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pilotdave

First rig: Which is kept longer, new or used?

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I almost always suggest to new jumpers to buy used for their first rig. Most people downsize pretty soon, can't pack slippery ZP very well, and are more likely to get their rig dirty, etc.

But I started wondering... do people that buy brand new custom containers for their first rig keep their first main longer? How about brand new first canopy? Do they spend more time on it before they downsize? I'm thinking that whether the main is new or used, if it fits in their custom, comfortable container, they'll have less of a desire to go out and buy something else as quickly as someone with an ugly, non-custom-fitted older container. When people get tired of their container, they're probably more likely to look at getting a smaller main at the same time.

People with brand new mains that finally get them worn in and are able to pack them might be less likely to want to go out and start over again with another new main. And they might be less likely to want to go from their custom colored new main to someone elses used main.

On the other hand, maybe people with newer, more valuable mains are more likely to want to sell them while they still hold a lot of their value. They know they can probably put one or two size smaller mains in the same container, and they can make the downsize at very little overall cost if they sell their still fresh first main.

So did you buy new or used for your first main and container? How many jumps did you put on your first main?

Is buying new an effective way to prevent over-eager downsizing?

On the poll, answer twice: first canopy and first container.

Is my poll horribly flawed?

Dave

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purchased both new, but the main was a 150 spectre and I still have it. I think the order was in around 35-40 jumps. received the gear around either 75 or 100 jumps. Purchased another rig with a 132 pilot. I will fly both, but one rig will be dedicated to my wingsuit. at least until i figure out which system or container or canopy I want to keep in the end.

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

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I bought everything used. Did 100ish jumps on it all. Then my husband's canopy needed to be retired (very very old and dead Falcon that led to one cutaway and a near second 2 jumps later). It wasn't worth the money to reline it.

So, he got my hand me down canopy (a downsize for him) and I bought a new Spectre and have about 50 jumps on it now (I have no problem packing new ZP now!).

We probably both would have kept our canopies much longer if it hadn't been for his issues though. It sure was a good excuse for me to by new gear B| We both still jump our original containers and have no desire to buy a new one.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

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I'm actually going to answer from the perspective of a gear dealer.

I sell more new systems to first time jumpers (in my region) than used.

Not because I think it's better to go new. But often the appropriate fit and size in modern sport gear is not available.

I take special consideration to make sure the buyer gets the best value. That usually includes pairing a used main parachute with a new custom built container. Also we consider a likely downsize.

But yes. I DO think that the buyer who gets a brand new rig stays on it longer than one who buys used. The used gear buyer is focused on working their way past their initial set up. The new gear buyer seems to take better care of their gear and are in no rush to "go to the next level".

There is no blanket choice for buying your first rig. Every individual is different. But there are some guidelines to take into consideration to find the best set-up for each individuals experience level, currency, budget and goals.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

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i bought my first rig new except for the reserve. i put 400 jumps on the system over 4 years before i sold it in its entirety. i then bought a new container and a used main and a used reserve.

i don't know if buying new or used affects ones downsizing. it's an interesting question and i think it has much to do with a number of variables.
"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

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My container was practically brand new when I bought it (10 jumps). I have put about 180 jumps on it (and the canopy) and will probably put another couple hundred on the canopy before I even think about a downsize.

I've had a few modifications done to it to make it more comfortable for me (switched out B-12 snaps for step-throughs, and had a longer chest strap put on). The only reason I can see for not keeping this container for a long time is vanity ... the colors are kind of blah and it has another person's name stitched into it. However, it'll be good for at least one, possibly two downsizes and really, except for wanting to look cooler with all matching gear, there's no great reason for me to get a new one. However, if my container weren't in such great shape/such a great fit, I might be more inclined to look for something new. I don't think it would impact my canopy decision, though. I'm in no hurry to downsize (canopy was bought used with about 450 jumps on it, so it's very packable).
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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I kbought my first container in 1991 and had it reconstructed (due to premature fading) in1992 and still have it. It probably has 1500 jumps on it and is still very air worthy. I bought a 2nd rig in 2000 and it looks brand new. I switch back and forth with them now to keep the packing of the reserve to a minimum.

Skydiving gave me a reason to live
I'm not afraid of what I'll miss when I die...I'm afraid of what I'll miss as I live






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I bought all used! Got a great deal on a used container with only 75 jumps on it (Mirage). I'm looking to replace the main in the spring as it's a Falcon 215 and I'd like something ZP. But aside from that I intend to keep this setup for a long time.

