thepollster 0 #51 December 16, 2005 I stand corrected. Maybe back then they thought airlocks would sell. I'm not knocking them, but it seems not enough jumpers want them to warrant them trying to compete with Brian Germaine for that market share. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudi 0 #52 December 17, 2005 QuoteIf it was really important to them you’d think they’d have perfected them by now. If wanting something were all it took... I'm not trying to argue with you, it is pretty aggravating that it's taking so long, but no one feels it more than the engineers and canopy designers at PD. They are working their butts off on these canopies. Sure, they could put them out there right now and most people would be pretty happy with them. Why do they keep working on them then? Because they believe in doing it right, not doing it "right now." They want to put out Katanas, not "Almostas." Sorry that putting out a quality product pisses so many people off, but PD won't change that just to please a few people who can't understand that anything worth doing is worth doing right. Personally, I respect that and wouldn't want it any other way. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #53 December 19, 2005 Aerodyne has just released the Mamba and it comes in our sizes up to a 150. Check your pmDom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #54 December 19, 2005 QuoteAerodyne has just released the Mamba and it comes in our sizes up to a 150. When PD was testing the smaller Katana, there were several jumpers putting hundreds of jumps per month on the prototype canopies. The number of jumps on the Katana prototypes far exceeded what a single 4 way team does in a season. If PD rushed their R&D, all sizes would likely be out now. But then, they would not be of the quality normally associated with PD. There is a reason PD doesn't need to give up an iPod or a pair of Gatorz to sell their canopies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #55 December 19, 2005 I don't call 1500 jumps a little number. Plus the jumps that Employees have done on them (Mamba's).Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #56 December 19, 2005 QuoteThere is a reason PD doesn't need to give up an iPod or a pair of Gatorz to sell their canopies. If spreading a litttle christmas cheer is wrong then....... oh well. Before you try to insinuate anything, why not try it 1st!Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #57 December 19, 2005 QuoteI don't call 1500 jumps a little number. Plus the jumps that Employees have done on them (Mamba's). 1500 jumps is not a little number, but it pales in comparison to the test jumps on Katana prototypes. I know of one freefly team that put 200+ jumps each on their prototypes in a single month, and they were but a small portion of the test jumpers. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #58 December 19, 2005 Quote1500 jumps is not a little number, but it pales in comparison to the test jumps on Katana prototypes. How many jumps does it take? They can do 50,000 jumps if they want to. After a certain number (what ever that may be) what is the purpose? We figured out that the canopy works, that opens reliably and far superior then our competitors and lands very nice. We put more jumps on them then most people will in a lifetime of jumping and they are still going strong.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #59 December 19, 2005 QuoteQuoteThere is a reason PD doesn't need to give up an iPod or a pair of Gatorz to sell their canopies. If spreading a litttle christmas cheer is wrong then....... oh well. Before you try to insinuate anything, why not try it 1st! Sorry. I get a little tired of marketing gimmicks. They make it harder to give good, pertinent information to customers. Do you really think that someone should choose a canopy based on what kind of free stuff comes with it? Personally, I think people should choose a canopy based on opening, flight and landing characteristics. If they buy a Mamba for those reasons, more power to them. Choosing a canopy because it comes with a free pair of shades is the wrong reason. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #60 December 19, 2005 Well if the canopy is just as good (which it is,if not better in many ways). Then it gives people an extra incentive to buy our product. What's wrong with that? QuoteThey make it harder to give good, pertinent information to customers. I say again. Try one!!!Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #61 December 19, 2005 QuoteHow many jumps does it take? They can do 50,000 jumps if they want to. After a certain number (what ever that may be) what is the purpose? We figured out that the canopy works, that opens reliably and far superior then our competitors and lands very nice. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the Mamba. There is, however, a reason PD has such a great reputation. The test the shit out of stuff. If you think 1500 jumps is enough for the R&D of a high performance canopy, fine. I don't think the folks at PD would consider that enough. They will release the larger Katana models when they are perfected, not merely good enough. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #62 December 19, 2005 QuoteWell if the canopy is just as good (which it is,if not better in many ways). Then it gives people an extra incentive to buy our product. What's wrong with that? QuoteThey make it harder to give good, pertinent information to customers. I say again. Try one!!! If the canopy is just as good, if not better, then they should sell based on that superior quality, not to mention a slightly lower price. No need for marketing gimmicks if the product is as good as you say it is. Personally, I have no use for a canopy of that class, so I'll not be jumping the Mamba or the Katana any time soon. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #63 December 19, 2005 QuotePersonally, I have no use for a canopy of that class, so I'll not be jumping the Mamba or the Katana any time soon. Have you even jumped a Katana?Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #64 December 19, 2005 QuoteIf the canopy is just as good, if not better, then they should sell based on that superior quality, not to mention a slightly lower price. No need for marketing gimmicks if the product is as good as you say it is. Marketing is half the battle for any product. The other half is a good quality product. We can market anyway we want to, but if we don't put out a good product then nothing we do will work. Why not advertise cheaper prices? Our prices are cheaper. What is the 1st thing a skydiver asks for when trying to buy something? "What is the best price you can give me?" You have been in the industry to know that skydivers want to spend a little, not a lot. Most of them are scraping together money to buy gear and if we can offer our product at a cheaper price then why shouldn't we? You don't give skydivers enough credit. They will smell a lemon if it is there. i don't know of one skydiver out there that will buy any product just because you are giving them a gift for doing so, but, they will take a closer look at it if you do and that is all we want. Demo the canopy and if you like it buy it and more power to them if they get gift for doing so. It is our way of saying thanks.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #65 December 19, 2005 Nope. I have to rely on many first hand comments from the test jumpers that helped develop the canopy. I know they put a shit load of jumps on the prototypes. I also know that as much as they were jumping, PD wanted even more test jumps. It was not uncommon to see John Leblanc himself jumping the prototypes, in order to get even more jumper feedback. If you read my posts, my point has been how extensively PD tests their products. You claim such extensive testing is overkill. I disagree. It is necessary to make sure they are releasing the very best design they can. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #66 December 19, 2005 QuoteNope. I have to rely on many first hand comments from the test jumpers that helped develop the canopy. So you believe what you are told and not what you know. Seems that marketing does have an affect on you. What do you think they are gonna say about their product? That is why people most demo things and make a decision based on what they know. No amount of marketing is going to make a person buy something if they don't like it, but once again..... if they like our product then they get a thank you from us for jumping it.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #67 December 19, 2005 >We figured out that the canopy works, that opens reliably and far >superior then our competitors and lands very nice. Now, to be fair, the Amax and the Vision could have used a few more test jumps before they were listed as being for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #68 December 19, 2005 I haven't said anything good or bad about either canopy, just how good and thorough the R&D of PD is (remember, this is a thread about PD Katanas). I can assure you that from my perspective, either canopy would be a very poor choice. It doesn't make either canopy bad, it just means that neither canopy is right for me. I know enough about both to understand that without a demo. As I said previously, anyone in the market for a canopy in that class should demo both models, and choose on the canopy's merits. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #69 December 19, 2005 QuoteNow, to be fair, the Amax and the Vision could have used a few more test jumps before they were listed as being for sale. 100% correct Bill. You also know that I jumped a Vision for almost 800 jumps and didn't talk about it very much even though the revisions that where made to it, made it a very different canopy. New leadership and staff at Aerodyne won't let that happen again. We are commited to putting our great products, like the Pilot.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudi 0 #70 December 20, 2005 QuoteSo much for PD checking for appropriate canopy choices... PM sent on the 16th...still waiting for a reply...did you get it? Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casquito 0 #71 December 21, 2005 Quote>We figured out that the canopy works, that opens reliably and far >superior then our competitors and lands very nice. Now, to be fair, the Amax and the Vision could have used a few more test jumps before they were listed as being for sale. It sounds like a Ford vs Chevy argument here and making negative comments about competitors' products isn't the most helpful thing. Now that said, I love my Katana and wouldn't fly anything else, but with all that research, you'd think PD would be able to write the correct Japanese character for Katana on the canopy. It gets all kinds of laughs out of people who can read Japanese because it sure doesn't say Katana. But I fixed mine with some sharpies... I asked PD to fix it before sending me mine but it's still not fixed... not that it matters when you're smoking in under it though... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UntamedDOG 0 #72 December 21, 2005 I think it’s pretty sad when a canopy manufacturer like PD doesn’t have the knowledge and resources to design a canopy at a slightly larger scale. It shows that they don’t know what they are doing. They are still fumbling with it, trying to make it work. Like a bunch of monkeys trying to operate a motor vehicle. Just get a Xfire2, they fly better anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ntacfreefly 0 #73 December 21, 2005 Good thing you don't trust them with your life then? Oh wait, you jump a PD reserve To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1911-a1 0 #74 December 21, 2005 For what it is worth the Katana is a great wing that seems to truly love to fly. I jump a VX and have several thousand jump on them just the same when I have had the chance to jump the Kaatana I was blown away with the way it opened and flew. If you are looking for a mid range canopy do your self a favor and put some jumps on one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #75 December 21, 2005 Quoteyou'd think PD would be able to write the correct Japanese character for Katana on the canopy. I always thought their "character" was FL, meaning Florida. Could just be a coincidence, though. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
