The WFFC Thief.

[SwampGod 0]

I wasn’t in Rantoul, but have heard the rumors. I first met Erik when he started skydiving. This is my perspective, my background.

I guess I’m trying to figure out where this thread is going. Is the attempt to inform the skydiving community of a possible threat? Is it to figure out how to be a better, more responsible friend to a sick skydiver? Or are we simply burning a witch at the stake?

If we’re warning of a threat... I wasn’t aware that the rumors had been confirmed true. I’ve not heard of a court ruling, or anything beyond the campfire talk -- “Didja hear what happened at Rantoul?” I’m not saying anyone is innocent, because I don’t know.

Something certainly went down, and whether that something is worse or better than the rumors has yet to be determined. Correct me if I’m wrong... but does anyone actually have the facts yet?

I truly hope the people who have named and essentially convicted Erik on this list know what they’re talking about. Posting someone’s picture with an accusation in a public forum is tricky business. Especially since it’s been stated that the original post wasn’t actually correct (ie, the gear in the pictures wasn’t stolen). Careful, folks.

What about the other point, one of being a better friend. If that’s the case, though, I find it interesting that people are stating Erik’s friends “didn’t do enough,” without knowing what was or wasn’t done in the first place.


Currently, there are a lot of assumptions being made based on incomplete information. Which is natural and somewhat acceptable, if the assumptions didn’t include so many uninformed judgements.

Why does everyone assume his friends could see it coming? Why does everyone assume _he_ could even see it coming?

No-one (myself included) has all the information, so how can ANY of us be so sure about what should have been done? How has a forum already diagnosed the man with kleptomania?

We all seem to agree that something bad happened at Rantoul. Whatever mess Erik got himself into is one he has to face. This includes the rage of MANY skydivers, including his friends. They’re mad at the breach of trust. They’re mad at the let-down. Many are even mad at themselves. Everyone feels something differenct could have been done, but this is with the benefit of hindsight.

I don’t know everything, and while I don’t want to violate anyone’s privacy, I feel I should at least give you this:

I first met Eirk as a shy AFF student. He reminded me of some of the kids in my chemistry class -- quiet, smart, and more than a bit shy. But he quickly grasped the concepts of skydiving, and quickly turned himself into a hell of an RW flyer. He also came out of his shell at this time, gaining confidence with every day that passed. Everyone at the DZ considered it a success story of sorts... a “shy guy finds a home” type deal. How many of society’s “misfits” have found a similar home in skydiving?

Later, we didn’t see Erik for a bit, but those close to him stated he was having a hard time, and would return to the sport once his doctors felt it was time. I saw him once during this time, and I could tell he was struggling. It seemed as if he was that shy chemistry guy again.

Fast-forward to this summer. Erik seemed more confident, though more likely to invade your personal space. In my personal opinion, it was the only thing that worried me, and the only thing I talked to him about working on (at least with me). The worst I saw coming for Erik in the near future was a broken nose if he gave the wrong dude’s girlfriend (or the wrong dude) a hug they weren’t ready for.

In any case, I certainly don’t know him as well as others, but I think it’s a leap to suggest that we all could have seen “it” coming. I still don’t even know what “it” is....


Look, all I know is that I entered this sport in part because of the joy of the skydive itself, but also because of the family. I have a sister that drank herself into a partial coma, all but abandoned her three children to the rest of the family, and sometimes reappears for family functions. Am I angry at her? Damn straight. But she’s still my sister.

I’m not suggesting everyone should embrace Erik with open arms, nor even call him brother. I’m just saying that I entered this sport in love with my family in the sky. Today, I am a bit saddened by the approach my brothers and sisters are taking. So much judgement...

I truly don’t know the path to redemption here, but I have to believe it exists. I’d also like to believe we’ll be mature enough to get a few more facts in us before we speculate any further.

We’ve been using the same language with Erik that we use to describe the owners of Skyride. Is that truly proper? Anyone who is guilty of something will have to face their actions, but what about how WE treat them. I agree that people who repeatedly, intentionally scar the sport certainly deserve our wrath. But what of the people that are simply trying to play the hand they’re dealt... and sometimes we simply get dealt a lousy hand.

