Rumor: Press Enterprise: Elsinore DZ to move or be altered?

[ltdiver 3]

http://news.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=us/5-0&fp=43b39f8bef414afe&ei=JvmzQ9PvIMGaaJOj7bMP&url=http%3A//www.pe.com/localnews/southwest/stories/PE_News_Local_S_shomes28.13473aec.html&cid=0

Flood-plain homes planned

HUNDRED-YEAR EVENT: Backers praise the project's recreational value. Foes say its risky.

07:37 AM PST on Wednesday, December 28, 2005


By SEAN NEALON / The Press-Enterprise


LAKE LEVELS

1,267 feet above sea level: Minimum floor elevation for homes in flood plain

1,265.7: Lake level during 1980 flood

1,263.3: Projected maximum flood level for 100-year flood

1,255: Water begins flowing through outflow channel

1,250.38: Lake elevation as of Dec. 19

1,240: Minimum level for optimum recreation and lake management

1,218: Lake bottom

LAKE ELSINORE - Some call it rooftops and recreation. Others fear it will be rooftops and water.

Those are the differing descriptions of a 1,670-home development that was approved for construction in Lake Elsinore's flood plain.

Supporters say the project will offer home buyers an attractive mix of nearby recreational opportunities. Opponents say the homes could be under water if the lake rises like it did in 1980.

Developer Leonard Leichnitz of Lumos Communities in Lake Elsinore is emphasizing the recreational possibilities.

Leichnitz said he is working with owners of the city's motocross park and skydiving center that must be moved or altered to make room for the housing. The owners of both are willing to accommodate the project and believe their sites will be improved because of the project.

Leichnitz also said he has had initial discussions with developers interested in building a water park and regional soccer venue.

Construction of the 600-home first phase will begin in 18 months, Leichnitz said. He expects all the homes to be built in five to eight years. They will range from condominiums to 4,000-square-foot estate homes around a man-made lake. The average lot size will be about 6,000 square feet. City Council members unanimously approved the project Dec. 13. They like how it incorporates recreational uses and believe it will stimulate commercial growth at the city's south end, around Diamond Stadium, home of the city's minor league baseball team. The council also approved a 1,400-home project in the same area last year.

Related
Flood-plain homes planned

Motocross, skydiving facilities plan move

Council members and Leichnitz don't expect problems with the Lumos Communities project because of a lake-management program started by the county and city after 1980 to prevent flooding and stabilize lake levels. They also say the homes will have to be built at levels too high to be flooded.

Chris Hyland, who has closely watched the lake for 19 years, is among residents who are not convinced.

"They can say what they want to," Hyland said by telephone. "All it is, is totally irresponsible."

Past Floods

The flood plain, which is lower than surrounding land, is at the southeastern end of the lake. The most recent serious flood there came in 1980, when the lake rose almost 2 feet above the 100-year flood level of 1,263.3 feet above sea level. Homes near downtown were flooded and 900 residents were evacuated.

Since the 1980 flood, county and city officials developed the lake-management project that built a 17,800-foot levee at the southeastern end of the lake, near the future housing developments. An outflow channel also was improved at the lake's northern end to route excess water out of the lake and into Temescal Wash, officials said.

The outflow channel, which was completed in 1994, goes into use when the lake level reaches 1,255 feet above sea level. That happened in 1995 when the lake rose to 1,259.1 feet, said Dusty Williams, general manager of the Riverside County Flood Control and Water Conservation District, in a telephone interview. At that time, the channel was able to control potential flooding, he said.

Earlier this year the lake came within inches of 1,255 feet above sea level when it rose 18 feet in about four months, Williams said. Over the course of 100 years, the lake is expected to rise to 1,263.3 feet above sea level at least once, officials have determined.


Paul Alvarez / The Press-Enterprise
A 1,670-home development was approved for construction in Lake Elsinore's flood plain. Randy Hiner, left, is vice president of Lake Elsinore Motocross Park, Karl Gulledge is a co-owner of Skydive Elsinore, and Leonard Leichnitz is the developer with Lumos Communities. Leichnitz said he is working with the owners of the city's motocross park and skydiving center, which will need to be moved or altered to make room.
Excavation

In addition to the Lumos Communities project, another is planned. John Laing Homes of Newport Beach is building 1,400 homes and an 18-hole golf course in the flood plain.

Both developers must build homes at a minimum 1,267 feet above sea level, almost 4 feet above the 100-year level, according to city requirements.

Because the homes would essentially be "individual islands" surrounded by the flood plain, flood insurance would not be mandatory for homeowners, Williams said. All homeowners would be able to get flood insurance because the county is enrolled in the National Flood Insurance Program, he said.

Leichnitz said most of his property is between 1,250 and 1,260 feet above sea level.

He plans to meet the 1,267-foot minimum by excavating dirt in the recreation areas and using it to elevate the homes. Regulations limit his ability to bring in fill from outside the site because it would mean less space for water during a flood. For example, every bucket of dirt brought into the flood plain will displace an equal amount of water during a flood and enlarge the flood plain.

