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Kritterchef

When to buy and when to rent?

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It depends very much on weight, if this person is 100lbs dripping wet, then a 170 is no problem at all.

I am probably 220 out of the door and that 210 you are flying would be a little small for me.

Personally I am gonna get at least 50 jumps on rental gear and find out what is suitable first.

As always speak to your instructors
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Like the others have said, a lot is dependant on your weight, so i won't give any advice regarding what size of canopy to buy and as always, your instructors are best suited to giving this kind of advice.

That said, the way that i advise most newbies to go about it is thus:

Start with your peripheral gear. Buy yourself a helmet, an alti, a pair of goggles, a jumpsuit and perhaps a dytter/ pro-track when the time is right.

Spend the balance of the money that you have on jumps, get your skills and your numbers up.

Then, when you have about 50 jumps or so consult your instructors as to what size canopy you should be buying.

The thing is you're progressing at such a rate right now that a canopy you buy will be behind your skills by the time you reach 50 or so jumps. By the time you get there you should be ready for a canopy that will last you for the next few hundred.

For example:

I started on 290's and 260's, then at around 30 jumps went down to a 200 for a few and by the time i hit 50 i was jumping a 170. I still jump this canopy and am now only considering a downsize.

There's nothing wrong with taking it slow in this sport, it will save your life.

And you're making a wise choice buying used. The used gear market is so big in the US that you can find loads of really well priced gear that's in really good shape.

But as always, ask your instructors :)
Good luck and have fun!

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Hey Kritter, see you posted when you got off work. At your weight out the door, I would not go for a 170 when you purchase. I know you are trying to save money, but a properly sized canopy is cheaper than an injury. If you look for a 7 cell 210, it would be a good canopy to get your landings rock solid. Once they are, a 9 cell 190 would fit in the container as it would have about the same pack volume. You would be able to sell the 7 cell 210 pretty easily since it is a common first size canopy for new jumpers and big boys down sizing. A canopy only loses about a dollar per jump in value. The 190 would be close to a 1:1 wing loading for you. If you have any questions, PM me or I'll see you at Hollister on Saturday.
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Depends how much your rentals cost. I was paying 50 bucks a day to rent so I could afford to stay on rental til about 30 or 40 jumps. Even then, I sort of went onto my own gear a little early(my main was a little too small for my skill level).

But if you're paying 30 bucks a hop to rent you could buy a used rig, use it for 50 jumps, then sell it for a little less than you bought it and you'd be saving a lot of money.

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And you're making a wise choice buying used. The used gear market is so big in the US that you can find loads of really well priced gear that's in really good shape.



Gear suitable for newer jumpers holds its resale value pretty well, even if purchased new. It's the small stuff that depreciates quickly.

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The used gear market is so big in the US that you can find loads of really well priced gear that's in really good shape.



You sure can, if the canopies are 170 or smaller. Used rigs with 190 and larger mains are nowhere near as common, and usually sell really, really fast if they are fairly priced.

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I'm a student on a 170. When I buy a rig I think I want to buy new one but not sure if it makes any sense. Would it be hard to sell when I'm ready to downsize? And does the size of your current container matter when you're downsizing??

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Would it be hard to sell when I'm ready to downsize? And does the size of your current container matter when you're downsizing??



The hard ones to sell are the small ones - i.e. 135 or smaller.

In most containers you can safely go down at least one main canopy size from what the container was built for. Downsize one size at a time and you likely won't need a new container for a long time.

You may also choose not to downsize in the future - not everyone wants or needs to. There's nothing wrong with flying a canopy loaded around 1.0-1.1 for your entire skydiving career.

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You can buy a used system or a new/used combo.

With a little planning and foresight, you can go through the downsizing gracefully without compromising too much "out of pocket".

In many cases, you can sell a 190 main for example and buy a used 170 for the same price.

The planning and foresight is in the rig. Get a rig that fits your body and the canopy you are jumping right now. It should be able to accomodate a downsize or two.

The Spectre in particular has a low pack volume. So it's often a good choice in a rig that you are setting up with future downsize in mind.

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.

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Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

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buying new gear early in your skydiving career might not make as much sense as waiting until you're ready to get something you'll have for a while. The first few downsizes for new jumpers tend to happen fairly quickly, the but length of time usually increases greatly between each downsize once you've gotten to higher performance gear.

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I am also a student looking for gear. I have a different problem, I am looking for used gear but cant find anything that fits! I dont mind renting but even the rental is a little big. I am 5 feet tall, 110 lbs and it's not easy finding a small container with a really smal harness to hold a 190. Any advise?
Breathe out so I can breathe you in...