I know people want to keep this thread open, I’m just asking that it becomes a bit more productive.



Thank you for your time.

-eli

[Frenchy68 0]

Amen.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[goose491 0]

Quote

>The bad do bad because the bad is rewarded. The good do good because the good is rewarded.

True usually, not generally true for people with physical/neural/psychological deficits. Try beating a stutterer every time he stutters; you won't cure him. Reward a Down syndrome kid every time he does well in class; his IQ is not going to go up.

Stuttering is not "Bad-behaviour"... but stealing is.

Having a high IQ is not "Good-behaviour"... but not taking things that don't belong to you is.

I agree that one should sympathise a little if someone has a disorder. But we are all too sensitive a people these days. The guy's a theif and his actions should not be met with an "understanding" pat on the back.

I'm glad he's going to the can... klepto or not.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[SwampThing 0]

Quote

No-one (myself included) has all the information, so how can ANY of us be so sure about what should have been done? How has a forum already diagnosed the man with kleptomania?

Quote

Great Post fellow Swampy!

I've seen accusations and clinical diagnosis with discussion of drug treatment and counseling.

But no actual statement of facts.

One should ask themselves, what if all this was coming down on ME? What if it's not as 'bad' as everyone is speculating.


I'd hoped as a group we would be more open minded and wait for the facts before passing judgment.

The Pessimist says: "It can't possibly get any worse!"
The Optimist says: "Sure it can!"

[CDRINF 1]

Again, I was there when this happened. These are the facts as I know them:

FACT: Skydivers in LO tent #1 at WFFC were reporting that jump tickets were coming up missing.

FACT: Based on observed behavior of rumaging through piles of gear, the individual in question was thought to possibly be responsible.

FACT: I observed this person going through a pile of gear myself. When asked what he was doing he stated: "Looking for my checkbook."

FACT: Convention security apprehended the individual when he was going through gear. I was in the air at the time. After getting on the ground, I heard one of the security personnel tell one of the LO's that the guy had wallets, credit cards, cash and a number of jump tickets that did not belong to him. Shortly after this I saw him being escorted to manifest by security personnel and police.

FACT: A load organizer took the pictures of the aprehended individual posted to this thread. Name of the individual pictured is Erik (Eric?) Peterson.

FACT: He was taken away by Rantoul PD.

There may be more verifiable facts, but this is what I know from being there.

What I do not know:

Were his gear and cameras stolen from someone else or purchased with stolen funds?

Was he kiting checks to gear vendors? There was a report the next day that he had been.

What is the disposition of his case and his current whereabouts?

I know nothing about him having any sort of medical, emotional or psychological condition. I spoke with him one or twice. Seemed a bit of an odd duck, but harmless. He even flew video for our group once or twice.


CDR

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

There was a time when skydiving was a small, close knit group of people. There were not that many who were part of the community and everyone knew or at least had heard of everyone else. That is no longer true. Skydiving has become a recreation instead of a sport. It is now a reflection of society as a whole. You have liars, cheats, thieves and rapists.

And there are also a lot of whuffos walking around, of unknown honor, who might act upon a target of opportunity to steal something.

Even if you can trust your fellow skydivers, you can't trust unknown whuffos.

[slug 1]

HI cdr

"Convention security apprehended the individual when he was going through gear. I was in the air at the time. After getting on the ground, I heard one of the security personnel tell one of the LO's that the guy had wallets, credit cards, cash and a number of jump tickets that did not belong to him"

Lets give the guy the benifit of the doubt

(slick defence attorney talking ) Your honor my client had heard about the stealing going on and was just picking up all the loose property for safe keeping.

My client had every intention of returning all that stuff but was prevented from doing so by security personnel and police.

What we have here is a failure to communicate. Trust me

R.I.P.

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

Well, he gets sympathy from me. I've met some very stupid and very sick people, and they are not always responsible for their actions. As long as I know that, I can deal with it, and can accept them for who they are. Some are pretty good people. Keep in mind that we all have our flaws; even people with serious flaws can be worthwhile to know.

I don't disagree with you Bill. I am just stating with seems to be the mood here in these forums.

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

I will come to his aid with one fact.

He doesn't steal all of his gear. He has bought from Sq1 and some of the stuff that is in those pictures was bought from us.

