i find it very strange that safety isn't #1 priority
Quote
If safety really were the #1 priority - no compromise - we wouldn't jump at all. Lots of helmets today may offer less impact protection than a protec, and cost more, but they're not trying to be perfect at protecting your noggin, they're trying to be a combination of protective, light, good-looking, easy to don/doff, and convenient for carrying stuff on your head.
Protecs are kinda like the "Hyundai Accent L" of helmets. Inexpensive, do a good job as a "gourd guard", but don't look the best, and would cost a lot if you put all the options on yourself (like a quick helmet release, camera mount, anti-snagging for camera mount, audible pocket, chin-cup to hold helmet more stable, pimp-daddy velvet lining, etc.).
BTW, I wear a protec and drive a Hyundai Accent. Inexpensive and basic is working OK for me so far.
along the same lines how hard is it to put an audible in a protec? The ones I've used through out my student training didn't appear to have a place for one.
------------------------------------------------ I've done so much, with so little, for so long I'm now expected to do everything with nothing forever
Last year, one of our PFF students wanted to buy a full-face helmet from Para Sport Italia. Once he convinced us that he could still see his release and ripcord handles, we let him do PFF Level 2, etc. with his new full-face helmet.
What is even sillier is anyone wanting to jump without a helmet. I have been slapped up side the head so many times ....
Not necessarily - imagine a low time jumper in teh occasionally cold weather we happen to have here breathing out a bit hard and getting an opaque lens 300 feet up under canopy (or in freefall for that matter) - might not be so switched on, might panic etc......
Last year, one of our PFF students wanted to buy a full-face helmet from Para Sport Italia. Once he convinced us that he could still see his release and ripcord handles, we let him do PFF Level 2, etc. with his new full-face helmet.
What is even sillier is anyone wanting to jump without a helmet. I have been slapped up side the head so many times ....
Not necessarily - imagine a low time jumper in teh occasionally cold weather we happen to have here breathing out a bit hard and getting an opaque lens 300 feet up under canopy (or in freefall for that matter) - might not be so switched on, might panic etc......
Rubbish. We have MUCH colder winter weather in Chicago and points north than anywhere in the UK. So cold the tears sometimes freeze goggles to your face.
You scenario simply doesn't happen.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
I guess the difference is we're allowed to bust clouds in our full faces. That's virtually guaranteed to put a sheet of ice over the outside of your visor if it's cold enough.
That said the rational behind the rule is defiantly restriction of the view of your handles. There's a lot of people who think the rule is a little outdated given the care most of today's helmet manufacturers take to ensure the handles remain visible.
I used a Protec for around 40 jumps off student status but I only heard my audible on maybe a third of those jumps
I even taped up the ear vents and the holes in the top cos my hair would come through then matt up on the outside of the helmet aaargh!!
My old protec saved me from a fair few scrapes from bad landings and riser slaps, it does give the best bumper protection, but as soon as I got my B License (50 jumps plus IC1) I ditched my faithful protec and got a factory diver full face. Best decision I've made yet; I can concentrate so much more, hear my audible and not have to worry from my nose freezing over from the cold British skies!
I'd definately recommend a protec for at least your first 50 jumps, until you've stopped falling over and have more of an awareness of who's around you, both in freefall and under canopy.
Don't worry about not having the latest ultra-cool shiny black ice-cream tub on your head just to keep up with the cool and trendies, it doesn't look good covered in scratches and nobody worth their salt will say anything. My friend has over 200 jumps and still wears her trusty blue protec, even though she has the money to get a new one! Kay x
I have a Z1 and Im jumping in Finland. In cold weather I might have some fog inside my visor when ground temperature was under +5C. It takes no time to open visor a bit and fog is gone in no time.
Once he convinced us that he could still see his release and ripcord handles, we let him do PFF Level 2, etc. with his new full-face helmet.
[rant]
Now what I find silly is why people who couldn't get back into formations even if their life depended on it once they let go the initial grips, would want to wear something that might fog and restrict their vision anytime during the skydive. The full-face came 'en vogue' when the top teams found out they were turning points so fast and so close they needed facial protection against their teammates knees and feet. Next thing you know everyone is wearing them even when a protec (or a simple yet toroughly tested ski-helmet) does the same job much better at a fraction of the cost. Only recently I saw someone after a funneled exit wrestle his way back into the formation for the entire rest of the skydive. Didn't make it, despite booties and a full face helmet. (& yes, he missed the count, thus causing the funnel himself...)
AND, if you NEED your full face helmet on landing, your canopy-skills stink, IMHO... You all can do the math on the amount of skydives you can buy for the price-difference, thus improving your skills...