A John Laing representative could not be reached for comment. City officials said that displacement of dirt for the golf course would help elevate homes at that project.

City Council members didn't voice any concerns about the home elevations before approving the project. Reached after the meeting by telephone, Mayor Bob Magee said that technical experts advised the city the 1,267-foot minimum is a safe elevation for building.

Councilman Thomas Buckley said by telephone the houses would be protected but added, "We just have to watch it very carefully."

Affected businesses have also not voiced concerns.

Lake Elsinore Motocross Park currently is on leased land where the Lumos Communities homes will go up. It will move to a site about one-third of a mile away from its current location and essentially will be in a 25-foot-deep hole at the development's southern end.

Randy Hiner, the park's vice president, who supports the Lumos Communities project, said there is a benefit to being in the hole. It will help offset one of the main complaints about the motocross park: noise.


Illustration: Click to enlarge
'It's Ridiculous'

Two residents, including Pete Dawson, spoke against the Lumos project before the City Council approved it earlier this month.

Dawson, who owns a boat shop and marina on Grand Avenue, said noise would not be an issue if the motocross park, surrounding recreational facilities and homes were under water. Dawson, who has lived in the area since 1964, remembers the 1980 flood. He went waterskiing where the homes will be built.

"It doesn't make sense to me to put a house where water once was," Dawson said by telephone.

Robert Vermillion also remembers that flood. Vermillion, a City Council member from 1984 to 1988, has been a critic of flood-management policies since his Corydon Street home was flooded in 1980.

He believes the depth of the water-table level may limit developers' excavation plans. He also says recent upstream development -- in communities such as Canyon Lake, Sun City and Menifee -- has created more runoff water flowing into the lake.

"I've been against the houses because it's ridiculous," Vermillion said by telephone.

He fears the homes will flood, the homeowners will sue, the city will have to spend taxpayers' money for legal expenses and residents will lose city services.

Reach Sean Nealon at (951) 375-3730 or [email protected]

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[UntamedDOG 0]

How will this affect the dropzone?

[gravitational 0]

if the housing development goes in, they'll just have more people that will bitch about airport noise like any other airport around the country. Duh! you moved next to an airport and plane make noise.

[riggerrob 558]

Hee!
Hee!
Southern Californians have such short memories!
Every time it rains heavily, Lake Elsinore floods.
Period!
Flood plains are great for recreation: golf, motocross, skydiving, etc.
... but only a fool would build a house on a flood plain.
Even the old farmers - on the Fraser River flood plain - have the good sense to build garages under their houses. The wiser farmers limit the contents of their garages to stuff - on wheels - that can be moved quickly.
My apartment building may be up on a sandy plateau (in Pitt Meadows), but the ground floor is still only used as a garage.

If Elsinore City Hall is smart, they will only issue building permits for houses that only use their ground floors for garages.
But I still think that building houses on a flood plain is dumb.

[JohnnyD 0]

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But I still think that building houses on a flood plain is dumb.

Also, the high cost of housing in that region forces a lot of people into PMI. I wonder how tough it would be to get insurance if your house is in a flood plain. One house I looked at in SD was in a flood plain and I couldn't buy it if I was going to be forced into PMI.

[ladyskydiver 0]

I'd be surprised if an insurance company would give them insurance knowing that it is a flood plain.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[laurie 0]

Here's another article that was just sent to me...

Motocross, skydiving facilities plan move
DEVELOPMENT: The Lake Elsinore attractions will relocate short distances to make room for homes.



06:53 AM PST on Wednesday, December 28, 2005
By SEAN NEALON / The Press-Enterprise

LAKE ELSINORE - A housing development at the lake's southeastern end is expected to force the relocation in the next year of two of the city's major tourist-attracting businesses.

Skydive Elsinore, which draws 85,000 people per year, is expected to move a quarter-mile to the south, just outside the housing development's boundary. Its current location will become an extension of Diamond Drive, which will have entrances to the 400-acre, 1,670-home development.

Lake Elsinore Motocross Park, which draws 360,000 riders per year, is expected to move a third of a mile to the south and be in the development's 200-acre recreation area. Its current location will be covered by homes.

Both businesses may be closed for a short time during the move, the developer and business owners said.

The motocross park and skydiving facility lease land from the developer, Lumos Communities, which bought it two years ago.

Since then, Leonard Leichnitz, Lumos president, and the business owners have been negotiating a deal that allows homes to be built and the businesses to remain nearby.

The plan impressed City Council members, who unanimously approved it Dec. 13.

"I think it's going to be a very desirable place to live," Mayor Bob Magee said by telephone. "We're going to have a very active community down there."

Skydive Elsinore opened 60 years ago and is one of the oldest sports skydiving facilities in the world. It employs 65 people and draws skydivers from around the world, said Karl Gulledge, co-owner of Skydive Elsinore.

Skydive Elsinore plans to relocate late next year from its current facility, which is made up of more than a dozen mobile homes and tents, to a hangar next to a new airport being built a quarter-mile to the south.

"That way we'll have everything indoors and in a permanent facility," Gulledge said.