Dom

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

I will come to his aid with one fact.

He doesn't steal all of his gear. He has bought from Sq1 and some of the stuff that is in those pictures was bought from us.

But where did you get it?
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[slug 1]

Quote

Quote

I will come to his aid with one fact.

He doesn't steal all of his gear. He has bought from Sq1 and some of the stuff that is in those pictures was bought from us.

But where did you get it?
Sparky

Hi sparky

Or where did the bad guy get his money from?

If the money was .....dirty and he bought something clean with it is that money laundering

Send me 50 rigs ASAP will pay cash.

R.I.P.

[Mr17Hz 1]

Quote

As a suggestion - it may help keep your friend out of jail (and help keep him from getting beat up) if as many people as possible know about his illness. Someone can't be understanding if they don't know what's going on.

Anybody who steals like this should be in Jail, or a mental institution, or someplace where they're not free to roam about. We all have obligations to the great society we live in, and keeping people who wreck it and threaten it's decency is top on my list.

If he's got a mental or physical condition that needs to be dealt with before he can be trusted in a free society, then it should be dealt with where he is not threatening or negativly influencing others.

Lara, i'm sorry, but all you're doing by sticking up for him is giving him the idea that what he's done isn't as bad as it really was - but those who exhibit behaviour like this are the same kind of people who were shooting up their neighbors in New Orleans a few weeks ago. They need to understand that there are rules that need to be followed to keep our society civil, and often these are lessons that only that which a correctional facility will help.



Matt

Matt Christenson

[email protected]
http://www.RealDropzone.com - A new breed of dropzone manifest software.

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

I like what you wrote.

While I do believe that what this person named Erik did was wrong and hurtful to many, I am saddened to know that he did this due to a mental illness. His illness doesn't excuse his behavior. I hope that his theft victims were able to recover their possessions/money. These people are entitled to feel betrayal, hurt and anger over what this person did to them.

I don't know anything about Kleptomania, mental illness or Erik, but I do feel much sympathy for him from one human being to another. This must be a very painful time for him. After all, we all have our ups and downs. Some people's ups and downs are more extreme than others. Still, EVERYONE OF US has done something in our lives of which we are ashamed. We have all, at some point, hurt people who we love. We have all had times when we have felt that the whole world was against us. While he may have brought this upon himself, we don't have to be so cruel when talking of him.

People call him a fuckin weirdo. How many of us on here have ever been called that by someone else? I know that I have definitely been called a weirdo or worse.

Quote

He was taken to manifest where one of the LO's took the pictures posted here and told him "Hope you enjoyed your skydiving career, you won't jump again anywhere, these are going out to the world." He reportedly broke down and curled up on the floor, crying like a baby as he realized his world was falling apart.

After reading about how people think that he was weird, I assume that this guy has probably never or rarely fit in most places. Skydiving may have made Erik finally feel like he actually had a place in this world. The thought that he might never be able to have acceptance again in his community is probably what made him break down. It definitely sounds like he hit rock bottom.

It's so sad that someone could do this to himself and his life, and it's sad that he had to betray others' trust in the process. The fact that this grown man was crying like a baby when caught seems to indicate that he did feel shame for his actions. Who knows? Erik's blatant stealing in Rantoul in front of so many people/friends may have been a cry for help.

Still, if we look at things from a different perspective, this rock bottom episode in his life could be the best thing that has ever happened to him. It may drive him to realize the depths of his illness and enable him to begin to get the proper help that he needs and to remain on his medication. Who knows how long this kind of thing would have gone on unaccounted for if he had not been caught? On still another note, it may help to enlighten some of us to find out more about his mental illness and perhaps to be less quick to judge others.

I do hope that Erik realizes that there are some people, like Lara and others, that do care about his well-being. His rehabilitation will probably be a very long and difficult process, but the only way left for him to go is up, right? All that some of us can do to help someone like Erik is to send him hope, that he will be able to turn his life around. That is my wish for him.

[Vertifly 0]

Quote

...all you're doing by sticking up for him is giving him the idea that what he's done isn't as bad as it really was

Can you explain what makes you think this? Is there a connection. Billvon is making a point about material things being replaceable.