I bet that some of you could be convinced to jump with an LCD screen + tongue controlled menu structure or a head up display against the inside of your full face... [/rant]
Ah, that felt good...
(But if they can find all the handles and it makes them happy I see no need for a 50 jump rule...)
"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...
I think that the reason for the full face helmet rule in the UK stems from the original full faces that were on the market. They didn't have a flip up visor, and did have restricted visibility when looking down (for say your handles). There was also concern that they restricted your hearing.
As such the BPA decided that you needed 50 jumps before you could jump a full face. They didn't want low timers spooked by not being able to find their handles. They were also worried that, as they have limited experience under canopy they may be flying around with restricted vision, and limited hearing.
The helmets on the market today are much better, but some people still jump the old styles. Having rules that say "you can jump a Z1, but not an old style Oxygen" is a pain, so they have a blanket ban.
BTW, we are not allowed to cloud bust in the UK. The ops manual states that you must be able to see you planned opening point and landing point from your exit point. It is the responsibility of the jump master to ensure that no-one then goes through the cloud. Ever noticed that when it's cloudy the jump masters are generally not the instructors with ratings to lose?
along the same lines how hard is it to put an audible in a protec? The ones I've used through out my student training didn't appear to have a place for one.
There's enough room in the ear pocket - Just hold it in place with a rubber band or something. Actually, I taped up the holes in my Pro-Tech and just stick my Pro-Dytter in there while donning the hemet. Have to be careful when you pull your helmet off that it doesn't come falling out.
Parachutists may not leave the aircraft if, at the point of exit, the ground between the opening point and the intended landing area is not visible. .
But it says nothing about any cloud between your exit point and you opening point. You can pass through as much cloud as you like (per ops manual anyway) so long as at the time that you exit you can see both your opening point and your landing point.
There are plenty of circumstances when you can pass through cloud on the way down but still be able to see your opening point and the DZ from the plane.
along the same lines how hard is it to put an audible in a protec? The ones I've used through out my student training didn't appear to have a place for one.
There's enough room in the ear pocket - Just hold it in place with a rubber band or something. Actually, I taped up the holes in my Pro-Tech and just stick my Pro-Dytter in there while donning the hemet. Have to be careful when you pull your helmet off that it doesn't come falling out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The solution to falling audible altimeters is more duct tape. It has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together.
people seem to like the protec for safety, and it can be a great looking helmet with a decent paint job. (Robert over at Ground Zero at Elsinore does a great job on helmets, if you're looking for someone to paint it).
Personally, I use a bonehead helmet, because I have a very good friend who impacted the tail of a caravan wearing a bonehead helmet, remained conscious, pulled for himself and walked away with a few stitches. There was a crack in the helmet, and some damage to the plane, but he walked away. Had he not been wearing a helmet, he'd have died, no question about it.
I've also seen the abuse my cousin puts his pro-tec through (he's a skateboarder), and would feel fine jumping with either a bonehead or a pro-tec.
along the same lines how hard is it to put an audible in a protec? The ones I've used through out my student training didn't appear to have a place for one.
There isn't a place for one; the jumper would have to add it. I've seen some velcro-and-webbing extra-helmet audible holders. I can't seem to buy one, though, so I have to look into making one.
Basically, it isn't going to be easy.
Maybe I should, or maybe I will convert to a different kind of helmet. But for now I'm sold on my pro-tec because in the same week early on in my studenthood two things happened: 1. I lost my helmet. I couldn't find it anywhere. Finally I checked my head and, sure enough, I was wearing it. 2. I whacked the top of my head on the airplane on the ground good. On feeling the impact, my first thought was "oh, here comes the PAIN!" But actually I was fine.
Maybe when I get more money and don't know where to spend it, I'll buy some carbon fibre.
You can post now and register later.
If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.
JustaBill 0
I've done so much, with so little, for so long
I'm now expected to do everything with nothing forever
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites
Stumpy 256
Not necessarily - imagine a low time jumper in teh occasionally cold weather we happen to have here
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites
kallend 1,623
Rubbish. We have MUCH colder winter weather in Chicago and points north than anywhere in the UK. So cold the tears sometimes freeze goggles to your face.
You scenario simply doesn't happen.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10
That said the rational behind the rule is defiantly restriction of the view of your handles. There's a lot of people who think the rule is a little outdated given the care most of today's helmet manufacturers take to ensure the handles remain visible.
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites
maestro 0
I even taped up the ear vents and the holes in the top cos my hair would come through then matt up on the outside of the helmet aaargh!!