The motocross park was built in 1999. Its ridership has grown by about 20 percent per year since then, said Randy Hiner, park vice president. He said it has more than 60 employees.

The park will move from its current 93-acre site to one that likely will have 49 acres, Hiner said. Despite this, he said there still would be nine tracks for riders of all levels. This is possible because the park is not currently using its entire 93-acre site, he said.

Reach Sean Nealon at (951) 375-3730 or [email protected]

Related Stories:

Flood-plain homes planned

Motocross, skydiving facilities plan move

http://www.pe.com/localnews/southwest/stories/PE_News_Local_S_shomesside28.13473c27.html

[pincheck 0]

does seem kinda dumb but no doubt they will sell the properties to people who cant get insurance

Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun

[FrogNog 1]

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I'd be surprised if an insurance company would give them insurance knowing that it is a flood plain.

I believe there is federal government flood insurance for people who are in flood plains. (See, they can't get it from private insurers, so they need help...) I reckon they should change that to federal government move-somewhere-else grants.

I see nothing wrong with building a home on a floodplain if the lowest part of the foundation is above the 100-year floodpoint. But I guess most people would rather build low, hope, and rebuild than build a house sticking up in the air.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[Dougiefresh 0]

So I just Google mapped this, and I don't see where the dz is going to go. The article says "1/3 mile to the south", but that's all built up. Do they mean southwest, maybe across grand avenue? Or are they just going to leave the runway and put the dz buildings on the other side?

edit: just looked closer. 1/3 of a mile is not even close to grand ave. Putting the buildings across corydon road is more like it.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams

[Andy9o8 0]

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I'd be surprised if an insurance company would give them insurance knowing that it is a flood plain.

Actually, that might not be the case. Standard homeowners' insurance does not cover floods. You need separate flood insurance. So if your home or any of its contents are damaged or destroyed by or due to floods, the standard homeowner's insurance policy won't cover it anyway, so there really is not much more risk to the insurance company in exchange for your premium. At best, your premium might be a little higher to offset the anticipated legal costs of defending against homeowners trying (and usually failing) to get paid under their homeowners' policies for flood damage.

Edit: I will grant you that PMI will probably be more costly, maybe prohibitively so for some.

[lawrocket 3]

Flood insurance is controlled by the Feds. I think it's also capped out at $250k.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andy9o8 0]

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Flood insurance is controlled by the Feds.

Yeah. Can the Feds opt not to underwrite risks, or must they accept all applicants?

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I think it's also capped out at $250k.

Hm. Can't buy much house in So. Cal. for 250, can you?

[Amazon 7]

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I see nothing wrong with building a home on a floodplain if the lowest part of the foundation is above the 100-year floodpoint. But I guess most people would rather build low, hope, and rebuild than build a house sticking up in the air

And about that time.. a 500 or 1000 year flood always comes along... realllly dumb idea... no matter how much flood mitigation you do.. eventually a flood will come along you cant plan for.. you just need the right weather pattern to hit and voila... and the more you develop an area.. the more severe the floods become because the water cant go into the ground.... it runs off even worse.

Just put the houses on 20' stilts... they should rock really well in the earthquakes

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[jumpinfarmer 0]

All I can say is development is a cancer on society.

[itllclear 1]

There's a dirt path that parallels the runways, about 1/3 mile s.w.

I think that's where the new runway is going to be.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.630307,-117.302055&spn=0.013544,0.027479&t=k&hl=en

"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."

"Your statement answered your question."

[ltdiver 3]

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There's a dirt path that parallels the runways, about 1/3 mile s.w.

I think that's where the new runway is going to be.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.630307,-117.302055&spn=0.013544,0.027479&t=k&hl=en

I'd say everybody's landing accuracy better shape up a bit.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[UntamedDOG 0]

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Skydive Elsinore, which draws 85,000 people per year, is expected to move a quarter-mile to the south

So after all the denials from management, the rumors of Elsinore moving are in fact true.
Someone should call the DZO out on his fibbing.

[CrazyL 0]

Duh. The dropzone itself consists of mostly trailers capable of being towed out of there in case a flood comes. It will flood again. Someday those who live in the flood plain with boats can water ski in their front yard, literally.

[Shark 0]

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Someone should call the DZO out on his fibbing.

If you had the balls you wouldn't leave it to someone else.

[gravitational 0]

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Someone should call the DZO out on his fibbing.

If you had the balls you wouldn't leave it to someone else.

He's been neutered...

[VectorBoy 0]

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if the housing development goes in, they'll just have more people that will bitch about airport noise like any other airport around the country. Duh! you moved next to an airport and plane make noise.

Even Perris has a good amount of developement going on around it. It will be interesting to see how nice the neighbors will be in years to come.

[laurie 0]

The rumors had been that Elsinore was closing...that's not true, it's moving...when I contacted the city and a builder in question, they were trying to secure the future of skydiving...that was true, so far...therefore I feel no need to confront mangement on fibbing.

[Reginald 0]

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All I can say is development is a cancer on society.

So, you live in a cave?

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[AndyMan 7]

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All I can say is development is a cancer on society.

So, you live in a cave?

Yah, seriously.

Development is society.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.