Quote

...those who exhibit behaviour like this are the same kind of people who were shooting up their neighbors in New Orleans a few weeks ago.

Same question for this sentence too...please. ?

...edited to add...i'm sorry but, bwaaahahahahaaaa...because I just read that second one again, you are a riot. sheesh dude.

[skydiverbry 0]

Could'nt agree more!!!!

--------------------------------------------------
Growing old is mandatory.Growing up is optional!!

D.S.#13(Dudeist Skdiver)

[skydiverbry 0]

Well Ithink Imade a call without readig the whole thread and jump the gun . I cannot stand anybody who steal another person stuff who more than likely busted their ass to afford it. But in my min if that person does have a condition an illness and is off meds for that illness so leway must be given. I held my Mom resposible for alot of action when I was yonger,but it was'nt her it was her illness. Now she's on her meds. and she is the most wonder person and I do feel bad for all tose wasted yaers and all the energy I put into holding a grudge

--------------------------------------------------
Growing old is mandatory.Growing up is optional!!

D.S.#13(Dudeist Skdiver)

[billvon 2,380]

>Stealing is stealing, what ever the reason or excuse.

Taking water for your family during a hurricane is the same as stealing a Rolex to sell it? I don't agree with that. The world is not black and white.

>You can see by this thread the kind of distrust and strong feelings it
> causes.

Right, but you are the one deciding to have the strong feelings about it.

> Some have argued that this guy is "part of the family" and we ought to
>help him. I hard lesson I learned long ago is that you cannot continue to
>support people, even family and friends, when you know they are wrong.

Agreed. But there is a huge difference between supporting someone and supporting what someone does. Anyone who has ever been a parent knows what it's like to support someone you love even if they are doing something wrong. You don't abandon or disown a child because he steals; you make it very clear that it's wrong, and then you continue to support him/her.

[billvon 2,380]

> but those who exhibit behaviour like this are the same kind of people
>who were shooting up their neighbors in New Orleans a few weeks ago.

Do you really think that losing a jump ticket to a thief hurts as much as losing a loved one to a murderer? Petty theft and murder are both wrong, but are not even in the same league, and trying to paint this guy with the "just like a murderer" brush is (IMO) wrong.

>If he's got a mental or physical condition that needs to be dealt with
> before he can be trusted in a free society, then it should be dealt with
> where he is not threatening or negativly influencing others.

From what's been posted here, it sounds like it _was_ being dealt with, and there was a problem with that treatment.

[larakiyomi 0]

And here I am breaking my promise to leave this thread. I just can't get any less upset, so sue me.

From my first post:

Quote

I don't mean to justify what was done...

Post #2:

Quote

Can I say again, that this guy is not just a 'fuckin wierdo [sic]' or nameless asshole, he is a good friend to many, but unfortunately, he is very, very sick. Please, can we have some understanding here, and less silly name calling?

#3, now pay attention here:

Quote

I'm not saying he did the right thing, or that he shouldn't be held accountable.

#4:

Quote

I'm not saying he did anything right, from even being in a place as stressful as Rantoul, to stealing, to not depending on the people who care about him more, to whatever.

So forgive me for not remembering when I, or anyone who got what I was trying to say, has even once claimed that someone who breaks the law should not pay the consequences. For the record, yes, of course I believe that people who break the law should be held responsible, and be punished according to the law.

The only reason I stuck my nose into this (the intelligence of which I'm really doubting) was to ask that my friend be treated like a human, instead of a freak to be mocked, called names, and humiliated. I know looking at the posts I replied to now, some stuff has been edited, and it doesn't look all that bad. But reading the things I read, really made me feel as though he was being treated like that.

I guess I didn't make clear enough that there is a difference between sticking up for a friend's basic human dignity, and claiming they should be let off scot free for any and all actions. In case it's still unclear, my one and only point is that Erik is a human, a friend, and deserves to be spoken about accordingly.

Lara

Blue Skies Mag

[RhondaLea 3]

Quote

The only reason I stuck my nose into this (the intelligence of which I'm really doubting) was to ask that my friend be treated like a human, instead of a freak to be mocked, called names, and humiliated.

Most people don't have sufficient education in psychology to understand the difference between a mental illness and a personality disorder.