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I am 5 feet tall, 110 lbs and it's not easy finding a small container with a really smal harness to hold a 190. Any advise?



Get a new container and fill it with used canopies and AAD.

Question - why a 190? At 110 pounds body weight, even allowing for 10 or so pounds of lead you aren't out the door over 140-145. I'm all for conservative gear selection, but I think you'd be better served in the long run with a 170 (or possibly even a 150). What have you been jumping?

Something else "not tall" people who want larger canopies need to consider is the overall length of the container. Assuming the same size main and reserve canopies, some brands of containers are longer top to bottom than others. A container that is longer than your back can interfere with flying your body. One container that I've seen work well for these situations is the Wings; their non-EXT models are shorter top to bottom and fatter back to front than are most other rigs on the market.

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I already have a used PD 190 so that is why I wanted a container that would fit a 190 and that would allow me to downsize a little to a 170 or 150. I have been flying a 210 because that is the smallest student parachute they have at my dz. I have tried Quasar containers and have found they are a little long but I am looking into buying a Mirage. I wanted to be practicle on my first rig but it seems impossible at this point to find a used one that fits.
Breathe out so I can breathe you in...

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i'm about 145 pounds and 5'9 with 28 jumps and i'm on a 150. actually i trade out between renting the 170 and 150 because the 150 container fits sooo small and tight but i like how the canopy flies over the 170. the 170 container fits perfect though. right now if i had my wish i would have a 150 canopy in a 170 container if thats possible. or i'm sure they can do something about the length of those straps on the 150 container. i started off on a 240 and did my IAF on that and then for like my 2nd or 3rd solo i went to a 190. i thought that was fast at first too ha. o goodness. am i at a good canopy size on the 150? i keep feeling like i could go smaller but i don't want to rush my skills cause i know i'm still really new to the sport. but then again i don't know if i'm still a little big on the 150 or not.

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(in response to the message from the 110lb person)

A 190 is a big canopy for someone your size...

I'm about 150 out the door and was put on a 190 initially. My instructors had me down to a 170 by level 3 and a 150 by level 12.

I'm not saying this is the right progression for everyone (in other words, talk to your instructors because I have no idea what I'm talking about for the most part)... but you will most likely want to downsize pretty soon. I personally would have been very unhappy had I purchased a rig right off student status (or even worse - during)... as I'd have ended up with something I would have wanted to replace almost right away.

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I already have a used PD 190 so that is why I wanted a container that would fit a 190 and that would allow me to downsize a little to a 170 or 150.



A container sized for a 170 sq ft zero porosity main will hold your PD190 (F111, right?) just fine. You can easily downsize to a 150 sq ft zp main in the same container later.

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I'm having the exact same problem - I'm 5'3", 110 and none of the student/rental gear ever seems to fit. The people at Tecumseh were nice enough to repack a smaller rental rig for me, but I'm looking for something to buy. I've run across a few Javelin J1 A-14s that I think will fit both me and a 170 canopy, but I'm pretty sure I want a PD 160 reserve... I found Wings containers 35% off through the 15th and I'm considering just ordering a new one because I'm so tired of looking. I've read a couple of places (including here) that Wings tend to be a little shorter, which would be really nice. Although, after making a bunch of jumps on 260/230 student gear, just about anything will be an improvement fit-wise.

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If you're 145 body weight, you're at about 1.1 wingloading on a 150. That's plenty aggressive for 28 jumps. USPA considers wingloadings over 0.9 on a 150 to be "advanced" (see Section 6-10 of the 2006 USPA Skydiver's Information Manual for more details on that).

At a minimum, you should be able to do everything on billvon's list with your current canopy prior to downsizing. If the thought of doing any of the items on that list with your current canopy scares you, then your current canopy is too small for your current ability level.

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Your lucky that they had a smaller rig for you, I using the smallest they have and it is still too big for me. Safety wise Im fine, but comfort and bruising is my problem. Maybe Im just jumping the gun but I just want something that fits. I wanted to buy used gear but that's impossible (i think everyone in this sport is 5"8 180 lbs) lol!:ph34r::ph34r:
Breathe out so I can breathe you in...

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What kind of rental gear do you guys have? We have all Wings containers that are adjustable - I'm 5'4" and one of the other novices is well over 6' (probably 6'3" at least) and all of the containers adjust to fit both of us!
How is it that we put man on the moon before we figured out it would be a good idea to put wheels on luggage?

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Quasar rigs, They are adjusted as small as we can get them with out having to alter. I jump at a small dz in Florida and there is not that many students there that are as short as I. Weight wise, sure but not shortness. :S
Breathe out so I can breathe you in...

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