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I got all new except for the AAD.. I looked alot but was not able to find something as comfortable as the gear I had been renting along with the canopy that I have been jumping and really like.
I ended up getting a new mirage, Pilot 168 and PD 160..
I did my major amount of downsizing on rental gear (down to 1.1)
before I decided to commit to a canopy for a while.. I had a lot of apprehension on buying new.. but Im am very happy and can support a couple downsizes if I choose to do that.. So I should be good with this container for a while..
I also got such a good deal that If I choose to sell.. I should be able to get very close to what I paid for it..
Those deals are out there if you look.. It was new.. but pieced together by Bonnie at gravity gear..

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Ive put over 200 jumps on my first set of gear:
Teardrop classic (DOM 1989!!)
sabre 170

Still all in good nic. I havent downsized because Ive been a student for the last 4 years, and have only just graduated. But a brand new wings with pilot 150 will be on order soon :)

My girlfriend just ordered her first rig. Wings/pilot 168/cypres 2 and shes scared enough to downsize to a 200, so I think she'll be happy keeping this rig for a while. She asked for the container to be made for a smaller canopy, making it more downsizeable. Though packing might be fun.

UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs.

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Since I don't have 200 jumps yet I cannot say much but I LOVE my used reflex rig. It fits me very well and I have a beautiful, used hornet 170 in it with brand spanking new brake lines. Its a joy to fly and to pack and I haven't even considered buying new yet. Though my SO hints that he might purchase me a new rig and canopy for my graduation from nursing school (I think I'll go glam. . .lol)
________________________________________
Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ
FGF #6
Darcy

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Well, after 152 votes, there's a little data to work with.

Used container:
<200 jumps on first canopy: 57%
>=200 jumps on first canopy: 43%

New container:
<200 jumps on first canopy: 33%
>=200 jumps on first canopy: 67%

Used canopy:
<200 jumps on first canopy: 61%
>=200 jumps on first canopy: 39%

New canopy:
<200 jumps on first canopy: 21%
>=200 jumps on first canopy: 79%

So clearly people that buy new stay on their first canopy longer than people that buy used. This doesn't mean much... the jump numbers could average 199 for used equipment and 201 for new equipment for all I know.

But also, when buying new, people probably often go a size or more smaller than they'd buy if they were going used.

So what do ya think? Was your canopy progression slower because you bought new equipment? Was it faster because you bought used? Did you buy something smaller because you were buying new and you knew it'd last a while, or did you buy something bigger knowing you'd get rid of it soon because it was used?

Dave

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Quote



But I started wondering... do people that buy brand new custom containers for their first rig keep their first main longer? How about brand new first canopy? Do they spend more time on it before they downsize?



More importantly, do they buy a smaller main than they might have bought used because they're more worried about losing money when they want something smaller than the first main?

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my 1st container was used, and I kept it for nearly 500 jumps and almost 3 years
my 1st canopy was new, and I kept it for nearly 500 jumps and almost 3 years
which was my plan

My 2nd container (and current) was new so too were the reserve and main, I plan on keeping the main for 750 - 1000 jumps. I plan on keeping the container for significantly longer than that:)
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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So I am reviving an old thread as this is my exact question right now. Even though I am a person of average build, I am having a hell of a time finding a used container that is not almost the price of a new container.

So I wanted to see if this poll still stands true, do people keep their new rig and canopy longer? Is this a better option to coerce yourself to not downsize as fast and truly learn how to fly your current canopy to the fullest that it can be flow.
WHY TIP TOE THRU LIFE TO ARRIVE SAFELY AT DEATH

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This was interesting reading. I was in a similar situation when I was shopping: I first priced out my ideal rig all new, then started shopping around for used. I found that used rigs in the size range I was willing to tolerate were only a few hundred cheaper. Or I would have to buy international which I wasnt comfortable with. For me, it was well worth paying an extra few hundred for something custom fitted, new, exact size I wanted, lower risk of getting a lemon or being scammed, etc. But I'm in the "fat bastard" category so the selection of used rigs was not as good as others.

It also depends what your long term goals are. Unlike most jumpers, I had (and still have) no plans to downsize - EVER. Thus it was much easier for me to get over the sticker shock of buying new because I plan to keep jumping the same canopy until it is no longer air worthy. At this point even if I unexpectedly lost or destroyed my main, I would replace it with the same size (maybe slightly smaller so i could change the vectran lines to Dacron).
Max Peck
What's the point of having top secret code names, fellas, if we ain't gonna use 'em?

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buying all new is out of my budget (by MILES), but the same question can be asked about renting vs buying a used set.

One of my reasons to buy a used set now (except for saving money and having a rig that fits and is always available) is that I won't have a reason to downsize.

Most jumpers I know have downsized agressively, with most starting on a 230 going to a 170 at ~1.25WL in 50-75 jumps.

I started on a 250 (2 jumps) and went to a 230 for the next 45 jumps, but a 230 is a 1.04 WL for me.
Am now on a 210 at roughly 1.14WL.

So I'm looking to buy a 190 rig which will be just over 1.2WL.

Renting, I'd probably be jumping a 170 before 100 jumps (at WL over 1.3) to not have to race others for available rental gear, while I hope that by buying a 190 now I'll have no desire to downsize before 200 orso jumps.

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I managed to find my 6'1" self a 5 year old mirage rig with no mard, but with everything else you'd want, an optimum 193 (9 packs, no rides), a pilot 188, and a cpress2 (5 years old, just serviced). Brand new that would be ~$7630 according to chutingstar. Bought it a month ago from the classifieds for $4100. Matches my jumpsuit and everything. Needs a new lineset but so does almost every used canopy.

Keep an eye out and keep an open mind towards more brands (Not talking argus, but if you're on a budget you've got to be okay with a V/C/Smart. Beggars can't be choosers). Also, keep in mind most people SUCK at valuing their used gear. Most people will ask far too much. Some people will post no pictures but might have great equipment. Feel free to offer people something fair and most people will immediately balk, but a month later you'll see them post the same rig far cheaper or come back and counter-offer when nobody else has replied.

Dropzone solutions on here and on FB usually posts gear on the high end of fair, but beyond that there's not really anyone that does enough used gear trading to know what anything is actually worth. I would say you should expect to pay ~4.5-6+K for a full rig made after ~2013, 4-4.5+K for 2008-13ish, and 3-4+K for anything 2000-2008. I didn't look for anything older than that. Also keep in mind there are budget systems like the vortex deal that could get you a complete new rig for ~5500. I'd rather buy used, but this is skydiving, make your own decisions.

At the end of the day, gear is worth what people are willing to pay for it. All we can see is what people are trying to sell it for. Negotiate with anyone and everyone, and be as much of a hard-ass as you want, worst that will happen is they say no. Just be careful about the actual transaction itself. Use some form of escrow if at all possible.

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WHYTIPTOE

So I wanted to see if this poll still stands true, do people keep their new rig and canopy longer? Is this a better option to coerce yourself to not downsize as fast and truly learn how to fly your current canopy to the fullest that it can be flow.



I think this falls in the "know yourself" category. Figure out what your goals are, what disciplines you would be interested in pursuing, and go from there. It's definitely true in my case. I bought everything new four years ago with about 160 jumps on student gear. I thought I would downsize from my Spectre 230 within a year or two, but the more I flew it, the less I felt the need to do so. Demoed a Storm 210 last year, which didn't do anything to change my mind. Still very happy with my rig at 830 jumps.

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First thank you all for your input!!!

Most of the articles I see all talk about upsizing and not to focus on downsizing. I really enjoy the canopy ride down as to me this is part of the ride. Yea I get that there are going to be some times where it will be fun to get some good speed and maybe do some swooping, but hey so you do it with a bigger canopy and you don't get the real fast speeds that you could with a smaller canopy.

Like some of you are saying you still have your first rig some 500 jumps later!! What I am looking to do is buy a new container that at its max is where I will begin and have two size canopies to downsize into if I wanted to.

I kinda like the idea of the Mirage system with the secondary closing loop that it could possibly go from a 170 all the way to a 150. The 150 may, as Dawn at Mirage said, "Yes, the secondary loop will give you loop tension with the smaller canopies BUT by the time you get down to the Sabre-150 your rig will look like a Sharpei. :)". Oh did that make my day and she included a photo of a Sharpei on top of it.

If this works and say I do roughly 60-100 jumps a year, which seams about average for the common person, this rig would last me 5 years or more. So to invest in something that I would keep possibly for 500 plus jumps thats $4000 for the container, thats a whooping $8 a jump, not including the purchase of the canopies, which I will have to do some figuring on that as well.

I know that is all up to personal preference and budget, but like the poll was kinda leading into it seams that if you buy used you may constantly look into getting the jumps done just so you can get to the next smaller canopy and not truly know the canopy to the max and utilize it to its max.

Well like I said everyone has gone different paths to the same end result. If I could find the perfect used container I for sure would go that route and I still am looking into this.

Oh one more thing, some people are like you will learn what discipline you will want to do. How would this change my container if its free fly friendly? If I get one the could also be wing suite friendly what could it not do, or how could one do better than the other.
WHY TIP TOE THRU LIFE TO ARRIVE SAFELY AT DEATH

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