People with personality disorders give people with mental illness a bad name because they are lumped together, and while the former have a choice about their behavior, the latter do not.

Everyone who might run into Erik has a right to be aware of the situation so they might take steps to protect their belongings, but a little compassion is in order for someone who is battling an illness over which he has no control.

Erik's problem is a disease. Lack of empathy is a choice. All in all, I think lack of empathy is probably worse in the long run than petty theft.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[tustinr 1]

Couldn't agree more with you Rhonda. The lack of empathy shown in some of the postings is deplorable and very sad.

Rich

---------------------------------------
Everything that happens to you in life is your teacher. The secret is to learn to sit at the feet of your life and be taught.

[Michele 1]

Quote

The lack of empathy shown in some of the postings is deplorable and very sad.

But, Dr, and RL, don't you see? Society holds no distinction between the two - I've met Drs who don't understand the difference. As a result, people who have a chemical imbalance and are fighting a medical illness are castigated and hurt badly by misunderstanding and public perception. If it could be controlled (the behavior) then it becomes about choices; people who don't (thankfully) suffer from an untreated chemical, medical brain illness simply don't understand that it's not about a choice.

What I think is happening here is that some folks are (rightly) feeling victimized. What is also going on is a public venting of anger and hurt. If this was a simple theft, with no complications, I would not have even written my first post. But it's not; however, the distinction is not being made at all with those who've been hurt.

Additionally, add into the mix the (mis)perception that all skydivers are family, and it becomes exponentially more personal and "angry-fying." If his (still unidentified) illness was understood, I would sincerely hope that people would not take it so personally. Because of the "brotherhood" of skydiving - which, as stated earlier, is not as real as we'd like to perceive it to be - there is the additional angst and upset. Any violation of the unwritten "rules" of skydiving is a larger violation than it would be if someone were mugged or their homes ripped off. And when people are mad, they say things they regret (hopefully).

HOWEVER: none of that takes into consideration the actual issues of mental illness, and disrupted thought patterns.

Wendy, nothing but respect for you at all, but in earlier posts I think you're somewhat misinformed. If I were to get to "rock bottom" again, there's no guarantee I'd be alive to make it back up from there. Thankfully, my illness, while violent, is a self-violence rather than a homicidal one. There are people who have my illness and are homicidally violent. If they are allowed to get to "rock bottom" they might not survive it, either...and they may take others with them. To allow someone to get to rock bottom may indeed kill them. And that would suck. Tough love doesn't work on cancer, diabetes, or whooping cough...and it doesn't work with brain/chemical imbalances. Medical treatment does.

In any event, I am truly sorry for those who were apparently victimized by him. I also, however, encourage people to sit back and think about things a bit more, and try to understand the illness which created this event. Think about what it would be like if YOU were he, or if your brother was afflicted with this. And see if you can't dredge up a tad more compassion; maybe act like the "family" skydiving is perceived to be.

Lara, thank you for being his friend. Your posts are appreciated.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Most people don't have sufficient education in psychology to understand the difference between a mental illness and a personality disorder.

Hence, another problem. Sometimes the gullible or kind are taken in by unscrupulous people. Been there, done that.

There seems to be an assumption that the person has such a disorder. Being a thief, their honesty is suspect.

I went to a school with a person who fell onto hard times. He told me that he lost his truck driving job due to drinking. I offered him a non-driving job. Three weeks later, he burglarized my house. In fact, he had lost his driving job due to theft. He lied about that to me.

Just because someone says that they have a mental illness, does not make it a fact. It may be just another manipulation of society, the system, and friendships.

A lot of people cry when arrested. It sucks.

Claiming a miraculous religious conversion at a court appearance is another charade that I doubt the sincerity of.

If he is in the business of buying and selling, I am also suspicious of the source of his wares and his funding. Stolen money looks the same and he was caught stealing money. It is naive to believe that this was an isolated incident.

Sorry, but no compassion here.

[JoeyRamone 0]

If i would of caught him he would be 6 feetunder.

[packerboy 3]

He's trying to rip people off with the prices of electronic equipment on his web site. We'd pay less in Canadian dollars for that stuff.... 6 months ago.

--------------------------------------------------
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson