Tonto 1 #1 November 15, 2005 Here's a Senario. A jumper reports they witnessed an unstable reserve deployment at 9000ft during a dive. 45 min later there is still no sign of the jumper. At what point do you think the DZO or S&TA should become involved in looking for the jumper? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jjiimmyyt 0 #2 November 15, 2005 I'd like to think as soon as they are made aware there is a missing jumper. "This isn't an iron lung, people. You can actually disconnect and not die." -Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #3 November 15, 2005 IMHO just after everyone else landed. He/She could be landed out, injured..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #4 November 15, 2005 As soon as the first person from the group lands and notifies the S&TA/DZO/safety person that there's been a reserve deployment. Hopefully 'looking for the jumper' simply involves looking up and seeing that they're under a fully-inflated reserve at 5-6,000ft. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #5 November 15, 2005 Not if it's a wingsuit dive with an exit 2.5 miles out and a high white layer of cloud above 11000ft exit altitude.. The glide ratio of the reserve should easily be better than the flock, so he should have been able to make it back - but when he never did, we (his fellow flockers) launched our own search. The DI continued operations as normal. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #6 November 15, 2005 It really tells something about the quality of service there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #7 November 15, 2005 QuoteAt what point do you think the DZO or S&TA should become involved in looking for the jumper? In the UK the answer is: the moment their foot leaves the step of the aircraft. BPA ops manual requires that DZ control "ensure(s) that the descents of all parachutists are monitored from the ground." DZ control is also under a duty to report all malfunctions to the CCI. Technically not the DZO or S&TA (CCI) but certainly the DZ will (should) become involved almost instantly if any jumpers experience problems which have them landing off the DZ by any significant margin. The ops manual does not dictate that the DZ ought to take any specific action on observing/being informed of a malfunction as you describe (other than reporting it to the BPA) but I have never seen a DZ not react straight away to any kind of off landing and or malfunction where they could be of assistance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevinwhelan 0 #8 November 15, 2005 In Slovakia they have a very good system. Whenyou register to jump you get a laminated card with your name ect on it. To manifest you put this card and your jump ticket on a board for the load you want to get on. When you land you remove your card. If a card is still there two loads later the manifest starts pageing the jumper and their friends to find out if there is a problem. "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #9 November 15, 2005 We had a better way. 2 of us were reading and checking the list on the gate from the airport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #10 November 15, 2005 Quote45 min later there is still no sign of the jumper. At what point do you think the DZO or S&TA should become involved in looking for the jumper? as soon as it was known. Unbelievable! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
noluckned 0 #11 November 15, 2005 QuoteI'd like to think as soon as they are made aware there is a missing jumper. I agree. In this case it was obvious that something out of the ordinary had happened and that the jumper was MIA. I feel that at the very least there should have been a call for volunteers to go out looking for the missing jumper. I am not suggesting that all DZ operations be immediately suspended, but I believe it should be incumbent upon the S&TA to ensure that the jumper is indeed safe(not stuck in a tree, power lines ect) While wingsuit flying is become more common these days it believe it should still fall into an "Extraordinary activities" category and as such, certain safety measures should be in place such as a driver standing by to pick up anyone landing out. In this case it was made abundantly clear that the jumper had had an unstable reserve activation and could be in distress. IMO any S&TA worth his salt should have organised a response, even if it was simply getting volunteers to stand by in case a search needed to be mounted, then when it became apparent that the jumper had not returned, it would save loads of time getting people organised. I realise I am getting a bit looooooong in the post here, but by logic, in cloudy conditions(dunno the cloud base) it is perfectly possible to get lost if you are riding a canopy in from high altitude(theoretically you go downwind, but we all know about top-drift) so a wind shift of a few degrees will ensure you miss the dz by miles. Please tell me this all had a happy ending *Disclaimer* The views expressed in the above post may or may not be the result of drunkeness or temporary insanity and should only rarely be construed as the views of the poster himself Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #12 November 15, 2005 As soon as it is known that a jumper had a reserve deployment. Initially, the pilot should be advised on his descent or climb for the next load so he can relay a high canopy call to ATC. The pilot should also be looking for the canopy in the air, or on the ground along the wind line. The load should be called to manifest immediately to determine who had the emergency (if it isn't already obvious), and to obtain witness reports so searchers have a better idea if it was a "normal" deployment or a malfunctioning parachute. After one load it should be assumed the jumper is on the ground and may be in trouble. At that point an airplane should be dispatched to check the full wind line, and then to search off the wind line. The DZ should also dispatch a few people in cars to check obvious open fields and roadways where the jumper might have landed. These kinds of things happen, and generally they are not a big deal. The jumper has a problem, reacts, lands fine, and then walks back to the DZ. Still, there should be a rapid and escalating response on the ground in case the jumper is injured. I'll also add that if the jump happened close to sunset the response should ramp up much faster to take advantage of limited daylight. .Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jas8472 0 #13 November 15, 2005 As soon as the person that saw it got down, they should report it and the search should start there and then, start looking for the canopy, what if another jump plane is about to drop on top of the guy under his reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #14 November 15, 2005 It had a happy ending. The 9 other flockers mounted up on three 4 x 4's and started searching. The clouds were higher than the reserve deployment, but made looking for a white canopy pretty difficult. The jumper was found uninjured and given a ride out to the DZ by a local and got in about 50 min after we landed. I just expected more from the Duty Instructor, who probably thought we all had it under control. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #15 November 15, 2005 So I'm a young hard-ass... IMMEDIATELY! No other option is acceptable. S&TA, volunteers, somebody at least...My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
noluckned 0 #16 November 15, 2005 Good show. I fully agree with you, the safety officer on duty is, by definition, responsible for safety. I suppose the thinking was...no worries...its Tonto...he will organise it all....lol. Still, if I was ever in that position it would be a load off my mind to know that somebody down there cares *Disclaimer* The views expressed in the above post may or may not be the result of drunkeness or temporary insanity and should only rarely be construed as the views of the poster himself Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #17 November 15, 2005 QuoteIt really tells something about the quality of service there. For my incident in DeLand, the manifest girl never sent my friend Eric out in the truck as I told her too since I was landing in the student area. I had to walk 25 yards with 25 lbs of gear and a broken hip just to get people in the private jet hangers to call the dz to have someone come get me. Look for them and look as soon as you know they are gone, I'm sure they will thank you.Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
purplegirl 0 #18 November 15, 2005 my dz is very good at looking out especially keeping an eye out on newbies and students. still, i always tell a friend to start looking for me if the plane comes back and i'm still not on the ground. just in case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #19 November 15, 2005 Quotemy dz is very good at looking out especially keeping an eye out on newbies and students. still, i always tell a friend to start looking for me if the plane comes back and i'm still not on the ground. just in case. Good advice, def. never hurts. I also did this with my buddy who drives the truck but he got swooped up in work right before my load and wasn't reminded by manifest My best friend and her mom did tandems w. me on that load, her mom's first and her 9th jump (not all tandems). They were looking for me but after watching mom's video. I wasn't trying to sound like I was blaming anyone, I hope it didn't come off as such, just trying to let people know how important it can be to help others out esp. if they are landin off.Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #20 November 15, 2005 Whenever I have had an out landing my cell phone has been ringing more or less when I hit the ground. If necessary a car has been sent. I would like to believe that this is standard.HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #21 November 15, 2005 QuoteAs soon as the first person from the group lands and notifies the S&TA/DZO/safety person that there's been a reserve deployment. ... My thoughts, exactly. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #22 November 15, 2005 QuoteFor my incident in DeLand, the manifest girl never sent my friend Eric out in the truck as I told her too since I was landing in the student area. I had to walk 25 yards with 25 lbs of gear and a broken hip just to get people in the private jet hangers to call the dz to have someone come get me. Have you landed out? Has anyone told you the stay/sit on the ground if you have injury and you need help. That's a simple signal. If I were you I would've left the gear in the field if I can feel I have some major injury. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #23 November 15, 2005 QuoteQuoteFor my incident in DeLand, the manifest girl never sent my friend Eric out in the truck as I told her too since I was landing in the student area. I had to walk 25 yards with 25 lbs of gear and a broken hip just to get people in the private jet hangers to call the dz to have someone come get me. Have you landed out? Has anyone told you the stay/sit on the ground if you have injury and you need help. That's a simple signal. If I were you I would've left the gear in the field if I can feel I have some major injury. Yes I have landed out once at Lake Wales and walked back with other jumpers from the load, uneventful except for the bleached cow skull this girl and I ran across. We scurried out of the alligator infested area towards the trailer park fast. I was landing in the student area in DeLand. I think it would have taken me longer to get help had I just sat down- not sure if you've been to DeLand but you can't see the student area from the dz (well hardly at all if any).Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #24 November 15, 2005 QuoteA jumper reports they witnessed an unstable reserve deployment at 9000ft during a dive. If I was the jumper who witnessed it, I'd probably try to keep an eye on them and land out with either the jumper or their main. I'm not sure that would be safe with a 9000ft reserve deployment. But if I thought it was, I'd probably just have dumped my main when I saw them go, and then stuck around with them.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #25 November 15, 2005 hmmm.. interesting reading the above. I landed kind of out once due to being blown back over the DZ by the wind. I was fine but took about 10 or 15 minutes trying to get my canopy out of the tree it had become entangled in (i'd landed in a little dirt road between a bunch of trees). When i got back to the hangar they were just about to send the plane up to look for me (having sent a car that couldn't find me because they sent it down the wrong road!). We don't jump with cellphones but it did lead to a discussion that maybe we should... (p.s. i should emphasize the wind had picked up quite a bit since we took off - I didn't jump again that day obviously)Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
