UntamedDOG 0 #1 January 13, 2006 I would like to officially denounce the United States Parachute Association. Skydivers and dropzones should not belong to the same governing organization. It is a conflict of interest. The USPA makes absolutely no sense. Skydivers interests and needs are totally different than that of a dropzone. How can one organization effectively represent two contrariant sides? Why on earth would skydivers want to belong to the same organization that collaborates and supports DZO’s? I’m surprised that the “Dropzone Group Membership Program” has survived this long without a major backlash. For this reason, I fully support the dismantling of the USPA. They are a monopoly. UntamedDOG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uponone 0 #2 January 13, 2006 You need to have a beer and get laid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UntamedDOG 0 #3 January 13, 2006 QuoteYou need to have a beer and get laid. An apathetic response. I have to remind myself, I’m dealing with skydivers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #4 January 13, 2006 So what are you going to do about it? "Calling for it" is one thing; making it happen is entirely another. I'd be curious to hear the specific steps that you think will achieve this goal of yours."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #5 January 13, 2006 valid points....... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #6 January 13, 2006 >An apathetic response. I have to remind myself, I’m dealing with skydivers. From your posts thus far, it sounds far more like you'd rather dismantle skydivers and skydiving than the USPA. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UntamedDOG 0 #7 January 13, 2006 QuoteSo what are you going to do about it? Calling for USPA's downfall is the first step. Rallying support is the next step, which I’m quite sure I’ve achieved. I know that everyone agrees with my viewpoints on this topic. The final step is to stop renewing membership. Initially DZO’s will try to pressure skydivers into renewing their memberships on the spot, this is a game that the USPA will play to intimidate us. Eventually one of the local dropzones will crack and begin letting skydivers jump w/out USPA memberships. A logbook should supply enough proof of skill and currency to decide if a person is capable of jumping. I’ve given the community it’s cure, now they just need to take their shot. UntamedDOG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #8 January 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteSo what are you going to do about it? Rallying support is the next step, which I’m quite sure I’ve achieved. I know that everyone agrees with my viewpoints on this topic. So it sounds like you've already sent petitions in to the USPA with the signatures of all the jumpers who support you. What was the USPA's reaction? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
licketysplit 0 #9 January 13, 2006 QuoteI’ve given the community it’s cure, now they just need to take their shot. GUN.....cock,load,pull trigger,BOOM------------------->UntamedDog Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #10 January 13, 2006 You seem to think it's a Zero Sum Game between DZO's and skydivers. I beg to differ. Promoting safety, promoting skydiving, and lobbying local and federal government on our behalf benefits the jumper and the DZ. I do not have an adversarial relationship with my DZO, nor do I wish to start. There are times there will be conflicts of interest, but usually not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #11 January 13, 2006 QuoteI would like to officially denounce the United States Parachute Association. Skydivers and dropzones should not belong to the same governing organization. It is a conflict of interest. The USPA makes absolutely no sense. Skydivers interests and needs are totally different than that of a dropzone. How can one organization effectively represent two contrariant sides? Why on earth would skydivers want to belong to the same organization that collaborates and supports DZO’s? I’m surprised that the “Dropzone Group Membership Program” has survived this long without a major backlash. For this reason, I fully support the dismantling of the USPA's “Dropzone Group Membership Program”. They are a monopoly. UntamedDOG That (with my minor modification) is the first intelligent thing I've ever seen you post.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UntamedDOG 0 #12 January 13, 2006 QuoteSo it sounds like you've already sent petitions in to the USPA with the signatures of all the jumpers who support you. What was the USPA's reaction? I would never bother to petition the USPA. Why would a capitalistic organization voluntarily choose to accept less money by eliminating it’s “Group Member” program? To suggest such a course of action would be unpatriotic. It would be more appropriate to fully extirpate this organization and start over from scratch. UntamedDOG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idlewild70 0 #13 January 13, 2006 QuoteYou seem to think it's a Zero Sum Game between DZO's and skydivers. I beg to differ. Promoting safety, promoting skydiving, and lobbying local and federal government on our behalf benefits the jumper and the DZ. I do not have an adversarial relationship with my DZO, nor do I wish to start. There are times there will be conflicts of interest, but usually not. What John said. Also, there is the insurance that is provide with membership. Also, without the USPA'a voice in DC, we would not have been jumping so soon after 9/11, and may still not be jumping. The uspa keeps our jump planes flying. The USPA might not be perfect, and if you don't like it, call your regional director or run for the BOD during the next election.-Fish Blue skies, Soft landings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillLockwood 0 #14 January 13, 2006 For the first time in eight years I did not renew my membership. The last straw for me was when the full board voted those involved in skyride out only to have the executive committee vote them back in which I firmly believe was not legal. In general, the decision of the full board of an organization can only be overturned by the membership. I have seen more and more frustration with the USPA over the last several years and I think that the fact that there has not only been no growth but a decline in membership is at least partially a result of that. You would be surprised at how many drop zones and boogies including the WFFC that you can jump at without a current USPA membership. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #15 January 13, 2006 QuoteI would never bother to petition the USPA. Just so I'm sure that I'm following your argument here. You "know that everyone agrees with [your] viewpoints on this topic" and yet you don't have anything documented? Call me a skeptic but I'd be more comfortable with some proof of this support. If "everyone" agrees with you, surely you're able to get signatures. Remember, you are asking people not to renew their memberships in the USPA. Showing people that you have the support of the majority of the membership can only help your cause. Otherwise, people may be reluctant to act alone. QuoteIt would be more appropriate to fully extirpate this organization and start over from scratch. So the USPA goes under. How will this alternative organization get started? What happens in the meantime, when the USPA doesn't exist and the FAA decides that there's a vacuum? I'd have to know what this "new world" looks like before I could decide to support it. I'm sure you understand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #16 January 13, 2006 Better men than you have tried and failed! ...and THEY were on the BOD!! Pretty much all of us know the problems.... come back with real solutions and I for one... will stand back and watch! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teason 0 #17 January 13, 2006 Shouldn't these ravings be in speakers corner? By the way, which DZO perspectives are not in cohesion with Jumpers desires? Should there also be a regulating body for instructors separate for the general skydiving populace? Hell, instructors make way more money than the average DZO and they decide whether or not you need to do another coach jump. Why the rich white anglo saxon skydiver aristocracy in there ivory towers are charging to instruct the masses. I'm sitting in my sears brand tent while those millionare instructors dine on pheasant in there Northface tents! They buy brand new chevettes and dodge darts on the backs of the workingclass student!Those bastards! Knowledge is a right! Oooops, I got alittle left of centre for a second...sorryI would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #18 January 13, 2006 Quote those millionaire instructors dine on pheasant in there North face tents! *** True..but it is Generic Pheasant...NOT name brand Pheasant! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #19 January 13, 2006 QuoteInitially DZO’s will try to pressure skydivers into renewing their memberships on the spot, this is a game that the USPA will play to intimidate us. Eventually one of the local dropzones will crack and begin letting skydivers jump w/out USPA memberships. But not without some form of liability insurance.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinfarmer 0 #20 January 13, 2006 If the USPA falls there will never be another legal skydive in the US. They are the only voice we have that fights for the rights of skydivers and every thing involved with them. I can't believe how naive some people can be as to not be able to see this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UntamedDOG 0 #21 January 13, 2006 QuoteSo the USPA goes under. How will this alternative organization get started? What happens in the meantime Infantile humans are often times very frightened of change. Why do you think the people of Iraq who are finally being granted the right to vote are appointing these religious fundamentalists to run their “free” government? We don’t want to be ruled but we subconsciously want to be dominated. If the USPA falls, it will be like any other day. The skydiving community will not plunge into Anarchy. Everything will stay exactly the same for a few months. Then dropzones will implement their own principals and fundamentals into their student progression. These changes will be based on economic and demographic precedence. It will not be the “one size fits all” philosophy that you are all used to. There will be no black hole. The FAA still won’t give a damn about skydivers and we will casually fall off the map. We will have no need for an alternative organization. UntamedDOG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #22 January 13, 2006 Well, then, let me be the first to say "good luck with that." You shouldn't have too much trouble convincing the "infantile humans" to follow you. After all, we are but sheep, eh? I'm gonna hang with the USPA for now, being infantile and all. Maybe if I have an issue I'll talk to my regional director, or write a letter to Parachutist or boycott a DZ or voice my opinion at the general membership meeting. Till then... baaaah. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UntamedDOG 0 #23 January 13, 2006 QuoteBy the way, which DZO perspectives are not in cohesion with Jumpers desires? Safety issues, ticket price issues, student programs, gear rental prices, facilities on the dropzone, aircraft maintenance issues….the list goes on and on. Jumpers don’t always agree with DZO’s on these topics yet they are forced to belong to the same governing body. UntamedDOG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NelKel 0 #24 January 13, 2006 The FAA still won’t give a damn about skydivers and we will casually fall off the map. <<<< So I guess it will be up to thoes who own CASA's, Skyvans, Otters, and the like to single handedly petiton the TSA for exemption the next time the require any aircraft that carries more that 20 passengers to be ramp checked before each and every takeoff. Sole responsibility will fall upon the owners of aircraft to meet the new requirments, all the exemption that we operate under will no longer be in place because there will no longer be a governing body to self-regulate. Just a thought _________________________________________ Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #25 January 13, 2006 I have an idea. Why don't you open a non-USPA DZ? Put it right down the street from a big USPA affiliated DZ, so you can make the case that non-USPA DZs are better for jumpers. Of course, it should end up being obvious anyway. Let us know and we can come check it out when you have it up and running. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