My old protec saved me from a fair few scrapes from bad landings and riser slaps, it does give the best bumper protection, but as soon as I got my B License (50 jumps plus IC1) I ditched my faithful protec and got a factory diver full face. Best decision I've made yet; I can concentrate so much more, hear my audible and not have to worry from my nose freezing over from the cold British skies!
I'd definately recommend a protec for at least your first 50 jumps, until you've stopped falling over and have more of an awareness of who's around you, both in freefall and under canopy.
Don't worry about not having the latest ultra-cool shiny black ice-cream tub on your head just to keep up with the cool and trendies, it doesn't look good covered in scratches and nobody worth their salt will say anything. My friend has over 200 jumps and still wears her trusty blue protec, even though she has the money to get a new one!
Kay x
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites
Liemberg 0
[rant]
Now what I find silly is why people who couldn't get back into formations even if their life depended on it once they let go the initial grips, would want to wear something that might fog and restrict their vision anytime during the skydive. The full-face came 'en vogue' when the top teams found out they were turning points so fast and so close they needed facial protection against their teammates knees and feet.
Next thing you know everyone is wearing them even when a protec (or a simple yet toroughly tested ski-helmet) does the same job much better at a fraction of the cost. Only recently I saw someone after a funneled exit wrestle his way back into the formation for the entire rest of the skydive. Didn't make it, despite booties and a full face helmet. (& yes, he missed the count, thus causing the funnel himself...)
AND, if you NEED your full face helmet on landing, your canopy-skills stink, IMHO...
You all can do the math on the amount of skydives you can buy for the price-difference, thus improving your skills...
I bet that some of you could be convinced to jump with an LCD screen + tongue controlled menu structure or a head up display against the inside of your full face...
[/rant]
Ah, that felt good...
(But if they can find all the handles and it makes them happy I see no need for a 50 jump rule...)
"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites
Stumpy 256
Huh?
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=330060;search_string=visor%20ice;#330060
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites
ps5601 0
As such the BPA decided that you needed 50 jumps before you could jump a full face. They didn't want low timers spooked by not being able to find their handles. They were also worried that, as they have limited experience under canopy they may be flying around with restricted vision, and limited hearing.
The helmets on the market today are much better, but some people still jump the old styles. Having rules that say "you can jump a Z1, but not an old style Oxygen" is a pain, so they have a blanket ban.
BTW, we are not allowed to cloud bust in the UK. The ops manual states that you must be able to see you planned opening point and landing point from your exit point. It is the responsibility of the jump master to ensure that no-one then goes through the cloud. Ever noticed that when it's cloudy the jump masters are generally not the instructors with ratings to lose?
Blue skies
Paul
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites
Dumpster 0
There's enough room in the ear pocket - Just hold it in place with a rubber band or something. Actually, I taped up the holes in my Pro-Tech and just stick my Pro-Dytter in there while donning the hemet. Have to be careful when you pull your helmet off that it doesn't come falling out.
Easy Does It
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10
But it says nothing about any cloud between your exit point and you opening point. You can pass through as much cloud as you like (per ops manual anyway) so long as at the time that you exit you can see both your opening point and your landing point.
There are plenty of circumstances when you can pass through cloud on the way down but still be able to see your opening point and the DZ from the plane.
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites
riggerrob 558
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The solution to falling audible altimeters is more duct tape.
It has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together.
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites
Nightingale 0
Personally, I use a bonehead helmet, because I have a very good friend who impacted the tail of a caravan wearing a bonehead helmet, remained conscious, pulled for himself and walked away with a few stitches. There was a crack in the helmet, and some damage to the plane, but he walked away. Had he not been wearing a helmet, he'd have died, no question about it.
I've also seen the abuse my cousin puts his pro-tec through (he's a skateboarder), and would feel fine jumping with either a bonehead or a pro-tec.
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites
FrogNog 1
There isn't a place for one; the jumper would have to add it. I've seen some velcro-and-webbing extra-helmet audible holders. I can't seem to buy one, though, so I have to look into making one.
Basically, it isn't going to be easy.
Maybe I should, or maybe I will convert to a different kind of helmet. But for now I'm sold on my pro-tec because in the same week early on in my studenthood two things happened:
1. I lost my helmet. I couldn't find it anywhere. Finally I checked my head and, sure enough, I was wearing it.
2. I whacked the top of my head on the airplane on the ground good. On feeling the impact, my first thought was "oh, here comes the PAIN!" But actually I was fine.
Maybe when I get more money and don't know where to spend it, I'll buy some carbon fibre.
-=-=-=-=-
Pull.
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites