the good old days when you could say negative things about black people and women and have people "understand". The sting of pride you feel in debates such as these are a fraction of what any member of the population who is not a heterosexual white male has felt for 1000's of years.

If it truely does turn 180 degrees - It'll be our turn again in 20 000 years time. Breathe deep and show some resolve, or move with the times.

t



t, dude,
sometimes you are so elloquent:)
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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Why are so "few" black or asian skydivers out there?



To answer such a question, one would have to become an expert on the chromosomal differences as well as the social upbringings of blacks in our society.

With regard to blacks, don’t try to understand them. They don’t do very well in our sport.

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Why are so "few" black or asian skydivers out there?



To answer such a question, one would have to become an expert on the chromosomal differences as well as the social upbringings of blacks in our society.



To me, that is the most sensible opinion thus far.

In South Africa we do have the historical problem of apartheid and so on, but I don't believe we will see a significant change in Black participation even in the next 50 years.

One only has to look at other sports:

There are not many Black Olympic swimmers.
There are several superior Black middle and long distance runners.
Most team sports such as baseball, soccer and cricket attract participants from accross the spectrum.
Basketball attracts people with a distinct physical advantage.
Heavy contact sports such as American gridiron and Rugby don't attract many Asian participants.
The Asians are far superior at badminton and table tennis.

It is not a race issue. It is based on culture, social backround, physical attributes and ability. Ultimately it's in the genes!



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Why are so "few" black or asian skydivers out there?



To answer such a question, one would have to become an expert on the chromosomal differences as well as the social upbringings of blacks in our society.

With regard to blacks, don’t try to understand them. They don’t do very well in our sport.



Care to explain that? :SB|
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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